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Fake JPN Shining Gyarados?
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Started by Christopher M,

17 posts in this topic

Christopher M

Christopher M

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Posted

Hello - would really appreciate some feedback from folks who are familiar with this specific card.

I just purchased a Japanese Shining Gyarados, and it seems like the front of the card is more a 'sticker'. This is unlike any other Pokemon card I've seen, and would normally make me think it's definitely a fake. However I've been trying to research and seems like others have had similar, if not exactly the same questions on this particular card. 

Apparently they made this and the Japanese Shining Magikarp differently with glossy fronts? The front is definitely glossy. The holo pattern seems exactly like the legit card should be, and would be a pretty impressive fake. 

I was planning on sending this in for grading, but if it's fake I need to return and get my money back ASAP. 

Would really appreciate it if a CGC mod could weigh in. (I am certainly not expecting an official ruling on my specific card via the internet, know it needs to be in person...but if you have any insight i.e. "typically this card does have a different material for the front that does seems to be more 'sticker-like' " )

Detailed images/video here https://imgur.com/a/v8rk8BC

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Christopher M

Christopher M

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Going to bump this with one more link here https://imgur.com/a/e9oRJnK - photos video showing the 'wrinkling' of the card, and also another one showing the holo pattern extending past the main holo box onto the card. 

I'm really struggling here. The 'sticker' aspect seems so fake to me, but I keep reading how this card is actually a different, more glossy material than a normal card. I've never held any other Japanese shining gyarados to compare it to. 

For the record I am an existing customer who has spent $1k+ to date on CGC grading to date and am planning on sending in more cards soon. I am not expecting any sort of formal 'this is 100% real' or '100% fake' answers, from anyone CGC or otherwise. But any guidance would be appreciated. Certainly understand only a formal answer can come from paid, in person grading. Just trying to establish if this is clearly a fake and I should try and return the card ASAP. If I send it in for grading and it comes back as fake months later, I'm going to lose my leverage to dispute the transaction with PayPal. 

So far I have a seemingly pretty knowledgable person on another forum saying this *could* be consistent with warping from heat/humidity that other Japanese full art holos have had. 

On a seemingly less informed Facebook group many people are just saying "IT' FAKE!!1!!"

Appreciate anyone's help!

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geraldfordfan69

geraldfordfan69

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22 hours ago, Christopher M said:

Hello - would really appreciate some feedback from folks who are familiar with this specific card.

I just purchased a Japanese Shining Gyarados, and it seems like the front of the card is more a 'sticker'. This is unlike any other Pokemon card I've seen, and would normally make me think it's definitely a fake. However I've been trying to research and seems like others have had similar, if not exactly the same questions on this particular card. 

Apparently they made this and the Japanese Shining Magikarp differently with glossy fronts? The front is definitely glossy. The holo pattern seems exactly like the legit card should be, and would be a pretty impressive fake. 

I was planning on sending this in for grading, but if it's fake I need to return and get my money back ASAP. 

Would really appreciate it if a CGC mod could weigh in. (I am certainly not expecting an official ruling on my specific card via the internet, know it needs to be in person...but if you have any insight i.e. "typically this card does have a different material for the front that does seems to be more 'sticker-like' " )

Detailed images/video here https://imgur.com/a/v8rk8BC

Im not a mod but Ive handled Pokemon cards since the game hasbeen  released. Older Japanese cards are glossy. Especially the vending series cards. This card looks like its water damaged.

I dont believe its a fake. The texture is not off along with the foiling. It just looks like its peeling. Ive had lots of older cards that are damaged that feel this way.

And please get the hell off facebook lol. Those people are so clueless and hate everybody. 

And in terms of getting it graded, its not going to get a high grade no matter what since its damaged. I dont think its worth your time unless you plan to send it to consignment and have to get it graded. Its not going to be worth a ton of money no matter what, so if you bought it for resale, its not very profitable unless you bought it for next to nothing.

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Christopher M

Christopher M

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@mattyzeepgam- thank you so much for the reply!

ugh, agree with you about facebook. I've found some cool vintage cards for sale on there, but the amount of grown adults who are trying to scalp cereal boxes and McDonald's happy meals because they have a random crappy promo card is just pathetic. A lot of sketchy people on there lol. 

