They're Still Out There! 22 22

[tth2]

7 hours ago, MasterChief said:

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

Regardless, if you're an investor with no knowledge of a hobby, are you going to want your money to be put into really esoteric books that might not be very liquid?  

If I were looking to diversify my assets into collectibles that I know little about, I'd want to know that the assets my advisor is putting me into are extremely well known and  liquid.  So if sports cards, then the Honus Wagner T-206, Mantle rookie card, Wayne Gretzky, Jordan, LeBron, Messi, etc.  If stamps, the inverted Jenny. 

Even if my advisor was extremely knowledgeable about sports cards and was able to make a strong pitch that the smart money was going into Carlton Fisk cards, I'd be leery as hell.  Particularly $456k going into a Carlton Fisk card. 

Expand  

Smells like another Jay Parrino or two have entered the hobby.

Perrino dropped a lot of capital on high-grade everything based solely on the lure of CGC grading and encasement in the early days.

IIRC, he didn’t last long. Liquidated his "collection" in a bubble bath of losses.

Parrino actually had the right idea because he understood just how much market dynamics were going to change.  Jimbo pointed out earlier how the slabbed comics market has completely tracked the evolution of the slabbed coin market.  Parrino just messed up on the execution. 

First, he relied on less than scrupulous dealers who saw him as a cash cow to be exploited unmercifully. 

Second, although he had the right idea to buy the highest graded comics and recognized what an incredible phenomenon the Church collection was, he got directed into a lot of lesser titles that said unscrupulous dealers and their clients were only too happy to have found a victim to unload on.  I remember being awed when I first saw the listings of the Church All-Flash run, and then I snapped back to reality as I realized it was All-Flash.  The flaw with his focus on the Church books was that most of the owners of the key Church runs had no interest in selling and he couldn't persuade them to sell at any price, which is something he didn't anticipate.  

Third, he exited too quickly.  

[Mmehdy]

39 minutes ago, szav said:

First attempted Promise flip!  Maybe the owner accidentally put in the BIN, or looked in their boxes and found a long forgotten CGC 9.6 they already had.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/phantom-lady-15-the-promise-collection-pedigree-fox-features-syndicate-1947-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/a/7244-93121.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

$33600 to $51,000 in a day...wow what a flip

[jimjum12]

2 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Third, he exited too quickly.  

... he quit "5 minutes before the miracle", as they say. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

 

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

I was pretty happy with the results of all of the books I consigned to this auction.  Would it have been nice to get a few more Promise-type multiples?  Sure, but I really can't complain.

Big Big congrats on all of your sales as you most definitely can't complain too much with those Church copies of Mystery Men.  Although it looks like you might have gotten only a bunt hit with the MM 3, it would appear to be a double for your Church copies of MM 14 and MM 16, along with a triple bagger for your Church copy of MM 19.  No idea if that Ducks book is yours or not, but if it is, then I would consider that to be a grand slam in the ballpark home run which nobody in their right mind would ever expect to see.  

 

16 hours ago, tth2 said:

I had been happy about consigning books into this auction knowing that the Promise books were coming out, because I figured the more eyeballs my consignments got as a result, the better. 

It definitely looks like you made the right call here. 

The only thing I found surprising is that I had assumed that your Berk Church copy of Mystery Men 3 would have been one of the Feature books in their Platinum session on Thursday since that is where virtually all of the big books go.  Like Brian said during the auction, I guess the Mystery Men 3 managed to score a nice Heritage catalogue cover shot this way with its move to the Friday session though.  No idea if it would have done better on Thursday, but $78K is still a pretty big number, although on a relative basis, clearly not in loonie bin common as dirt Transformers 1 territory.  

[tth2]

3 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

7 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Third, he exited too quickly.  

... he quit "5 minutes before the miracle", as they say. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I call it "Doing a Pete Best". 

[lou_fine]

16 hours ago, tth2 said:

Which doesn't answer the question who the buyers are, and where all this money in the hands of relatively sophisticated GA collectors suddenly came from, but I don't think it's a bunch of cashed up newbies.    

