INVESTMENTS: Is it time to realize the truth? 3 3

[lizards2]

10 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Apparently we had already laid out all the various issues in the other thread anyway so it is a moot point. 

In the meantime, I have to paint the trim. 

  Hide contents

Now, before @lizards2's  eyes bulge out of his head, I assure everyone, I actually have a can of paint and have to paint the trim around a kitchen cabinet. 

 

I was going to say, I have never heard it called that.  I like it though - I may have to use it in the future..., 

[Gatsby77]

2 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

This is exhausting to read through, could you just provide the page #s of the scrutiny on this company and the outline of a possible scheme in place?

It should be exhausting to read through, because some of the thread participants actually understood securities law.

But some basic issues identified with Rally Road's comic book offerings itself:

• The IPO price is always 20-30% above FMV. Overpaying by 20% is the same whether you spend $12 on a $10 equity share or $12,000 on a $10,000 equity share. So every "investor" definitionally starts in the hole.
• Illiquidity - you can only buy or sell shares for a few days every 90 days; otherwise, your money's tied up.
• Rally Road itself owns at least 20% - but likely 51% or more - of every asset, meaning a hostile takeover and forced sale is impossible - they have total control of the underlying asset - including whether and when to sell.
• Even worse, their fine print states you are buying the trading shares, but not really shares in the asset - giving you no claim on the underlying comic. There's no equivalent of an opportunity for a proxy vote. 
• Lack of transparency around Rally Road's administrative costs -- including staff, insurance and storage fees - which it takes off the top.
• Each "comic purchase" is set up as its own separate entity, meaning if things go south, that entity itself could theoretically go bankrupt, enabling them to shaft investors and pocket the difference, while insulating the rest of Rally Rd's assets.
• In a recent collectible sale (I believe it was the Jordan rookie card), Rally Road itself was the ultimate buyer. Read that again. Rally Road was the (minority owner /)seller, broker (it set the share price) and ultimate buyer. Not just on both sides of the trade, but literally setting the price too. Not. Sketchy. At. All.
• Lack of transparency re. the relationship between Metropolis Comics and Rally Rd. (In the TMNT 1 CGC 9.8 example, Rally Rd. bought the book from Metro for "$59,000" but really only $7,900 or so down, with the balance due post $65,000 IPO. So Metro's allowing them to acquire books with only 13% down. FMV at the time was just $52,000, or 25% less than the $65,000 IPO)
• No public transparency re. either comic book expertise or investing expertise on Rally Rd.'s staff. This may seem minor but recall one of the reasons CGC itself was successful was Steve Borock was a known - and trusted - quantity.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Gatsby77

[ygogolak]

5 hours ago, valiantman said:

Why am I a supporter of RallyRd?  For the same reason that I supported the return of Valiant Comics in 2012.  I knew it would happen someday - and I knew I wouldn't be the one to do it.  When it finally did... I was there.

...and how did that work out?

[Gatsby77]

38 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

...and how did that work out?

Ouch! Too soon...

I mean, to be fair, the Valiant relaunch has lasted longer than the original VH1 universe did.

On the other hand, the top-selling book for October, Bloodshot # 9, clocked in at # 163 on the list of best-selling comics.

[mattn792]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

It should be exhausting to read through, because some of the thread participants actually understood securities law.

But some basic issues identified with Rally Road's comic book offerings itself:

• The IPO price is always 20-30% above FMV. Overpaying by 20% is the same whether you spend $12 on a $10 equity share or $12,000 on a $10,000 equity share. So every "investor" definitionally starts in the hole.
• Illiquidity - you can only buy or sell shares for a few days every 90 days; otherwise, your money's tied up.
• Rally Road itself owns at least 20% - but likely 51% or more - of every asset, meaning a hostile takeover and forced sale is impossible - they have total control of the underlying asset - including whether and when to sell.
• Even worse, their fine print states you are buying the trading shares, but not really shares in the asset - giving you no claim on the underlying comic. There's no equivalent of an opportunity for a proxy vote. 
• Lack of transparency around Rally Road's administrative costs -- including staff, insurance and storage fees - which it takes off the top.
• Each "comic purchase" is set up as its own separate entity, meaning if things go south, that entity itself could theoretically go bankrupt, enabling them to shaft investors and pocket the difference, while insulating the rest of Rally Rd's assets.
• In a recent collectible sale (I believe it was the Jordan rookie card), Rally Road itself was the ultimate buyer. Read that again. Rally Road was the (minority owner /)seller, broker (it set the share price) and ultimate buyer. Not just on both sides of the trade, but literally setting the price too. Not. Sketchy. At. All.
• Lack of transparency re. the relationship between Metropolis Comics and Rally Rd. (In the TMNT 1 CGC 9.8 example, Rally Rd. bought the book from Metro for "$59,000" but really only $7,900 or so down, with the balance due post $65,000 IPO. So Metro's allowing them to acquire books with only 13% down. FMV at the time was just $52,000, or 25% less than the $65,000 IPO)
• No public transparency re. either comic book expertise or investing expertise on Rally Rd.'s staff. This may seem minor but recall one of the reasons CGC itself was successful was Steve Borock was a known - and trusted - quantity.