Agree with your insight on the grading, I'd get it graded just for confirmation it is legit, and also because I like the look of the CGC slabs. Shout out to CGC! This has been my 'chase' card for awhile now, but didn't feel like spending the amount required on a near mint one. Would just be for my personal collection. Understand it won't grade super high

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geraldfordfan69

geraldfordfan69

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2 hours ago, Christopher M said:

@mattyzeepgam- thank you so much for the reply!

ugh, agree with you about facebook. I've found some cool vintage cards for sale on there, but the amount of grown adults who are trying to scalp cereal boxes and McDonald's happy meals because they have a random crappy promo card is just pathetic. A lot of sketchy people on there lol. 

Agree with your insight on the grading, I'd get it graded just for confirmation it is legit, and also because I like the look of the CGC slabs. Shout out to CGC! This has been my 'chase' card for awhile now, but didn't feel like spending the amount required on a near mint one. Would just be for my personal collection. Understand it won't grade super high

The flippers I dont care about since everyone trying to hustle. I cant stand the lack of respect anyone has. People think just because they have an internet connection means that nobody is human and they can treat people like garbage. Most people on those groups are resellers and instead of minding their own business, everyone wants to attack each other and relive high school drama instead of staying in their lane. I tried using the Virbank group to move some products for market rate but too many tight wads with an attitude. 

And yeah I guess if you really want a CGC slab then it will pass grading. It will just get some low grade like a 3 or 4 probably. Maybe a 2 but Ive sent in some pretty banged up cards and lowest grade Ive gotten is 1.5 (which felt generous).

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alohaboyz

alohaboyz

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On 2/9/2021 at 4:34 PM, mattyzeepgam said:

The flippers I dont care about since everyone trying to hustle. I cant stand the lack of respect anyone has. People think just because they have an internet connection means that nobody is human and they can treat people like garbage. Most people on those groups are resellers and instead of minding their own business, everyone wants to attack each other and relive high school drama instead of staying in their lane. I tried using the Virbank group to move some products for market rate but too many tight wads with an attitude. 

And yeah I guess if you really want a CGC slab then it will pass grading. It will just get some low grade like a 3 or 4 probably. Maybe a 2 but Ive sent in some pretty banged up cards and lowest grade Ive gotten is 1.5 (which felt generous).

You have to look in the mirror and respect yourself first.  Flippers most likely have the same mentality as you and grade anything.

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Christopher M

Christopher M

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Update - looks like it is indeed fake. My submission just finished grading today, the other cards in the submission received grades, but no grade received for the JPN shining gyarados in question. I guess that means it was deemed a fake and will be mailed back to me? @PaulS. from CGC  can you please confirm? I need to issue a return/refund from the seller who sold me this card if it is confirmed to be fake. 

Edited by Christopher M
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Allcoin

Allcoin

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This is definitely fake, Neo cards were not glossy like this, it looks closer to the early 2000's knock off super glossy cards.

Here is a foil I just recently got graded in Japanese from the same set.
https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3765374006/

Here is a vending series card that is supposed to be super glossy on the front and back.
https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3765360005/

Though the card you have may be water damaged, There is no doubt in my mind it is a fake.

 

Here is a gif of a vending series common for reference as well

https://imgur.com/gallery/uRMq6nM

Edited by Allcoin
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PaulS.

PaulS.

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15 hours ago, Christopher M said:

Update - looks like it is indeed fake. My submission just finished grading today, the other cards in the submission received grades, but no grade received for the JPN shining gyarados in question. I guess that means it was deemed a fake and will be mailed back to me? @PaulS. from CGC  can you please confirm? I need to issue a return/refund from the seller who sold me this card if it is confirmed to be fake. 

Yes, the card is returned raw along with the Not Genuine label.

 

Paul

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Oreos

Oreos

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Interesting. Ive had the shiny gyarados and magikarp graded with PSA multiple times and they were always especially more glossy than the other NEO cards. I've also lived in japan for years and in all the card shops gyarados and magikarp were for sure more glossy... sure this isn't a mistake on CGC's part? 

Edited by Oreos
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Christopher M

Christopher M

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hmm thanks for your response - I didn't learn exactly what it was that deemed it fake. would love to learn from CGC! from my perspective what was the most strange was the front was 'peeling' off which obviously doesn't seem normal. But I've never really seen a water damaged card, especially not a water damaged JPN shining gyarados/magikarp so I don't have anything to compare it to whether that peeling is possible on a legit version of those cards

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