Didn't Mitch say way back in the beginning of this thread here that some of the big time dealers were planning to go hard after some of these books and were already in the process of putting big time dollars aside to scoop up a whole bunch of these Promise Collection books here?  

Then again, if he was basing this comment on his original estimate for this first batch of Promise books which was definitely far down the ladder, I am not sure if the dealers collectors would have been willing to go this high on these books for their own personal collection. 

[tth2]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

The only thing I found surprising is that I had assumed that your Berk Church copy of Mystery Men 3 would have been one of the Feature books in their Platinum session on Thursday since that is where virtually all of the big books go.

Heritage would allow only the MM 3 and the FC 9 into the Platinum session, but I insisted on keeping the runs together.  Getting the cover of a catalog and some full page listings was not a bad compromise, although to be honest I don't think which auction session or the catalogs matters anymore.  Everyone tracks everything and nothing slips through the cracks anymore, including in the weekly auctions. 

[tth2]

Just now, lou_fine said:

Didn't Mitch say

Mitch says a lot of things.

[adamstrange]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Didn't Mitch say way back in the beginning of this thread here that some of the big time dealers were planning to go hard after some of these books and were already in the process of putting big time dollars aside to scoop up a whole bunch of these Promise Collection books here?  

Then again, if he was basing this comment on his original estimate for this first batch of Promise books which was definitely far down the ladder, I am not sure if the dealers collectors would have been willing to go this high on these books for their own personal collection. 

I don't think any experienced dealer would think that there is an easy exit strategy for the Promise books at the prices they just sold for.  If a dealer was involved, it's because they are acting as an agent for someone who either doesn't know that there is no exit strategy, or doesn't care.

[adamstrange]

19 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Parrino actually had the right idea because he understood just how much market dynamics were going to change.  Jimbo pointed out earlier how the slabbed comics market has completely tracked the evolution of the slabbed coin market.  Parrino just messed up on the execution. 

First, he relied on less than scrupulous dealers who saw him as a cash cow to be exploited unmercifully. 

Second, although he had the right idea to buy the highest graded comics and recognized what an incredible phenomenon the Church collection was, he got directed into a lot of lesser titles that said unscrupulous dealers and their clients were only too happy to have found a victim to unload on.  I remember being awed when I first saw the listings of the Church All-Flash run, and then I snapped back to reality as I realized it was All-Flash.  The flaw with his focus on the Church books was that most of the owners of the key Church runs had no interest in selling and he couldn't persuade them to sell at any price, which is something he didn't anticipate.  

Third, he exited too quickly.  

Parino wanted to be on the ground floor of a new slab-based comics market that would operate like the coin market.  The problem is that the comic market evolved much more slowly than the coin market and he had to rely on the expertise of others to execute it.  Relying heavily on an agent in any antique/collectibles market is always, always, always high risk.  

[tth2]

I should mention how great it was to work with Heritage on the consignment, with a special shout out to Ed Jaster, who is always our go-to guy at Heritage.  They are such a well run and professional organization but at the same time very accessible and accommodating, even when they had a monster consignment going on at the same time.  

I live overseas so the logistics of shipping into the US is always more complicated with customs declarations and such, but once the consignment books were agreed, without even being asked by me, Heritage recommended which books to ship in which box and sent me the shipping labels with all the customs declarations already done for me.  All I needed to do was pack the books properly, print the labels and lug them down to FedEx.

[lou_fine]

9 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Heritage would allow only the MM 3 and the FC 9 into the Platinum session, but I insisted on keeping the runs together.  Getting the cover of a catalog and some full page listings was not a bad compromise, although to be honest I don't think which auction session or the catalogs matters anymore.  Everyone tracks everything and nothing slips through the cracks anymore, including in the weekly auctions. 

Besides the FC 9, I was actually referring more to the FC 178 which sold for a rather Silver Surfer 4-like $90K.  So, they were willing to take the MM 3 and the FC 9, but not the FC 178 which actually ended up being the surprising bigger dog out of these 3 books?    

