Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[Krismusic]

On 10/17/2022 at 11:11 AM, lou_fine said:

Although that's the way it's supposed to work, a lot of long term collectors just wished they could have had the option to place their vintage comic books into tax free financial investment shelters.  Especially since the majority of them have significantly outperformed the equity investment markets where we have seen some of the former once red hot Nasdaq speculative stocks drop by as much as 80% from their recent highs of last year.    

Yup. Just the way life goes I guess sometimes you win sometimes you lose… the only important thing is that the journey is fun and memorable … cheers 

[lou_fine]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:52 AM, Krismusic said:

Yup. Just the way life goes I guess sometimes you win sometimes you lose… the only important thing is that the journey is fun and memorable … cheers 

Yes indeed as the equity markets basically serves only one purpose and can at times be fraught with stressful volatility and high risk. 

Vintage comic book collecting on the other hand can be the absolute best of both worlds by providing you with not only a lifetime of fun and enjoyment, but also an unexpected bonus financial payoff at the end.    

[Vixom]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:37 AM, paqart said:

It seems to me that practically every comic or page of original art I've ever bought has climbed in price considerably since the day I first bought it. That is as true of the worthless when I bought them Fourth World comics as the cheap as the dickens pages of John Byrne Wonder Woman pages I bought by the handful in 2005. I don't know if I've ever had any comic related collectible go down relative to what I paid, though some haven't advanced as far as quickly. My Hulk #181, Werewolf by Night 32, and Star Wars #1 are hard to beat for crazy increases in price but even on the low end, like the Kirby Fourth World comics, or Thun'Da #1, or just about anything else, they've all gone up. For the record, I don't have any of those comics today, after selling them long ago.

I think the key is to know when not to buy. There are plenty of things I shy away from but could afford if I felt like it, because they seem overpriced. I'm sure I'm wrong about that sometimes but staying in my comfort zone reduces the chance of losing value later. I do break the rules sometimes, so we'll see how that works out. Still, I thought I'd screwed up a couple of times about 2 years ago when I started buying again but in every case, the comics have gone up considerably in value since I bought them.

My biggest concern when I started buying newsstands was that other collectors wouldn't figure out how rare they are. I didn't set out to buy a couple thousand post-2000 newsstands but when I saw the cost to rarity ratio, I decided to stop work on my GA and SA collections to concentrate on newsstands. The reason there is that the GA/SA prices seemed relatively static, so it seemed to me that even if prices went up on those items while I was buying newsstands, the newsstands would go up by more. Meaning, if I wanted to buy them at all, I should get them while I could, and if I had to, could sell some for a profit to get the GA and SA comics I really wanted.

The jury is still out on newsstands in the sense that prices haven't yet reached a level that reflects their actual marketplace availability. Prices are higher than directs but they aren't proportionate yet. That is what I am waiting for. We'll see if/when it happens. The thing that goes through my mind whenever I think about this is that I can find a Hulk #181 for sale any day of the week but many newsstands are noseeums for months or years on end. Even better, almost every comic published between 1980-20013 (Marvel) and 2017 (DC) have newsstand editions. That means that almost every key in that time period has a newsstand out there. This is very different from the Marvel 30 and 35 cent price variants, for which there were only a few keys, like SW #1 and the first Sabretooth in Marvel Premiere. 

Another problem with newsstands is that the rarest of them haven't been around long enough to generate followings. Just like WBN #32, some comics take decades to be discovered. There are probably hundreds of them waiting to be found in the material produced over the last 20 years, but it may take another 20 before people start looking for them in earnest. In the meanwhile, I got most of the newsstand comics I wanted, so now I'm going back to BA and SA comics for a little while, with an emphasis on UK and Canadian editions.

I have nothing on the future newsstand market. My guess is price ratios increase. I can care less if a book is more rare because of a barcode but glad many people will pay significantly more. I wish they did away with barcodes, prices, logos and every comic was virgin covers. 

[paqart]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:34 PM, Thisisrequired said:

I have nothing on the future newsstand market. My guess is price ratios increase. I can care less if a book is more rare because of a barcode but glad many people will pay significantly more. I wish they did away with barcodes, prices, logos and every comic was virgin covers. 

The way I look at it, rarity is a significant factor with the appeal of newsstands but there is another factor that is at least as important. The way I see it, direct editions were the beginning of the end of the best era of comic creation. They focused attention on comic book stores, which put pressure on publishers to make creative decisions designed to attract buyers at comic book stores. That meant comics for casual readers started disappearing. My favorite comics are the Barks duck comics, Eisner's Spirit, EC's anthology war stories, DC's anthology horror, and some of the better romance comics from the 50's. In other words, no superheroes. 

