Why is a Blue label better than a Purple?

[joe_collector]

[i guess I just don't agree that collectors are as stupid as all that.

 

So why are sellers and dealers so adamant that The Color Purple is the main reason why restored books sell for lower prices?

 

Doesn't that bizarro theory entail a greater amount of stupidity on the buyer?

[uclapeterg]

[i guess I just don't agree that collectors are as stupid as all that.

 

So why are sellers and dealers so adamant that The Color Purple is the main reason why restored books sell for lower prices?

 

Doesn't that bizarro theory entail a greater amount of stupidity on the buyer?

 

It's like they are saying that people think purple=bad, and they are saying that people are smart enough to now know the difference.

[joe_collector]

It's like they are saying that people think purple=bad, and they are saying that people are smart enough to now know the difference.

 

Yeah, if these can't even understand a basic color scheme, they must be pretty friggin stupid.

[action1kid]

the more fun 52 should get a significant premium over the adventure 40.there levels of restoration are NOT close. it only has a dot of work![MORE FUN 52] THE ADV 40 WORK IS ALONG THE SPINE WITH MORE THAN JUST A DOT OD WORK!

no way does that adv 40 deserve a blue label and cgc agrees with me.

 

your trying to close the gap between these two books when there is a significant difference.

of course im for a numerical system for restored books[but with a purple label.]

i think that totally unrestored books [which the more fun 52 is not] should have there own color since they are the pinnicle of the hobby and the ultimate collectors dream.your tryin to get the restored stuff up there in the same class with the unrestored stuff.

[FFB]

a1k

You have just proven my point here with this statement. The stigmitization is not caused by the restoration itself, the stigmitization is caused by the colour of the label.

 

My point of comparing the adv 40 to the more fun 52 is that under the current system both books were treated fairly,so why change the system...

Yes they were treated fairly!.Even with a dot of color touch the more fun 52 sold for 150k in a private sale.The adventure 40 unlike the more fun 52,while it did have minor resto, it had more than a dot of color on it!.but still in the minor range.that is why the adv 40 is in a plod and the more fun 52 is not.THE ADV 40 HAD MORE RESTO ON IT THAN THE MORE FUN 52.but at the top range of the minor resto catagory.

both books were treated as they should be under the current system and got there deserved price.

 

A1K;

 

Again, you have proven my point here.

 

Yes, under the CURRENT system, the books clearly did get their deserved prices as evident by the huge difference in prices realized since the colour blue is hugely different from the colour purple.

 

Under the new proposed system, I would expect the price on the More Fun #52 to drop significantly and the price on the Adventure #40 to rise by a small amount. In the end, the More Fun #52 will still clearly sell for more than the Adventure #40, but most likely by a much smaller margin (assuming the sellers can ignore the prior price they had to pay for the books). These new prices would then be more reflective of the fact that although the Adventure #40 clearly does have more resto on it in comparison to the More Fun #52, the actual difference was not that large since one was just on the wrong side of the blue/purple colour border while the other was just on the right side of the blue/purple colour border.

 

Bottom-line: The new proposed system will see prices much more closely reflect the TYPE and EXTENT of the actual restoration as opposed to the huge difference in the colour of the label. To me, it is a much much more fairer system to have prices based upon the actual books themselves as opposed to have prices based upon the colour of a label.

 

After all, we are all here to collect comic books as opposed to collecting coloured labels.

 

Lou,

 

I have read both posts and I don't think his posts prove yours.

 

Maybe you should read them both again. The amount of restoration on the Adventure #40 is essentially insignificantly more than on the More Fun #52 and a NM copy of MF#52 should be worth roughly the same as a NM copy of Adv. #40. The only difference really between the Edgar Church More Fun #52 CGC 9.2 Blue label with very minor color touch and very minor glue and the Edgar Church Adventure Comics #40 CGC 9.2 Slight (A) with "very small amount of color touch, glue on the spine of cover" is the label color -- and a bit over $50,000 in selling price. THAT is label stigma.

