Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[mjoeyoung]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:18 AM, Pantodude said:

Living in one of the test market cities is almost as cool as living in Hell's Kitchen!    Just a case in point.  The huge multiples paid for Star Wars #1 35-cent variants exists at ALL grades (from 1.8 to 9.4 per GPA).  So much so that in 2017.2018, a 35c variant in 1.5 or 1.8 in 2017/2018 went for about as much as the 30c version in 9.8!   Lower to mid grade 35c books routinely fetch over 20x premium over same-grade 30c books nowadays, with more extreme multiples at the high end (e.g., in 9.4, $50K vs $500).  So the premium phenomenon in the context of vintage price variants is not limited to the high grades, as it might be with modern cover variants (i dunno).  Also, unlike modern cover variants that are marketed and hyped (not judging here) as rare counterparts prior to sale, which of course tends to incite interest when released and thereafter, the vintage price variants did not receive premiums until many, many years after release.  When they were sold, the rest of the country outside of the like 4 test cities knew nothing about their existence, let alone how rare they were!  It took time to realize their scarcity, but once it happened, the premiums for 35c price variants have stuck (in all grades).  That's another big difference.           

There is absolutely nothing I disagree with here!  Yours (and I hope mine) is the mindset of a collector.   I think there are a lot of people still spending big bucks on comics that don't care much, if at all about the history.  These people are not like us. All they care about is the investment potential of these books.  To them, rarer books are better investments, end stop.  Here is the description of the 9.8 Eternals #1 30 Cent Price Variant: 

Created by the great Jack Kirby, the artistic father of the Marvel Universe, the Eternals are a superhuman race created by the Celestials. The offered example for the much rarer 30 Cent Price Variant is pristine and has been graded Near Mint/Mint 9.8, making it the highest graded and 1 of only 4 examples of this Variant ever assigned the top grade by CGC. Adding to its desirability, the pristine condition is further enhanced by newsstand-fresh White Pages. Consider that there are 642 CGC 9.8s (Universal and Signature Series) for the regular (25-Cent) edition, and it drives how how incredibly rare these 30-Cent Price Variants of Eternals #1 really are.

This description mentions nothing about the interesting history of price variants.  The hook is that they are rare, RARE, RARE! If you like 9.8s, these 9.8s are double-plus-good! 

Now it IS possible that more people have developed a genuine appreciation for this specific price variant and that is reason why they bid almost $15K for a book that last sold for $7500 in 2020, but I'm a bit too cynical for that. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:58 PM, mjoeyoung said:

On 5/31/2023 at 6:18 AM, Pantodude said:

Living in one of the test market cities is almost as cool as living in Hell's Kitchen!    Just a case in point.  The huge multiples paid for Star Wars #1 35-cent variants exists at ALL grades (from 1.8 to 9.4 per GPA).  So much so that in 2017.2018, a 35c variant in 1.5 or 1.8 in 2017/2018 went for about as much as the 30c version in 9.8!   Lower to mid grade 35c books routinely fetch over 20x premium over same-grade 30c books nowadays, with more extreme multiples at the high end (e.g., in 9.4, $50K vs $500).  So the premium phenomenon in the context of vintage price variants is not limited to the high grades, as it might be with modern cover variants (i dunno).  Also, unlike modern cover variants that are marketed and hyped (not judging here) as rare counterparts prior to sale, which of course tends to incite interest when released and thereafter, the vintage price variants did not receive premiums until many, many years after release.  When they were sold, the rest of the country outside of the like 4 test cities knew nothing about their existence, let alone how rare they were!  It took time to realize their scarcity, but once it happened, the premiums for 35c price variants have stuck (in all grades).  That's another big difference.           

There is absolutely nothing I disagree with here!  Yours (and I hope mine) is the mindset of a collector.   I think there are a lot of people still spending big bucks on comics that don't care much, if at all about the history.  These people are not like us. All they care about is the investment potential of these books.  To them, rarer books are better investments, end stop.  Here is the description of the 9.8 Eternals #1 30 Cent Price Variant: 

Created by the great Jack Kirby, the artistic father of the Marvel Universe, the Eternals are a superhuman race created by the Celestials. The offered example for the much rarer 30 Cent Price Variant is pristine and has been graded Near Mint/Mint 9.8, making it the highest graded and 1 of only 4 examples of this Variant ever assigned the top grade by CGC. Adding to its desirability, the pristine condition is further enhanced by newsstand-fresh White Pages. Consider that there are 642 CGC 9.8s (Universal and Signature Series) for the regular (25-Cent) edition, and it drives how how incredibly rare these 30-Cent Price Variants of Eternals #1 really are.