I like the idea of making comics for casual readers, something that is done very successfully in Japan, so I like the idea of having a connection to that market via the barcode. I also like getting the Mark Jeweler's variants because I like the story that goes with them: bought at military PX's around the world and somehow survived the trip to get all the way back to the US and into my hands. This is the same reason I like covers on SA comics with newsstand date stamps on them. I don't look at the aesthetics of them, or the barcode, but the history.

[Vixom]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:14 AM, Krismusic said:

Oh I don’t by for investments I have mutual funds, stocks and rrsp for that, I am a collector though, but haven’t sold a single book; although I have considered selling some books to get some grails that’s are now starting to become out of reach….. 

I loved comics for investment. Not so much anymore. I still have some I target but nothing like the last decade. Have some books I would like back but don't believe they will out produce other options. Increasing wealth is my favorite hobby so the comics will have to wait. Life is short so if you want them buy them. I will wait. Best case I find a time I have nowhere to put money or things get so bad people dump comics. Worst case I pay more for the books but with inflated dollars from better profits. 

[Vixom]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:50 PM, paqart said:

The way I look at it, rarity is a significant factor with the appeal of newsstands but there is another factor that is at least as important. The way I see it, direct editions were the beginning of the end of the best era of comic creation. They focused attention on comic book stores, which put pressure on publishers to make creative decisions designed to attract buyers at comic book stores. That meant comics for casual readers started disappearing. My favorite comics are the Barks duck comics, Eisner's Spirit, EC's anthology war stories, DC's anthology horror, and some of the better romance comics from the 50's. In other words, no superheroes. 

I like the idea of making comics for casual readers, something that is done very successfully in Japan, so I like the idea of having a connection to that market via the barcode. I also like getting the Mark Jeweler's variants because I like the story that goes with them: bought at military PX's around the world and somehow survived the trip to get all the way back to the US and into my hands. This is the same reason I like covers on SA comics with newsstand date stamps on them. I don't look at the aesthetics of them, or the barcode, but the history.

I loved getting comics at a drug store. Seems like missed opportunity to keep or grow your base. If the cover looks the same I go with cheapest option. So prefer direct. Better yet it's restored. Qualified as well is even better. If it's a modern book give me the reprint. Hopefully the reprint is so close or in such demand I can sell it for hundreds and have nothing. Hate true believers though. Can't sell them and logo turns me off. 

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:50 PM, paqart said:

The way I look at it, rarity is a significant factor with the appeal of newsstands but there is another factor that is at least as important. The way I see it, direct editions were the beginning of the end of the best era of comic creation. They focused attention on comic book stores, which put pressure on publishers to make creative decisions designed to attract buyers at comic book stores. That meant comics for casual readers started disappearing. My favorite comics are the Barks duck comics, Eisner's Spirit, EC's anthology war stories, DC's anthology horror, and some of the better romance comics from the 50's. In other words, no superheroes. 

I like the idea of making comics for casual readers, something that is done very successfully in Japan, so I like the idea of having a connection to that market via the barcode. I also like getting the Mark Jeweler's variants because I like the story that goes with them: bought at military PX's around the world and somehow survived the trip to get all the way back to the US and into my hands. This is the same reason I like covers on SA comics with newsstand date stamps on them. I don't look at the aesthetics of them, or the barcode, but the history.

I've never heard the case for newsstand comics made so well.  Thanks for this.

Personally I have always collected direct editions exclusively.  Maybe it's because I started collecting in 1984, and the comic book store experience was so influential on my collecting.  Back in the early 1980s, there were three places that felt like walking directly into heaven for pre-teen / early-teen me:

• A video game arcade
• A comic book store
• A "D&D store" (where I could buy all the books, miniatures, etc.)

My greatest recurring dream from that period in my life (aside from the NSFW one with Madonna in it) was the one where I was in a store full of endless shelves full of D&D modules I'd never seen before.  No matter how many of those I bought and read from cover to cover, I could never ever get enough.

[seanlinc]

On 10/17/2022 at 5:56 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I've never heard the case for newsstand comics made so well.  Thanks for this.

Personally I have always collected direct editions exclusively.  Maybe it's because I started collecting in 1984, and the comic book store experience was so influential on my collecting.  Back in the early 1980s, there were three places that felt like walking directly into heaven for pre-teen / early-teen me:

• A video game arcade
• A comic book store
• A "D&D store" (where I could buy all the books, miniatures, etc.)

My greatest recurring dream from that period in my life (aside from the NSFW one with Madonna in it) was the one where I was in a store full of endless shelves full of D&D modules I'd never seen before.  No matter how many of those I bought and read from cover to cover, I could never ever get enough.

Damn Lou Arcades, Comic books and D&D was pretty much my life from say 1980-83. I think I discovered girls in 84 all downhill from there.