[action1kid]

Under the new proposed system, I would expect the price on the More Fun #52 to drop significantly and the price on the Adventure #40 to rise by a small amount

 

You apparently are not aware that the adv 40 has quite a bit more work done to it along the spine.Tthere is no way these 2 books should get closer in price under any system. Cgc has this one right! Uunder this system,which is a good one.

Ill tell you what,.lets give the blue label to the unrestored guys,you can have it.

but lets give the totally unrestored books[the jewel of our hobby the color it deserves.GOLD!

[FFB]

the more fun 52 should get a significant premium over the adventure 40.there levels of restoration are NOT close. it only has a dot of work![MORE FUN 52] THE ADV 40 WORK IS ALONG THE SPINE WITH MORE THAN JUST A DOT OD WORK!

no way does that adv 40 deserve a blue label and cgc agrees with me.

 

your trying to close the gap between these two books when there is a significant difference.

of course im for a numerical system for restored books[but with a purple label.]

i think that totally unrestored books [which the more fun 52 is not] should have there own color since they are the pinnicle of the hobby and the ultimate collectors dream.your tryin to get the restored stuff up there in the same class with the unrestored stuff.

 

What total and utter BS.

 

More Fun #52 Edgar Church copy notes: "very minor amount of color touch, very minor amount of glue"

 

Adventure #40 Edgar Church copy notes: "very small amount of color touch, glue on spine of cover."

 

You can see from looking at the Adventure #40 that there is hardly any color touch or glue on the spine. The color touch appears to be only at the bottom spine tip and there is a little glue that is holding down the top bindery tear. Don't lie or make stuff up to support your argument.

 

Link to front cover of Adv. 40 -- color touch appears to be a very tiny amount at bottom spine corner

 

Link to back cover of Adv. 40 -- glue appears to be holding down the top bindery corner.

[action1kid]

Your wrong.The amounts of resto are not the same.The adv40 has more of it than the more fun 52.That is why its in a plod...the confusion is they both say minor ,but the mf52 is in the lower scale of the minor range and the adv40 is in the upper scale of the minor range....i am for a numerical system for restored stuff,dont get me wrong.you can even have your blue label..The TOTALLY unrestored stuff[the true jewel of this hobby should have a color all its own too...GOLD !!.

 

 

I know, again i have proven your point...But respectfully,thats only in your own mind. Why do you keep saying that with every post? If i say good morning, will your knee jerk reaction be...again you have proven my point?

[action1kid]

you left out the most important detail. cgc agrees with me. its in a plod. that adv 40 has more work done to it than the more fun 52.i am not lying..thats why its in a plod. anyway, i am for your grading system[thats the discussion here.you can have your blue label.the numerical system is great. but the totally unrestored stuff[totally] should have the color gold.

[action1kid]

Get steve borock to come on here and tell everyone that the more fun 52 and the adv 40 have the same exact amount of resto and he made a mistake in putting it in a plod and i will openly give you an engraved opology..

[FFB]

Your wrong.The amounts of resto are not the same.The adv40 has more of it than the more fun 52.That is why its in a plod...the confusion is they both say minor ,but the mf52 is in the lower scale of the minor range and the adv40 is in the upper scale of the minor range....i am for a numerical system for restored stuff,dont get me wrong.you can even have your blue label..The TOTALLY unrestored stuff[the true jewel of this hobby should have a color all its own too...GOLD !!.

 

 

I know, again i have proven your point...But respectfully,thats only in your own mind. Why do you keep saying that with every post? If i say good morning, will your knee jerk reaction be...again you have proven my point?

 

I didn't say the amounts were the same. I said that your statement (that Adv. #40 has far more work all along the spine) is flat out false. What I said is a true statement. What you said is not. You say there's work all up and down the spine of the Adv. #40? Show me. You've got the scan now. The bottom bindery tear is not sealed and there is no flaking or tearing along the spine to seal except at the top spine tip, where a small bindery tear is sealed shut. The amount of color touch used is miniscule and got the "very minor" designation, which is exactly what CGC said about the CT on the More Fun #52. In fact, Steve Fishler described the work on the Adv. #40 as "a dot of color touch and a dot of glue" when he sold it to Nicolas Cage. So tell me, where is all of this work along the spine that you're talking about?