This list should scare anyone thinking of dealing with Rally.  This goes far beyond normal investing risk and into the realm of buying into ComicCoin.

[D84]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

It should be exhausting to read through, because some of the thread participants actually understood securities law.

But some basic issues identified with Rally Road's comic book offerings itself:

• The IPO price is always 20-30% above FMV. Overpaying by 20% is the same whether you spend $12 on a $10 equity share or $12,000 on a $10,000 equity share. So every "investor" definitionally starts in the hole.
• Illiquidity - you can only buy or sell shares for a few days every 90 days; otherwise, your money's tied up.
• Rally Road itself owns at least 20% - but likely 51% or more - of every asset, meaning a hostile takeover and forced sale is impossible - they have total control of the underlying asset - including whether and when to sell.
• Even worse, their fine print states you are buying the trading shares, but not really shares in the asset - giving you no claim on the underlying comic. There's no equivalent of an opportunity for a proxy vote. 
• Lack of transparency around Rally Road's administrative costs -- including staff, insurance and storage fees - which it takes off the top.
• Each "comic purchase" is set up as its own separate entity, meaning if things go south, that entity itself could theoretically go bankrupt, enabling them to shaft investors and pocket the difference, while insulating the rest of Rally Rd's assets.
• In a recent collectible sale (I believe it was the Jordan rookie card), Rally Road itself was the ultimate buyer. Read that again. Rally Road was the (minority owner /)seller, broker (it set the share price) and ultimate buyer. Not just on both sides of the trade, but literally setting the price too. Not. Sketchy. At. All.
• Lack of transparency re. the relationship between Metropolis Comics and Rally Rd. (In the TMNT 1 CGC 9.8 example, Rally Rd. bought the book from Metro for "$59,000" but really only $7,900 or so down, with the balance due post $65,000 IPO. So Metro's allowing them to acquire books with only 13% down. FMV at the time was just $52,000, or 25% less than the $65,000 IPO)
• No public transparency re. either comic book expertise or investing expertise on Rally Rd.'s staff. This may seem minor but recall one of the reasons CGC itself was successful was Steve Borock was a known - and trusted - quantity.

Thank you for explaining it more eloquently than I ever could.

[ygogolak]

58 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Ouch! Too soon...

I mean, to be fair, the Valiant relaunch has lasted longer than the original VH1 universe did.

On the other hand, the top-selling book for October, Bloodshot # 9, clocked in at # 163 on the list of best-selling comics.

It was less about the actual comics and more about how VEI has fared. DMG (owner) bought full control and ran into big financial issues to the point their stock was frozen on the Schenzen stock exchange. There are a number of people on here that are more knowledgeable than myself, including Valiantman.

Im just saying it’s a terrible analogy considering how things have gone downhill so bad.

[Buzzetta]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

It was less about the actual comics and more about how VEI has fared. DMG (owner) bought full control and ran into big financial issues to the point their stock was frozen on the Schenzen stock exchange. There are a number of people on here that are more knowledgeable than myself, including Valiantman.

Im just saying it’s a terrible analogy considering how things have gone downhill so bad.

Yes, it felt like Acclaim... felt like there were big things coming and then the car slammed into the guardrail. 

I was picking up anything to do with the Eternal Warrior as I have always enjoyed the character both in the current and future timelines. Then appearances became sporadic and my LCS owner stopped ordering a majority of the valiant titles due to some inconsistency and it has now fallen off the radar for me.

Bought some cool art though and two EW covers... so at least I have that going for me... which is nice. 

[kav]

[mattn792]

6 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Yes, it felt like Acclaim... felt like there were big things coming and then the car slammed into the guardrail. 