[mjoeyoung]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:05 AM, Poekaymon said:

Will ASM 300 go back above $6000 in the short term?  Probably not--but, sorry to be blunt, who cares?  If you're buying for speculation, then I have no sympathy.  If you're buying for the love of the hobby, then a longer time horizon should be fine. 

 

I care. And I don't believe I'm the only one.  I don't relish wasting money EVER. Usually when people grossly overpay for something they consider that a mistake.  I don't know anyone who goes shopping and says "Give me your HIGHEST price."

I'm not talking about speculation.  I'm talking about new collectors getting into the hobby.  If you started collecting in 2021 you are looking at big, possibly unrecoverable losses on all your books.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.  Lots of people sell books to buy new ones.  These people are now stuck with eating their losses, or holding onto these books and not engaging in the hobby as much.

 As has been noted, ASM#300 is a big key for new collectors.  It may be the first big book that they buy.  How likely are they to continue buying expensive books after seeing the value of their first purchase plummet?

[paqart]

On 10/17/2022 at 5:56 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I've never heard the case for newsstand comics made so well.  Thanks for this.

Personally I have always collected direct editions exclusively.  Maybe it's because I started collecting in 1984, and the comic book store experience was so influential on my collecting.  Back in the early 1980s, there were three places that felt like walking directly into heaven for pre-teen / early-teen me:

• A video game arcade
• A comic book store
• A "D&D store" (where I could buy all the books, miniatures, etc.)

My greatest recurring dream from that period in my life (aside from the NSFW one with Madonna in it) was the one where I was in a store full of endless shelves full of D&D modules I'd never seen before.  No matter how many of those I bought and read from cover to cover, I could never ever get enough.

I remember buying the very first D&D books by Gary Gygax at the Vallco Village Fashion Park in San Jose. They looked like they were run off a copying machine, including the card cover, stapled together on the side. I didn't like spending $8.99 each for the couple I bought but it was the only way to play D&D back then. The year was, I think, 1978.

[paqart]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:33 PM, mjoeyoung said:

I care. And I don't believe I'm the only one.  I don't relish wasting money EVER. Usually when people grossly overpay for something they consider that a mistake.  I don't know anyone who goes shopping and says "Give me your HIGHEST price."

I'm not talking about speculation.  I'm talking about new collectors getting into the hobby.  If you started collecting in 2021 you are looking at big, possibly unrecoverable losses on all your books.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.  Lots of people sell books to buy new ones.  These people are now stuck with eating their losses, or holding onto these books and not engaging in the hobby as much.

 As has been noted, ASM#300 is a big key for new collectors.  It may be the first big book that they buy.  How likely are they to continue buying expensive books after seeing the value of their first purchase plummet?

I just don't understand that comic as a "key". For the same price, you can get a high grade slabbed Avengers #57. 

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:39 PM, paqart said:

I just don't understand that comic as a "key". For the same price, you can get a high grade slabbed Avengers #57. 

I'm the first one to question why the book has been so ridiculously overvalued -- primarily given its incredibly high supply.  But it's definitely a legit key, the first full appearance of Venom.

It's also an iconic cover by Todd MacFarlane who, both at the time and in hindsight, was/is deservedly the hottest and most collectible artist of that era.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Sweet Lou 14

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:39 PM, paqart said:

I just don't understand that comic as a "key". For the same price, you can get a high grade slabbed Avengers #57. 

Vision is much cooler than Venom

[Spawnfreak]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:16 PM, ChasingKingKirby said:

Just finished mine.  AF15 thru ASM300.

 

My hero!

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:16 PM, ChasingKingKirby said:

Just finished mine.  AF15 thru ASM300.

 

Fantastic accomplishment.  I won't be surprised if you eventually decide to stretch it further ... #325 gets you to the end of the MacFarlane run (plus there is #328) and of course #361-363 is the Carnage trilogy which is frankly overrated.  By the end of the 300's you're into the truly awful clone saga stuff and #400 is the "death" of Aunt May.  I ended up going through #400 slabbed, and I also have #401 through #700 raw since I bought them in real time.

[COI]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:39 PM, paqart said:

I just don't understand that comic as a "key". For the same price, you can get a high grade slabbed Avengers #57. 

What does the price have to do with whether it's a key or not? 

Maybe you prefer the Vision or the SA, and you can argue about the value proposition, but it's undoubtedly a key book. And if it's selling for the same price as an Avengers 57, that's not some sort of error, that's what people are willing to pay. As an aside, I've never understood the term "overvalued"; things go up and down. Is AF 15 "overvalued" because it's going down right now? Typically, "overvalued" is a euphemism for 'I don't like the book, therefore it should be cheaper'. 

