They're Still Out There! 22 22

[Mmehdy]

28 minutes ago, buttock said:

It's also very presumptive to assume that every book that's not 9.8 was damaged by pressing.  I mean, these are 70-80 years old.  Most of them didn't make it to the newsstand in 9.8.  

I agree so it looks like out buyer could be have specially targeted the best condition copy on the newsstand, especially later in the collection. 

[Rip]

3 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

If they wanted to have the books pressed, I think that it could have been done more judiciously. Is there a way to press a book without the risk of popping the staple? Can the staple be removed before pressing and then put back in after pressing without resulting in a PLOD? 

 

Yes some who press do remove the staples first and completely take the book apart, then put it back together. It won't be a PLOD.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Rip

[batman_fan]

1 hour ago, buttock said:

It's also very presumptive to assume that every book that's not 9.8 was damaged by pressing.  I mean, these are 70-80 years old.  Most of them didn't make it to the newsstand in 9.8.  

100% agree.  Any consideration of whether a book was damaged by pressing is an assumption unless before and after images exist that clearly show the damage done.

[jimbo_7071]

3 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

100% agree.  Any consideration of whether a book was damaged by pressing is an assumption unless before and after images exist that clearly show the damage done.

Do you know of another way in which the staple to the Cap 46 would become embedded in the book? I have been collecting since 1984 (GA since 1985), and I never saw that defect prior to the CPR craze. I saw plenty of covers detached from staples, but I never saw a staple that had sunken into a book.

[buttock]

2 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Do you know of another way in which the staple to the Cap 46 would become embedded in the book? I have been collecting since 1984 (GA since 1985), and I never saw that defect prior to the CPR craze. I saw plenty of covers detached from staples, but I never saw a staple that had sunken into a book.

By definition, the staple has to be pressed into the book to staple it together.  I've seen countless unpressed books from all eras where the staple is recessed.  If you haven't seen that, then you simply haven't been looking.  

[adamstrange]

8 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

 I saw plenty of covers detached from staples, but I never saw a staple that had sunken into a book.

I have, including a number from untouched pedigrees that came out prior to slabbing and press-o-mania.

[batman_fan]

9 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

I have, including a number from untouched pedigrees that came out prior to slabbing and press-o-mania.

This is likely why CGC doesn’t downgrade for the defect.  That said, there was a series of SA books posted with before and after images that showed a book got from visible staples to invisible staples a while back.

[jimjum12]

29 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Do you know of another way in which the staple to the Cap 46 would become embedded in the book? I have been collecting since 1984 (GA since 1985), and I never saw that defect prior to the CPR craze. I saw plenty of covers detached from staples, but I never saw a staple that had sunken into a book.

You've apparently never bought a Fantastic Four 51 off the rack. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

... it's called an "impacted staple" and is a production defect occurring during the stapling process.

[Mmehdy]

It has been confirmed on the "Promise" win postings  that HA indeed give you 90% of the total auction proceeds if you re-auction with them. I think HA knows a couple of things we do not. One, that a large % of these books will not be on the market for a long time. That very savvy GA collectors will be the owners and that in addition to "Promise" the other super rare and great material might be consigned as well, sort of a win-win proposition. Second, there is a real possibility  that some of these books are going into a future   "museum"  situation in LA. Those will be gone forever. I also see Ha having the possibility of lining up  number of collectors who will buy outright those books once reoffered to Ha with their usual 10% commission so do not be surprised if a large number of potential re-sales never hit the auction block. The late comers to the collection are gonna hit HA up as well as "Buy it now" functions, but they will be agressive in trying to otain these pedigree GA books. 

 

[namisgr]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:47 PM, batman_fan said:

This is likely why CGC doesn’t downgrade for the defect.  That said, there was a series of SA books posted with before and after images that showed a book got from visible staples to invisible staples a while back.

I've been told on multiple occasions that so-called 'maverick' staples, which are already slightly indented into the cover, can be made worse by pressing.  Here's an example.

Same book:

Left - after being pressed

Right - before

  

Edited June 29, 2021 by namisgr

[Robot Man]

I've heard the same thing from a few of my civilian friends. They think we are outta our minds. They might have a point...

My daughter just bought her second house. Paid a little under what the Detective 27 went for. It blew her mind. Then she asked me if I had a copy?  

