Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[lou_fine]

On 8/22/2021 at 4:23 AM, KEY ISSUES Comics said:

On 8/22/2021 at 12:57 AM, lou_fine said:

Yes, being a long time comic book collector, it's really much more about spending time in the market, as opposed to trying to time the market. 

With a X-Men 1, I am sure you are going to do a lot better than the recent buyers who paid $44K for a copy of Transformers 1 or $63K for a copy of XM 94.  

Yeah, and in the worst case scenario I'm likely to break even, and have had the pleasure of owning them.

Yeah, it's important to think about your breakeven point and that's the exact and only reason why I initially ended up with 2 copies of XM 94.  

I remember picking up my minty fresh copy of XM 94 back at a local con and on my way out the door, noticed an equally nice copy at a substantially lower price point.  Needless to say, I was totally pissed off at myself for getting ripped off, especially knowing that there was no way in heck that I would be able to return that copy for a refund in order to purchase the lower price copy.  

After leaving the con and giving it some thought, I ended up going back in and decided to double down on the book in order to lower my breakeven cost, on the basis that this would then make it easier for me to find an even bigger fool than myself to sell the book to one day going forward, without me having to lose any money on the darned thing.   

Not sure what the marketplace will be like for the New XM books when it comes time for me to sell my one remaining copy as I either misplaced or lost my other copy, but hopefully the market won't hit rock bottom to the point that I can't cover the original cost for both copies.  

Edited August 22, 2021 by lou_fine

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:51 PM, lou_fine said:

Like you, I also don't have a personal stake in any of these Promise Collection books to this current point in time at least.  

As I have stated in another thread here, I haven't actually bothered to take a close look at these books myself to say with confidence that there's a consistent strong pattern of overgrading.  It's just that I've seen enough scans of some of these books from other boardies in the other threads along with PM's which I've received from boardies to make me question the apparent inconsistency in terms of grading for these books here. 

Don't really want to have ANOTHER thread here on the Promise Collection books questioning some of the grades since we've already seen a litany of these scans to date, but a perfect example would be this copy of Subby 23 here, along with a few comments from other boardies here:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/sub-mariner-comics-23-the-promise-collection-pedigree-timely-1947-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7244-96085.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

 

Actually, this book here doesn't really bothered me that much as it wasn't graded into the 9's at least, even though if this book was not part of the Promise Collection and not submitted in by Heritage, it probably would not come back with this high of a grade considering the clear visual defect.  Any bets that if it had been simply submitted in on a random basis by a no-name collector like me, it would not surprising to see it down into the 6's or possibly into the 7's at best. 

Then again, I am sure that they probably attributed this to a production related defect from a mouse found at the printing plant.    

This shouldn't influence anyone's bidding in any way.  Currently, my intention is to sit out the next auction, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take that for more than a statement of intent.  Everything I say after this should be taken in ernest with no motivation of any kind.  I have no dog in this hunt, so-to-speak.

Most of the books in this pedigree are noteworthy because of the "promise story" and because so many of them check the box of being preserved in higher grade than expected for comics from late WWII till the end of the 40's.  That said, there are serious questions deserving answers about some of the super high grades.  Just owning books from this Collection is a badge of honor.   That's why I'm looking at this from another angle.  IMO, it does a disservice to the collection that some of the grades "may" be embellished to an impossibly high ideal.  There may be reasons why this was done that folks here have considered or speculated about privately or it might just be a case by case example of enthusiastic or "overly enthusiastic" grading.  

Whatever the reasons, even if the interiors are immaculate in every way and bone white, cover damage can't be wished away or relegated entirely to production flaws.  The images don't lie.  Do some Promise books knock prior highest grade copy books out of that status? Yep, including some of mine, that's one of the reasons I'm very reluctant to make comparisons.  And in truth, I don't mind having the second or third highest graded copy at all.  Besides, if it were all about the money, the value of everyone's books should rise.  

What I do mind, is seeing books elevated in stature to an impossibly high status ...especially GA books with 9.8 designations... if they really don't belong there.  In my estimation, that poses a danger to the hobby long term.  

Do I "know" of examples of this?  I'd rather not say, but anyone with eyes could probably point to at least one questionable case, and there's the rub.