[FFB]

Get steve borock to come on here and tell everyone that the more fun 52 and the adv 40 have the same exact amount of resto and he made a mistake in putting it in a plod and i will openly give you an engraved opology..

 

Why should I do that? I didn't say they have the exact same amount of resto. I said that the amount of restoration on the Adv. #40 is essentially insignificantly more than on the MF#52. Fishler says "Adv. #40 had a dot of color touch and a dot of glue," which of course supports that notion. There may be a slightly larger dot of color touch or a slightly larger dot of glue on the Adv. #40, but do you think that if the More Fun #52 were in a purple label instead of a blue label that it still would have sold for over $50K more than the Adventure #40?

 

THAT is label stigma.

[FFB]

Get steve borock to come on here and tell everyone that the more fun 52 and the adv 40 have the same exact amount of resto and he made a mistake in putting it in a plod and i will openly give you an engraved opology..

 

Why should I do that? I didn't say they have the exact same amount of resto. I said that the amount of restoration on the Adv. #40 is essentially insignificantly more than on the MF#52. Fishler says "Adv. #40 had a dot of color touch and a dot of glue," which of course supports that notion. There may be a slightly larger dot of color touch or a slightly larger dot of glue on the Adv. #40, but do you think that if the More Fun #52 were in a purple label instead of a blue label that it still would have sold for over $50K more than the Adventure #40?

 

THAT is label stigma.

 

How about this statement from Fishler:

 

LINK

 

I have sold both the MH Adventure #40 and the Adventure #61. The Adv #40 is much nicer and has much less work. I think sold the #61 to the current owner about 17 years ago for about $1500. I graded the book at VF with color touch. The Adventure #40 have been owned in the past by all the major players and never been considered "restored". The major problem with the book is the puple holder. That book is a killer.

[action1kid]

More Fun #52 Edgar Church copy notes: "very minor amount of color touch, very minor amount of glue"

 

Adventure #40 Edgar Church copy notes: "very small amount of color touch, glue on spine of cover."

 

But there is a differnce,both have very minor color touch, but the more fun 52 has minor glue..The adv 40 does not say minor glue. ITS SAY GLUE. meaning more than minor..Im seeing that as plain as day thanks to you....Listen ,if you can get Steve to tell you these 2 books have the same amount of work done to them and he made a mistake putting it in a plod, ill give you an engraved opology.But ive always known the adv 40 had slightly more work to it..It even says it on the label if you look closely Cgc gave it a plod for that reason.Those 2 books do not have the same exact amount of resto

[FFB]

More Fun #52 Edgar Church copy notes: "very minor amount of color touch, very minor amount of glue"

 

Adventure #40 Edgar Church copy notes: "very small amount of color touch, glue on spine of cover."

 

But there is a differnce,both have very minor color touch, but the more fun 52 has minor glue..The adv 40 does not say minor glue. ITS SAY GLUE. meaning more than minor..Im seeing that as plain as day thanks to you....Listen ,if you can get Steve to tell you these 2 books have the same amount of work done to them and he made a mistake putting it in a plod, ill give you an engraved opology.But ive always known the adv 40 had slightly more work to it..It even says it on the label if you look closely Cgc gave it a plod for that reason.Those 2 books do not have the same exact amount of resto

 

If you will stop putting words in my mouth and will stop with these ridiculous straw man arguments, you can skip the engraved apology. Why is it that whenever you or Joe start to lose ground in an argument, you resort to recasting your opponent's argument into something other than what he has said? Or is the problem that you have poor reading comprehension and you actually think I've said that the two books have exactly the same amount of work on them?

 

Let me see if I can say this as clearly as possible -- I accept that the More Fun has less work on it than the Adventure #40. A smaller dot of color touch and a smaller dot of glue. But THEY BOTH HAVE AN ALMOST INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF RESTORATION AND ONE SELLS FOR $50,000+ MORE THAN THE OTHER.