[Dr. Love]

And the Promises begin to make their way into the weekly auctions.  That of course had to happen to fit the 18 month time frame.

[jimbo_7071]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:19 PM, Robot Man said:

I've heard the same thing from a few of my civilian friends. They think we are outta our minds. They might have a point...

My daughter just bought her second house. Paid a little under what the Detective 27 went for. It blew her mind. Then she asked me if I had a copy?  

If you had said yes, there would have been some arsenic in your next bowl of Fiber One.

[comicjack]

12 hours ago, Dr. Love said:

And the Promises begin to make their way into the weekly auctions.  That of course had to happen to fit the 18 month time frame.

I would love to see a master list of this collection 

[Dr. Love]

Big boys no doubt get it. No way HA would expect deep pockets to keep enormous stocks of dry powder for extended lengths of time. The rest of us may have to pound sand, we'll see.

At least we can reverse engineer a cert in its entirety once a book is dropped, so theres that.

[VintageComics]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:31 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

On 6/25/2021 at 11:19 PM, tth2 said:

Unless Heritage know exactly which model of computer or screen you're using, and the settings you've got, how could they possibly ensure that?

You'd have an excellent point except for two things: 1) Heritage uses exactly the same images in their auction catalogs, ...so when color is blown out on my monitor it's usually blown out in exactly the same fashion in the catalog, which means it's not difficult doing A/B comparisons with books in-hand, and 2) this theory assumes that an artist and movie fan wouldn't have his computer screen ...regardless of manufacture... set up for high quality definition, color, contrast, gray-scale, etc., IOW, it's a matter of calibration, not model.

My point being that when color saturation is an issue ...and I'm not suggesting it is in every case... this is a problem for Heritage to resolve on their end, not their bidders.

It's nearly impossible to make an image look exactly like the book in hand.

The book in hand even changes how you see it depending on which sort of light you hold it in.

And it's far too time consuming to expect any dealer to optimize every single image when your inventory is more than just a few dozen or a couple of hundred books.

 

[VintageComics]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:41 PM, thehumantorch said:

On 6/26/2021 at 11:49 AM, batman_fan said:

For some reason CGCs in-house pressers seem to have more depressed staples than others pressing books.

Very depressing.  How is a press that depresses the staples an improvement?

You guys are assuming CCS depressed the staples. Any before pics of the book available to confirm?

Apparently, from what I saw (or thought I remembered seeing) one of the Promise books had depressed staples that CCS fixed. Or am I remembering that wrong?

[VintageComics]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:31 PM, buttock said:

On 6/28/2021 at 2:27 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Do you know of another way in which the staple to the Cap 46 would become embedded in the book? I have been collecting since 1984 (GA since 1985), and I never saw that defect prior to the CPR craze. I saw plenty of covers detached from staples, but I never saw a staple that had sunken into a book.

By definition, the staple has to be pressed into the book to staple it together.  I've seen countless unpressed books from all eras where the staple is recessed.  If you haven't seen that, then you simply haven't been looking.  

In fact, it's a common defect on some books which seem to have a weakness in the paper in that area.

I think FF #38 is one of them (as well as the corresponding Marvel books that were printed in that same month) as I've seen several of them.

There's a lot of force and speed used when manufacturing a magazine and the loose tolerances of printing presses used to make garbage, throwaway magazines are the real culprits. That's why we see so many defects on virgin books.

Not saying the Cap staples absolutely weren't damaged by pressing but I think that it's more likely it's a printing defect.

Edited July 2, 2021 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 6/29/2021 at 7:54 PM, namisgr said:

I've been told on multiple occasions that so-called 'maverick' staples, which are already slightly indented into the cover, can be made worse by pressing.  Here's an example.

Same book:

Left - after being pressed

Right - before

Edit, it may very well be FF #36.

It could also just as easily happen during shipping, from which we often see cover staples loosen or pop.

Unless you have pics before and after shipping it's just a guess.

Edited July 2, 2021 by VintageComics

[lou_fine]

5 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Any before pics of the book available to confirm?

Ummm............................any truth to the rumours that Lon has been given some time off (without pay of course ) to allow him to ponder his rather misguided and trigger happy decision to post  pictures of a few raw books from the Promicse Collection back in the first handful pages of thei very thread here?