[Maskedvigilante]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:28 PM, Buzzetta said:

 

You would not happen to be or have ever been an Overstreet Advisor would you?  Asking for several friends. 

Ah sheet here we go again

[Maskedvigilante]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:28 PM, Buzzetta said:

 

You would not happen to be or have ever been an Overstreet Advisor would you?  Asking for several friends. 

Unfortunately no. 

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/22/2021 at 7:50 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

IMO, it does a disservice to the collection that some of the grades "may" be embellished to an impossibly high ideal. 

Not just the books. I'm guessing the story has been embellished as well.

I asked someone at Heritage how these books were stored, because these books are older than the Church collection and arguably in better condition. The guy treated me like I just asked if his mom would like a box of cancer. It's a legitimate question. I got no answer, just a regurgitation of the press release.

Someone in another forum claimed to have figured out who the brothers were. He said their story checks out, but that several hundred of the comics were purchased by a dealer in the early 90s, so the original owner part of the story is a bit of a distortion. It makes a better (and more lucrative) story for these books to have been "discovered" instead of purchased years ago and in the hands of a dealer for 25 years. 

 

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/23/2021 at 11:01 AM, MatterEaterLad said:

Not just the books. I'm guessing the story has been embellished as well.

I asked someone at Heritage how these books were stored, because these books are older than the Church collection and arguably in better condition. The guy treated me like I just asked if his mom would like a box of cancer. It's a legitimate question. I got no answer, just a regurgitation of the press release.

Someone in another forum claimed to have figured out who the brothers were. He said their story checks out, but that several hundred of the comics were purchased by a dealer in the early 90s, so the original owner part of the story is a bit of a distortion. It makes a better (and more lucrative) story for these books to have been "discovered" instead of purchased years ago and in the hands of a dealer for 25 years. 

 

 

 

Thank you. Interesting post, and very intriguing.  I finally figured out what you were doing there.  I was engaged in other business when posting earlier and my response probably appeared less than thoughtful.  In retrospect, you were obviously playing devil's advocate with the guy from Heritage trying to get an honest opinion.  I'm amazed at his response.  

I'd like to see more details and clarity on this and I'm not being sarcastic.  

Edited August 24, 2021 by Cat-Man_America
fixed for clarification's sake.

[evilskip]

Going way back to the OP's question, I only follow two comic book sales sites, Mycomicshop.com and Ebay. (I buy mostly from the former and use the latter as a guide for pricing). And in the past 18 months prices have rocketed and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

At MCS a lot of non key Silver Age books are hitting triple digits that were selling for around $25 18 months ago. I'm not sure if this is due to movies and tv shows, but there are times I feel like I'm being priced out of the market.

Last year I picked up an Atom #1 4.5 for around $150. Yesterday a 4.5 was listed for $245.

Avengers 12vg last year was around $25 to $35. The last vg I saw this year was listed at $80 before it sold.

Picked up a Showcase 55 gd+ and a JLA 21gd for $20 to $25 last year. The former just went for $75 in the same grade and JLA 21 passed that mark as well.

[Robot Man]

Outside of recent Heritage auctions, I haven’t noticed any more real spikes lately. Stuff is still high and holding. Haven’t seen much that is in demand actually go down. 

I have continued to see real high nose bleed prices on the bay though. I have also noticed a lot less cool stuff being listed. This might be a case for the higher prices. 

I suspect, higher fees, taxes and their “improvement” to the search system have taken a toll on the amount of quality listings ( especially on GA). eBay is NOT friendly to it’s sellers. 

It has always been probably the most popular place to buy comics but not anymore. 

So what is left? Websites? Pretty much a waste of time. Cons? Few and far between these days. My go to local flea markets are dead due to covid. The big auction houses? OK if you have real deep pockets and are willing to pay the additional cost in addition to vastly overpaying for the book itself. Not for me. 

Personaly, I like here on the boards. Good folks selling books with a fixed price. But good sales don’t happen all the time and can be fearce. 

I’m saving a lot of money and buying a lot less and smarter...