This description mentions nothing about the interesting history of price variants.  The hook is that they are rare, RARE, RARE! If you like 9.8s, these 9.8s are double-plus-good! 

Now it IS possible that more people have developed a genuine appreciation for this specific price variant and that is reason why they bid almost $15K for a book that last sold for $7500 in 2020, but I'm a bit too cynical for that. 

One spoke of 35 cent variants, that I haven't seen play out as much on 30 cent variants. I remember what seemed early on the boards people finding or positioning with 35 centers, ie star wars and iron fist, I correlated with that because all I could find at the time were 30 centers. 

I eventually found one of the star wars, may be the only 35 center I have. I tried to be a bottom feeder and get X-men 30 cent variants, but   my point is, I WISH 30 cent variants would similarly catch on.

Doesn't seem likely in the short run but idk, if not when 35 centers pop, then when?! 

Edited June 2, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[mjoeyoung]

Stop trying to make Brother Voodoo happen!  Brother Voodoo is not going to happen!

I thought the madness was over when the last 9.8 sold for "only" $14,400. Nope, this sale represents the second highest sale ever.  Almost 12X the last 9.6 sale of $2K. 

Is he being lumped in with Ghost Rider and Moon Knight?  As far as I can see this guy has headlined 2 series, consisting of a grand total of 10 issues in 50 years.  The greatest trick that Brother Voodoo ever pulled was convincing the world that his first appearance was worth $20K. 

[batmiesta]

On 6/2/2023 at 11:22 PM, mjoeyoung said:

Stop trying to make Brother Voodoo happen!  Brother Voodoo is not going to happen!

I thought the madness was over when the last 9.8 sold for "only" $14,400. Nope, this sale represents the second highest sale ever.  Almost 12X the last 9.6 sale of $2K. 

Is he being lumped in with Ghost Rider and Moon Knight?  As far as I can see this guy has headlined 2 series, consisting of a grand total of 10 issues in 50 years.  The greatest trick that Brother Voodoo ever pulled was convincing the world that his first appearance was worth $20K. 

Are these people out on day release or something? 

[Microchip]

On 6/3/2023 at 10:00 AM, batmiesta said:

On 6/3/2023 at 8:22 AM, mjoeyoung said:

Stop trying to make Brother Voodoo happen!  Brother Voodoo is not going to happen!

I thought the madness was over when the last 9.8 sold for "only" $14,400. Nope, this sale represents the second highest sale ever.  Almost 12X the last 9.6 sale of $2K. 

Is he being lumped in with Ghost Rider and Moon Knight?  As far as I can see this guy has headlined 2 series, consisting of a grand total of 10 issues in 50 years.  The greatest trick that Brother Voodoo ever pulled was convincing the world that his first appearance was worth $20K. 

Expand  

Are these people out on day release or something? 

Taking a swing at trying to make sense of things.

17 9.8's, thats low for a BA book.

A clear 1st appearance, and he's on the cover, tick, tick.

Movie's, guest appearances... yet to be seen, unknown.

And the $250K BA benchmark everyone is looking at, Marvel Spotlight #5.   Count em, only 4 9.8's, out of 5,000 subs, a great character with a movie track record in place, and a be-arch of a black cover that shows every minor colour fleck from 6 miles away.

 

[southern cross]

I help out at a comic book store and a elderly gentleman popped into the store to drop off more books to sell on consignment. In the early 70s he was buying books off a distributor for roughly 12c each so bought multiples of books. He told me he sometimes bought ten and up to fifty copies of a single book. So these bronze are not rare. Maybe in grade. He did drop off I think two copies of the Strange Tales 169.

he did drop off two copies of Green Lantern 87, he has three more copies at home. Five copies of Swamp Thing 3, three copies seem to have a orange cover and two are regular red cover.

They seem to be minimum 8.5-9.4 as they sit on some books.