Definitely nice to score the cover of an auction catalog, as it really helps to raise the profile of your book to the deep pocketed bidders.  

Big congrats to you again on all of your record setting sales here and I guess this means it's going to be time for you to pick up some more Hermes bags for your better half.   

[tth2]

7 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

Relying heavily on an agent in any antique/collectibles market is always, always, always high risk.

Yes, this cannot be emphasized enough. 

Because of the relatively small dollars available, particularly back in those days when the absolute dollars were even smaller but still today, the hobby (and every collectibles market) attracts a lot of hustlers.

[lou_fine]

16 hours ago, Funnybooks said:

The other "big" PL's all now reside in the collection of a prominent collector very much connected with CgC and Heritage.

Are you saying that James Halperin is now expanding even further out from his first love (i.e. coins & stamps) and now moving even more into vintage comic books and comic art?  

[tth2]

4 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Besides the FC 9, I was actually referring more to the FC 178 which sold for a rather Silver Surfer 4-like $90K.  So, they were willing to take the MM 3 and the FC 9, but not the FC 178 which actually ended up being the surprising bigger dog out of these 3 books?    

To be fair, none of the previous market benchmarks indicated that the FC 178, even though it's the sole highest grade copy and has been from the day it was slabbed 19 years ago, was going to generate a Platinum-level sale price.  I certainly didn't.

[adamstrange]

17 hours ago, october said:

Liar. I've seen Westerns in your collection.

[VintageComics]

58 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Parrino actually had the right idea because he understood just how much market dynamics were going to change.  Jimbo pointed out earlier how the slabbed comics market has completely tracked the evolution of the slabbed coin market.  Parrino just messed up on the execution. 

First, he relied on less than scrupulous dealers who saw him as a cash cow to be exploited unmercifully. 

Second, although he had the right idea to buy the highest graded comics and recognized what an incredible phenomenon the Church collection was, he got directed into a lot of lesser titles that said unscrupulous dealers and their clients were only too happy to have found a victim to unload on.  I remember being awed when I first saw the listings of the Church All-Flash run, and then I snapped back to reality as I realized it was All-Flash.  The flaw with his focus on the Church books was that most of the owners of the key Church runs had no interest in selling and he couldn't persuade them to sell at any price, which is something he didn't anticipate.  

Third, he exited too quickly.  

And his exit was apparently because he had another massive investment opportunity which from what I heard, dwarfed his opportunity in comics.

19 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Are you saying that James Halperin is now expanding even further out from his first love (i.e. coins & stamps) and now moving even more into vintage comic books and comic art?  

Jim has always been a comics collector.

[lou_fine]

9 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

29 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Are you saying that James Halperin is now expanding even further out from his first love (i.e. coins & stamps) and now moving even more into vintage comic books and comic art?  

Jim has always been a comics collector.

I meant even more so than before.  

[lou_fine]

28 minutes ago, tth2 said:

To be fair, none of the previous market benchmarks indicated that the FC 178, even though it's the sole highest grade copy and has been from the day it was slabbed 19 years ago, was going to generate a Platinum-level sale price.  I certainly didn't.

I guess the boys at Heritage are not aware of your magic touch and did not know that you could single handily pulled the entire Ducks market out of the deep freeze where it had seemingly been for the past decade.  

And if I remember correctly, wasn't this right after you had sold off your first big batch of Duck books right at the top of the Ducks market back then, and now you've returned to set brand new all-time highs on a couple Ducks books which you must have held back.  

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

I live overseas so the logistics of shipping into the US is always more complicated with customs declarations and such, but once the consignment books were agreed, without even being asked by me, Heritage recommended which books to ship in which box and sent me the shipping labels with all the customs declarations already done for me.  All I needed to do was pack the books properly, print the labels and lug them down to FedEx.

Being the big time customer/consignor that you are, I hope that they didn't put their FedEx account charges back onto your invoice?  

From what I heard, CC also provides the exact same complimentary service for their out of country consignors using their FedEx account which makes the entire shipping and Customs declaration process pretty much seamless for their consignors. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by lou_fine