 

[B2D327]

On 8/23/2021 at 3:28 PM, Robot Man said:

Stuff is still high and holding. Haven’t seen much that is in demand actually go down. 

 

There are some exceptions but for the most part, I think a few sellers are holding back on a few titles until a Disney+ or mcu announcement is made. The potential for dollar bin books exploding overnight has been the incentive

[Robot Man]

I’m not talking about dollar books that people are holding on for speculation or flipping for $5-20. I’m talking about solid, in demand SA and GA books. 

I for one, am totally in the dark as to what fair market prices are on them. GPA, EBay and Guide prices are no help what’s so ever. 

I am seeing a lot less of these books being offered for sale at all. It is truly a seller’s market right now. 

If you like it enough to just pay up on gut or desire, you probably won’t get hurt if you hold it for a while.

The market is very strong and I see no letting up. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 8/23/2021 at 12:28 PM, Robot Man said:

Outside of recent Heritage auctions, I haven’t noticed any more real spikes lately. Stuff is still high and holding. Haven’t seen much that is in demand actually go down. 

I have continued to see real high nose bleed prices on the bay though. I have also noticed a lot less cool stuff being listed. This might be a case for the higher prices. 

I suspect, higher fees, taxes and their “improvement” to the search system have taken a toll on the amount of quality listings ( especially on GA). eBay is NOT friendly to it’s sellers. 

It has always been probably the most popular place to buy comics but not anymore. 

So what is left? Websites? Pretty much a waste of time. Cons? Few and far between these days. My go to local flea markets are dead due to covid. The big auction houses? OK if you have real deep pockets and are willing to pay the additional cost in addition to vastly overpaying for the book itself. Not for me. 

Personaly, I like here on the boards. Good folks selling books with a fixed price. But good sales don’t happen all the time and can be fearce. 

I’m saving a lot of money and buying a lot less and smarter...

 

eBay is still the best place to auction most CGC comics post-1975 by leaps and bounds over the rest.  Cheaper sellers fees over $2500 as well, and dont have to wait a month to get paid.  eBay has it flaws but for the bread and butter Modern CGC's is perfect for now even with the 10-13% total in fees.  Raw and pre-75 I agree with you. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[B2D327]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:37 PM, Robot Man said:

I’m not talking about dollar books that people are holding on for speculation or flipping for $5-20. I’m talking about solid, in demand SA and GA books. 

I for one, am totally in the dark as to what fair market prices are on them. GPA, EBay and Guide prices are no help what’s so ever. 

I am seeing a lot less of these books being offered for sale at all. It is truly a seller’s market right now. 

If you like it enough to just pay up on gut or desire, you probably won’t get hurt if you hold it for a while.

The market is very strong and I see no letting up. 

I totally agree and this was my point. Books like Silver Surfer 3 that was a book selling in the hundreds jumped ridiculously with the wandavision rumors and a few notable keys like ff67 and Thor 165 have skyrocketed. Add to that the jump in the White Vision appearance with it’s overnight turnaround and sellers are holding back just in case they have a gold mine in the waiting. Aside from lesser known/obscure books, I do see plenty of key appearances just at higher prices than most want to pay

[lou_fine]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:50 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

IMO, it does a disservice to the collection that some of the grades "may" be embellished to an impossibly high ideal.  There may be reasons why this was done that folks here have considered or speculated about privately or it might just be a case by case example of enthusiastic or "overly enthusiastic" grading.  

Not sure what you mean by "overly enthusiatic" grading here, as I guess in my rapidly old age, I simply can't see much visual difference between these two CGC 8.5 equivalent graded books here:    

 

 

Why, if I was Heritage, I would demand a full refund on my grading fees for this pisss poor job they did since this beauty of a book is at least a CGC 9.8 if the graders had done their job properly and had not taken all of the PRODUCTION related defects along the spine into account.    