As far as ASM 300 being a key, Venom is extremely popular with us kids who grew up reading comics in the late '80s to early '90s; a demo that is now hitting their 40s. It's arguably the best Marvel first appearance in 40 years. I would say something similar for Ultimate Fallout 4, despite the fact that I haven't bought a new comic in 20 years and I'm not the target audience for it.

Edited October 18, 2022 by COI

[COI]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:44 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I'm the first one to question why the book has been so ridiculously overvalued -- primarily given its incredibly high supply.  But it's definitely a legit key, the first full appearance of Venom.

It's also an iconic cover by Todd MacFarlane who, both at the time and in hindsight, was/is deservedly the hottest and most collectible artist of that era.

I understand the logic of high supply = unappealing to collect. It's why I avoided buying it for so long. But I'm starting to think that with enough demand, a high supply isn't necessarily a bad thing. The book is easy to buy and easy to sell, and that liquidity makes it not a very risky proposition, especially for collectors who are new to buying slabs. With so many copies trading hands all the time in every grade above VF, most people will not be overpaying by definition. And multiple copies in every grade are available for those who like to hoard. 

[paqart]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:44 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I'm the first one to question why the book has been so ridiculously overvalued -- primarily given its incredibly high supply.  But it's definitely a legit key, the first full appearance of Venom.

It's also an iconic cover by Todd MacFarlane who, both at the time and in hindsight, was/is deservedly the hottest and most collectible artist of that era.

 

On 10/17/2022 at 10:00 PM, COI said:

What does the price have to do with whether it's a key or not? 

Maybe you prefer the Vision or the SA, and you can argue about the value proposition, but it's undoubtedly a key book. And if it's selling for the same price as an Avengers 57, that's not some sort of error, that's what people are willing to pay. As an aside, I've never understood the term "overvalued"; things go up and down. Is AF 15 "overvalued" because it's going down right now? Typically, "overvalued" is a euphemism for 'I don't like the book, therefore it should be cheaper'. 

As far as ASM 300 being a key, Venom is extremely popular with us kids who grew up reading comics in the late '80s to early '90s; a demo that is now hitting their 40s. It's arguably the best Marvel first appearance in 40 years. I would say something similar for Ultimate Fallout 4, despite the fact that I haven't bought a new comic in 20 years and I'm not the target audience for it.

That's all fair enough. I remember when it came out, how everyone was making such a big deal about McFarland. At the time, as now, I wasn't fond of his work nor did I ever like Venom as a character. McFarland and JS Campbell make the same kind of drawing errors, though admittedly with some style. Starlin is like that also; loads of drawing errors but stylish. Venom was like a shark with legs: an eating machine. That said, I'm glad other people like the character and I did enjoy the movie. McFarland's drawings just don't sit right with me. Someone else from the same period that I much prefer is Walt Simonson. His drawing, particularly his compositions and inking, make him my favorite artist from that era.

Edited October 18, 2022 by paqart

[KCOComics]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:39 PM, paqart said:

I just don't understand that comic as a "key". For the same price, you can get a high grade slabbed Avengers #57. 

Avengers 57 isn't even Visions first appearance!!! 

 

I'm kidding... I love Vision and prefer the cover of Avengers 57 over ASM300.... For me personally, give me AV57 all day! 

But I will echo @COI growing up in the early 90s, Venom was a big big deal. And McFarlane was a household name. My brother and I would beg my parents to buy us anything and everything Todd worked on (usually to no avail).  

So as much as I prefer SA and GA, I can't say I would even be interested in comics today if not for the hysteria that surrounded Spider-Man, Venom and Todd McFarlane in the late 80s and early 90s. 

[COI]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:33 PM, mjoeyoung said:

I care. And I don't believe I'm the only one.  I don't relish wasting money EVER. Usually when people grossly overpay for something they consider that a mistake.  I don't know anyone who goes shopping and says "Give me your HIGHEST price."

I'm not talking about speculation.  I'm talking about new collectors getting into the hobby.  If you started collecting in 2021 you are looking at big, possibly unrecoverable losses on all your books.  Not everyone has unlimited funds.  Lots of people sell books to buy new ones.  These people are now stuck with eating their losses, or holding onto these books and not engaging in the hobby as much.

 As has been noted, ASM#300 is a big key for new collectors.  It may be the first big book that they buy.  How likely are they to continue buying expensive books after seeing the value of their first purchase plummet?

I get your point, but this is part of the game. It always has been.

There may not have been this much volatility 20 years ago, but there wasn't much of a short term potential upside either. If you're going to collect, you pay the going rate for the stuff you want and hope for the best; at the very least, your consolation should be getting to own a book you care about. We're in a bit of a correction now, and part of the correction involves scaring off buyers who are in it for a quick buck. If someone can't handle that their book has decreased in value less than a year after they bought it, then it's unlikely they were going to hang around long either way.

Edited October 18, 2022 by COI