I was a little horrified to hear as he was going through some books, he noticed some had the white mis-wrapped cover with the ad page on the back showing the white on the spine. Thinking they were worth less he thru them out into the recycle bin. Have no clue how many or what issues he tossed out. Told him they are worth the same so no more throwing books out.

Now this is one elderly gentleman with a few thousand uncirculated books, how many more are out there with 60s and 70s books that maybe in grade. More discoveries in the wild I think for the next ten years. He also bought magazines in boxes that have never been opened. There's a Savage tales 1 he dropped off that looks to be in vf+ too. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by southern cross
Typo

[batmiesta]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:48 AM, Microchip said:

Taking a swing at trying to make sense of things.

17 9.8's, thats low for a BA book.

A clear 1st appearance, and he's on the cover, tick, tick.

Movie's, guest appearances... yet to be seen, unknown.

And the $250K BA benchmark everyone is looking at, Marvel Spotlight #5.   Count em, only 4 9.8's, out of 5,000 subs, a great character with a movie track record in place, and a be-arch of a black cover that shows every minor colour fleck from 6 miles away.

 

You missed.  

[mjoeyoung]

On 6/2/2023 at 6:48 PM, Microchip said:

Taking a swing at trying to make sense of things.

17 9.8's, thats low for a BA book.

A clear 1st appearance, and he's on the cover, tick, tick.

Movie's, guest appearances... yet to be seen, unknown.

And the $250K BA benchmark everyone is looking at, Marvel Spotlight #5.   Count em, only 4 9.8's, out of 5,000 subs, a great character with a movie track record in place, and a be-arch of a black cover that shows every minor colour fleck from 6 miles away.

 

This is pretty much what I was thinking.  I was hoping there was something I missed.  I remember there was some talk about him possibly being in one of the Dr. Strange movies.  As far as relevancy, this character is no Ghost Rider.  He isn't even Squirrel Girl.

It seems like the entire value of this book is riding on the rarity.  If nobody cares about the character, why should it be worth very much, rare or not? 

This was a $400 book in 2013, then there are ZERO sales from 2014 until 2017, then it is a $3500 from 2018-20, and then in 2021 it is somehow a $20K book? 

I guess I should be stocking up on Amazing Adventures #18, as there are only eleven 9.8s of the first appearance of Killraven. Of course this book had 2 ridiculous sales in 2021 ($1500 and $2880), but zero since then. 

Strange Tales #169 is definitely a book to watch.  I see no reason why the 9.6 grades are not going to continue falling in value until they reach 2016-18 levels ($900) at a minimum.  If the 9.8s can continue to hold these price points at a 26X multiple, it will offer some proof that 9.8s have become permanently disconnected from the other grades.  By one measure, with seventeen 9.8s and fifty-eight 9.6s the premium should really be closer to 3.4X.

[Nschenks]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:41 PM, mjoeyoung said:

This is pretty much what I was thinking.  I was hoping there was something I missed.  I remember there was some talk about him possibly being in one of the Dr. Strange movies.  As far as relevancy, this character is no Ghost Rider.  He isn't even Squirrel Girl.

It seems like the entire value of this book is riding on the rarity.  If nobody cares about the character, why should it be worth very much, rare or not? 

This was a $400 book in 2013, then there are ZERO sales from 2014 until 2017, then it is a $3500 from 2018-20, and then in 2021 it is somehow a $20K book? 

I guess I should be stocking up on Amazing Adventures #18, as there are only eleven 9.8s of the first appearance of Killraven. Of course this book had 2 ridiculous sales in 2021 ($1500 and $2880), but zero since then. 

Strange Tales #169 is definitely a book to watch.  I see no reason why the 9.6 grades are not going to continue falling in value until they reach 2016-18 levels ($900) at a minimum.  If the 9.8s can continue to hold these price points at a 26X multiple, it will offer some proof that 9.8s have become permanently disconnected from the other grades.  By one measure, with seventeen 9.8s and fifty-eight 9.6s the premium should really be closer to 3.4X.

Different era, but another Aliens #1 9.8 from 1988 just sold for $6,980, backing up the $7,500 sale in April. Another book that is unexplainably 20-25x the value of the same book in 9.6. And this one has 73 copies in 9.8 (260 I think in 9.6)! Obviously Aliens is way more relevant than Brother Voodoo, but damn the 9.8 multipliers for some books are insane. 9.8 definitely becoming disconnected, especially in pre-2000's books (and especially pre-1990's).