Just take a look at this equivalent CGC 8.5 graded File Copy book from the 1930's with that horrid looking POST PRODUCTION "File" notation scrawled across the front of the book here and they have the nerve to give this book with that fugly looking defect the exact same CGC 8.5 grade:     

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by lou_fine

[WolverineX]

On 8/23/2021 at 11:16 PM, lou_fine said:

Not sure what you mean by "overly enthusiatic" grading here, as I guess in my rapidly old age, I simply can't see much visual difference between these two CGC 8.5 equivalent graded books here:    

 

 

Why, if I was Heritage, I would demand a full refund on my grading fees for this poor job they did since this beauty of a book is at least a CGC 9.8 if the graders had done their job properly and had not taken all of the PRODUCTION related defects along the spine into account.    

Just take a look at this equivalent CGC 8.5 graded File Copy book from the 1930's with that horrid looking POST PRODUCTION "File" notation scrawled across the front of the book here and they have the nerve this book with this fugly defect the exact same CGC 8.5 grade:     

 

What do you think about the new Heritage scandal?  

 

[WolverineX]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:15 PM, lou_fine said:

Yeah, it's important to think about your breakeven point and that's the exact and only reason why I initially ended up with 2 copies of XM 94.  

I remember picking up my minty fresh copy of XM 94 back at a local con and on my way out the door, noticed an equally nice copy at a substantially lower price point.  Needless to say, I was totally pissed off at myself for getting ripped off, especially knowing that there was no way in heck that I would be able to return that copy for a refund in order to purchase the lower price copy.  

After leaving the con and giving it some thought, I ended up going back in and decided to double down on the book in order to lower my breakeven cost, on the basis that this would then make it easier for me to find an even bigger fool than myself to sell the book to one day going forward, without me having to lose any money on the darned thing.   

Not sure what the marketplace will be like for the New XM books when it comes time for me to sell my one remaining copy as I either misplaced or lost my other copy, but hopefully the market won't hit rock bottom to the point that I can't cover the original cost for both copies.  

How long ago did you buy those X94s?

[lou_fine]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:24 PM, Wolverinex said:

What do you think about the new Heritage scandal?  

 

Same old, same old................nothing new to see here...................rinse and repeat!!!   

[lou_fine]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:25 PM, Wolverinex said:

How long ago did you buy those X94s?

Well, based upon that rip-off extortionist price which I had to pay for that initial first copy, I assume it must have been approaching the late 70's.  

Especially when I paid that first seller more than triple what I ended up paying for an equivalent condition copy from the second seller.    

Edited August 24, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On the other hand, maybe it's just my bad as there must be at least 2 people (well okay, only 1 if Jimmy boy himself is the other bidder here  ) who also must think these are truly production flaws and the book is actually undergraded and they've got themselves a steal of a deal here.    

Especially since this bidding battle last night must have been long and hard fought as this Promise Collection pedigree copy ended up selling for a piddly $10,800 or just over 40X its condition guide value of a whopping $268.    

[lou_fine]

On 8/23/2021 at 4:43 PM, B2D327 said:

I totally agree and this was my point. Books like Silver Surfer 3 that was a book selling in the hundreds jumped ridiculously with the wandavision rumors and a few notable keys like ff67 and Thor 165 have skyrocketed.

 

On 8/23/2021 at 2:37 PM, Robot Man said:

The market is very strong and I see no letting up. 

I would certainly hope so, and especially for the Silver Surfer books, as I've already got my fingers crossed for the.  

So, are you really saying that Silver Surfer 4 will be one of the next ones to hit 6-figures, considering that this copy here sold for $90K in the last Heritage Auction:      

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-silver-surfer-4-marvel-1969-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7244-91017.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

[B2D327]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:43 AM, lou_fine said:

 

I would certainly hope so, and especially for the Silver Surfer books, as I've already got my fingers crossed for the.  

So, are you really saying that Silver Surfer 4 will be one of the next ones to hit 6-figures, considering that this copy here sold for $90K in the last Heritage Auction:      

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-silver-surfer-4-marvel-1969-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7244-91017.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Finding a buyer willing to spend that kind of scratch is gonna be very limited but possible depending on the other 23 on the census and those may not be pedigree copies making this one the outlier. I don’t see it happening anytime soon but I wouldn’t be surprised with how crazy things have gotten.

The number 3 I referred to was from the Mephisto/Wandavision rumors where the price spiked but leveled off recently. It may actually heat up again with the next Spiderman movie taking some elements from the “One more day” storyline fueling rumors again