I was picking up anything to do with the Eternal Warrior as I have always enjoyed the character both in the current and future timelines. Then appearances became sporadic and my LCS owner stopped ordering a majority of the valiant titles due to some inconsistency and it has now fallen off the radar for me.

Bought some cool art though and two EW covers... so at least I have that going for me... which is nice. 

[KCOComics]

I just like comics. No interest in owning fractional shares of books I'll never see. 

I can appreciate not being able to pay 5 figures for a comic book. That's allot of cash. But I feel like if your a fan of this hobby it isn't all about big ticket books.  

Investing $1k in a share of AC1 that I won't ever see, smell or touch isn't nearly as interesting to me as spending $150 on a high grade House of Secrets 91.  A share of AC1 will likely outpace the return on a HOS91, but that isn't collecting comics. It's investing.  

[KCOComics]

Just now, KCOComics said:

I just like comics. No interest in owning fractional shares of books I'll never see. 

I can appreciate not being able to pay 5 figures for a comic book. That's allot of cash. But I feel like if your a fan of this hobby it isn't all about big ticket books.  

Investing $1k in a share of AC1 that I won't ever see, smell or touch isn't nearly as interesting to me as spending $150 on a high grade House of Secrets 91.  A share of AC1 will likely outpace the return on a HOS91, but that isn't collecting comics. It's investing.  

Ok - I'm suddenly aware my post is echoing the same anti rallyrd comments I made when this topic first came up.  I don't want to rehash that....  

I apologize. But I do really like HOS91! Adam's cover! Great story. I have 3 copies. If anyone is interested I will trade it for an Action Comics 1. No partial shares. 

[mattn792]

1 minute ago, KCOComics said:

Ok - I'm suddenly aware my post is echoing the same anti rallyrd comments I made when this topic first came up.  I don't want to rehash that....  

I apologize. But I do really like HOS91! Adam's cover! Great story. I have 3 copies. If anyone is interested I will trade it for an Action Comics 1. No partial shares. 

Even still, your opposition to fractional share ownership is only personal, not conceptual.  There’s nothing wrong with that.

Putting Rally aside, the concept of investing in partial shares of certain comics is by no means a dumb idea.  It just comes down to implementation.  No matter the protestations, an original copy of Action #1 is wholly a commodity, and being able invest in partial ownership of a copy will appeal to comic enthusiasts and regular capitalists alike.  

But until a reputable platform to do so comes around, it will largely remain a novel idea.

[KCOComics]

1 minute ago, mattn792 said:

Even still, your opposition to fractional share ownership is only personal, not conceptual.  There’s nothing wrong with that.

Putting Rally aside, the concept of investing in partial shares of certain comics is by no means a dumb idea.  It just comes down to implementation.  No matter the protestations, an original copy of Action #1 is wholly a commodity, and being able invest in partial ownership of a copy will appeal to comic enthusiasts and regular capitalists alike.  

But until a reputable platform to do so comes around, it will largely remain a novel idea.

You are right. If my Fidelity account offered a SA comics fund that took a blend of physical holdings and allowed me to invest in it, I might be tempted as a fan of comics. 

But I would treat it like other funds I invest in. I wouldn't want designated times I could sell, I would want flexibility and transparency like I get with every other fund I invest in. 

[valiantman]

I need everyone who took a shot at me, personally, in this thread rather than the ideas to send me their address via private message.  I need to ship you a broken broomhandle and some detailed insertion instructions. 

[kav]

I'm down for some shares in Woodgod.

[lizards2]

25 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I need everyone who took a shot at me, personally, in this thread rather than the ideas to send me their address via private message.  I need to ship you a broken broomhandle and some detailed insertion instructions. 

Thanks for starting this thread! 

I thought this thread brought out a lot of good discussion on topics that concern all of us.

Sorry about the rest  

 

[Buzzetta]

1 minute ago, lizards2 said:

Thanks for starting this thread! 

I thought this thread brought out a lot of good discussion on topics that concern all of us.

Sorry about the rest  

 

I finished painting the trim. 

[mattn792]

1 minute ago, Buzzetta said:

I finished painting the trim. 

The euphemisms keep flowing...

[KCOComics]

27 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I need everyone who took a shot at me, personally, in this thread rather than the ideas to send me their address via private message.  I need to ship you a broken broomhandle and some detailed insertion instructions. 

For what it's worth, I may disagree about RallyRd, but I appreciate the knowledge and information you bring to these forums.  You approach this hobby from a very analytical position that makes me think about the industry differently. 

So, hopefully I'm not on the list to receive the business end of a broken broom stick.