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Nsschenks

[Off Panel]

EASE: Tonight I won the Captain America 146 from the ComicLink auction (9.8, White pages, and a picture frame to boot). I got it for less than half of what the last one sold for in 2021 ($401 vs  $960.)

NOT EASE: I also had my eye on an Incredible Hulk #151, which ended up going for over four times its last sale price in 2016. ($2,277 vs $510.) There are only four 9.8's, so that maybe isn't too surprising.

 

[Microchip]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:36 PM, Nsschenks said:

Different era, but another Aliens #1 9.8 from 1988 just sold for $6,980, backing up the $7,500 sale in April. Another book that is unexplainably 20-25x the value of the same book in 9.6. And this one has 73 copies in 9.8 (260 I think in 9.6)! Obviously Aliens is way more relevant than Brother Voodoo, but damn the 9.8 multipliers for some books are insane. 9.8 definitely becoming disconnected, especially in pre-2000's books (and especially pre-1990's).

 

Thats insanity.

I love the title too, and looking at my last pickup of a #1, $7,500, and $6,980 is 'high on meth' bidding.

[Microchip]

On 6/3/2023 at 12:41 PM, mjoeyoung said:

This was a $400 book in 2013, then there are ZERO sales from 2014 until 2017, then it is a $3500 from 2018-20, and then in 2021 it is somehow a $20K book? 

People are looking at the trend, with a dash of FOMO driving the book values?

The 'what if this is the next big book?' driving auction bidding?  

A quick scan of of GPA in the last 5 minutes of the auction, and last month high result is the starting point for the serious bidders on the current copy under auction 

[mjoeyoung]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:27 PM, Microchip said:

People are looking at the trend, with a dash of FOMO driving the book values?

The 'what if this is the next big book?' driving auction bidding?  

A quick scan of of GPA in the last 5 minutes of the auction, and last month high result is the starting point for the serious bidders on the current copy under auction 

Could be, could be.  If he is in a new show are we to expect prices to go UP from here?

At least I can read mine.  

[Microchip]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:06 PM, mjoeyoung said:

Could be, could be.  If he is in a new show are we to expect prices to go UP from here?

 

Look at UF #4, if the FOMO is strong enough, the sky is the limit! 

[Microchip]

On 6/3/2023 at 3:06 PM, mjoeyoung said:

At least I can read mine.  

What's your uncles surname, Musk, Gates, Rockafella?

Here's my reader..   and they threw in the rest of the run, all for $25 clams.

 

I can happily eat my dinner off of this bad boy 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Microchip

[DC#]

Below are Session 1 results from the May/June Featured Clink auction.   I kept a lot of results in here that have no GPA data just for fun and tried to include more GA overall.    I will let everyone else speculate as to what the tea leaves say on this one.     Some crazy strong results on some.....some seemingly crazy good deals on others.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by DC#

[DC#]

On the side of incredibly strong sales from Clink.....this one stood out.    Last sale was Sept 2020 for $9.7k.    The listing even said it had a cracked case and was being re-holdered 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by DC#

[mjoeyoung]

On 6/3/2023 at 9:23 AM, DC# said:

On the side of incredibly strong deals from Clink.....this one stood out.    Last sale was Sept 2020 for $9.7k.    The listing even said it had a cracked case and was being re-holdered 

 

There WAS the 9.6 that sold for $78K in September 2022.  But, a 9.2 sold for $7245 in March 2022.  Meanwhile, all the grades at 7.0 and below are sliding back to 2019 levels and 8.5 to 7.5 grades are treading water off 50% from their highs.  The divergence continues.

[mjoeyoung]

I think I know why that IH#180 sold for such a premium ($7100).

I would think an "exceptional" spine would have no back cover showing.

They paid more for that sticker ($3700) than the entire last sale of $3400!

[Microchip]

On 6/4/2023 at 1:23 AM, DC# said:

On the side of incredibly strong sales from Clink.....this one stood out.    Last sale was Sept 2020 for $9.7k.    The listing even said it had a cracked case and was being re-holdered 

 

No one can be overly surprised by this result.