 

Do you HONESTLY think it makes a difference that the bead of glue on the More Fun #52 is a tiny bit smaller than the bead of glue on the Adventure #40, or that the dot of color touch on the More Fun #52 is a tiny bit smaller than the tiny dot of color touch on the Adventure #40? Give me a break! As Fishler says about the Adventure #40, "The major problem with the book is the puple holder. That book is a killer."

[action1kid]

if the more fun 52 were in a purple label yes,i would get significantly less..yes,yes,yes.i do think that if the adv 40 were in a blue label it would have gotten 125k...but than i personally think any amount of colortouch should get a plod[with a numerical system attached.you can even have your blue label for restored.[as long as the totally unrestored stuff gets a gold label]

Why should a book with a tiny micro of color touch be held in the same class as a TOTALLY unrestored book.It shouldnt.if the restored crowed has the power to change there color to blue.the unrestored guys should get what they richly desreve to.the color gold.

[FFB]

if the more fun 52 were in a purple label yes,i would get significantly less..yes,yes,yes.i do think that if the adv 40 were in a blue label it would have gotten 125k...but than i personally think any amount of colortouch should get a plod[with a numerical system attached.you can even have your blue label for restored.[as long as the totally unrestored stuff gets a gold label]

Why should a book with a tiny micro of color touch be held in the same class as a TOTALLY unrestored book.It shouldnt.if the restored crowed has the power to change there color to blue.the unrestored guys should get what they richly desreve to.the color gold.

 

Thanks action1kid. I personally don't think that a perfectly unrestored Edgar Church book should be worth that much more than an Edgar Church book that is perfectly unrestored except for a millimeter square dot of color touch, but I respect the fact that you feel that way.

 

And as for uclapeterg, NOW do you see how Action1kid's post actually supported the "label stigma" argument?

[action1kid]

Yes,i do think it makes a difference at that level[price wise]

because the difference between it being totally unrestored[the more fun 52] is only a slight dot and that slight dot has probably knocked it down from being a 200,000 book.If that dot can make that kind of a difference from totally unrestored than that insignificantly amount of more resto the adv 40 has over the more fun 52 should make a considerible difference to.[at this level] Im for the blue label for resto with a numerical system as long as the totally unrestored stuff has a mark that clearly stands it out from the rest[and i mean totally unrestored. you have to admit that is the ultimate jewel in this hobby[or are you going to argue that its not].It deserve the color gold.

[action1kid]

Let me ask you this.Iif the restored crowd got the cherished blue label would you be ok with a TOTALLY unrestored book[i mean totally unrestored book] getting a gold label?.... Do you think the gold label will cause the new blue to be stigmatized. Do you think its just the very color purple doing the damage to restored books.Are you ok with blue for restored[with a numerical resto grade] and gold for totally unrestored.

 

 

a book with a dot of color touch should not be held in the same class as the totally unrestored book.

[uclapeterg]

if the more fun 52 were in a purple label yes,i would get significantly less..yes,yes,yes.i do think that if the adv 40 were in a blue label it would have gotten 125k...but than i personally think any amount of colortouch should get a plod[with a numerical system attached.you can even have your blue label for restored.[as long as the totally unrestored stuff gets a gold label]

Why should a book with a tiny micro of color touch be held in the same class as a TOTALLY unrestored book.It shouldnt.if the restored crowed has the power to change there color to blue.the unrestored guys should get what they richly desreve to.the color gold.

 

Thanks action1kid. I personally don't think that a perfectly unrestored Edgar Church book should be worth that much more than an Edgar Church book that is perfectly unrestored except for a millimeter square dot of color touch, but I respect the fact that you feel that way.

 

And as for uclapeterg, NOW do you see how Action1kid's post actually supported the "label stigma" argument?

 

The bad thing is, I don't see people sending in their blue labelled books with very minor restoration to be reholdered anytime soon.. which will create an even more confusing situation. I know, it's all about $$$$.. that point has been made clear.