Fixing the color break 2 2

[deczola]

Do you guys think a color break fix process that would not be seen as restoration have a big call for? 

It is a time consuming process to fix a color break involving using heat, transferring ink (have to be perfect matches), bonding, etc 

The goal is to make it undetectable.  It is the process of removing ink from from one issue (example: a beat version of a Marvel Comic in 1968 that I just need the cover ink from, getting a few pin dots of ink from that cover and transferring it to the color break on another Marvel Comics in 1968 that is way more valuable).

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by deczola

[joeypost]

Let us know how this goes. 

[Lightning55]

What you are describing is "stealth" restoration.  Still restoration.  You are trying to restore a comic that has honest wear to appear as if that never happened.  It is unethical to do that.

That comic may someday make it into the mainstream of collector comics, and it is not as it appears.  It is the same as color-touching a book, and hoping the graders don't pick it up.  You're thinking that if you get away with it, slipped it by, it's ok.  It's not. 

Later methods of detection, or a sharper eye, might reveal the "correction".  Ask the government if it's ok to counterfeit $100 bills as long as they can't be detected.

[James J Johnson]

14 hours ago, deczola said:

Do you guys think a color break fix process that would not be seen as restoration have a big call for? 

It is a time consuming process to fix a color break involving using heat, transferring ink (have to be perfect matches), bonding, etc 

The goal is to make it undetectable.  It is the process of removing ink from from one issue (example: a beat version of a Marvel Comic in 1968 that I just need the cover ink from, getting a few pin dots of ink from that cover and transferring it to the color break on another Marvel Comics in 1968 that is way more valuable).

 

Well, although my first thought is  

I quickly remembered that at one time, they laughed at Fulton and the Wright Brothers  

And there were even those who believed that some, who turned out to be years, sometimes decades, or even centuries before their time, belonged in padded cells!  

So like our resident paper wizard, I'll simply wish you the best of luck with that!  

And while we're at it, likethe dog said to the fire hydrant, this one's on you!  

 

[Randall Dowling]

I find myself wondering if the OP has a method of trimming that is undetectable as well...

[James J Johnson]

6 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

I find myself wondering if the OP has a method of trimming that is undetectable as well...

With what he's describing perfected and undetectable, who would need to trim anything, undetectable or otherwise? 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

I would suggest looking up Danny or Daniel Dupcak aka Carlos Seneca... 

[Qalyar]

So, you believe you can "move" ink dots from one cover to another, in a manner that wouldn't be detected as color touch? And that doing so would somehow flawlessly repair color breaking defects, notwithstanding that most such defects also involve damage to the weave of the paper.

On one hand, um, good luck.

On the other hand, what you suggest is intensely unethical. Recoloring a cover is restoration in the purest sense; you seem to want to produce restoration that avoids detection as such, almost certainly so you can pass such books off as unrestored.

So, first and foremost, I'm pretty sure you literally can't do this. I'm even more certain that you shouldn't.

[Killerkelly]

Not sure about how the process is done but I’ve heard about people being so damn good at restoring comic books that cgc can never even tell it’s happened these people have been restoring books since the 70’s some before that I’ve seen some of this work before and I have to say it’s truly amazing work but most of these people don’t really work on comic books they work more on novels and really really old books very rarely they’ll work on a comic and it’s very costly from what I’ve heard but it is 100% possible 

[PovertyRow]

1 hour ago, Qalyar said:

So, you believe you can "move" ink dots from one cover to another, in a manner that wouldn't be detected as color touch? And that doing so would somehow flawlessly repair color breaking defects, notwithstanding that most such defects also involve damage to the weave of the paper.

On one hand, um, good luck.

On the other hand, what you suggest is intensely unethical. Recoloring a cover is restoration in the purest sense; you seem to want to produce restoration that avoids detection as such, almost certainly so you can pass such books off as unrestored.

So, first and foremost, I'm pretty sure you literally can't do this. I'm even more certain that you shouldn't.

This. I spent many years in 4-color pre-press where we would make the scans, flats etc to create 4-color litho. The only place i can actually see this possibly working is an area that is 100% color - no dot patterns at all. But how to affix it without detection? It just does not add up.

[deczola]

Trimming never done or attempted.  I always find a book that is trimmed quickly.  All I do to spot that if I have any doubts is to measure it against a issue that I know is legit, size should be a perfect match.

[deczola]

14 hours ago, Lightning55 said:

What you are describing is "stealth" restoration.  Still restoration.  You are trying to restore a comic that has honest wear to appear as if that never happened.  It is unethical to do that.

That comic may someday make it into the mainstream of collector comics, and it is not as it appears.  It is the same as color-touching a book, and hoping the graders don't pick it up.  You're thinking that if you get away with it, slipped it by, it's ok.  It's not. 

Later methods of detection, or a sharper eye, might reveal the "correction".  Ask the government if it's ok to counterfeit $100 bills as long as they can't be detected.

I disagree with you but respect your opinion.  A color break is the lost of ink on the cover.  There is a process that I am still working the kinks out on (lots of variables involved) that is applying the same ink exact ink that was used to make the comic from the same printing press.  I am adding the same ink from the same press.  

Just like there is trial and error with pressing which took me awhile to nail 100% of the time.  Older books is MUCH HARDER to pull it off and I am only working on blank ink, need to perfect that first. 

[deczola]

7 hours ago, PovertyRow said:

This. I spent many years in 4-color pre-press where we would make the scans, flats etc to create 4-color litho. The only place i can actually see this possibly working is an area that is 100% color - no dot patterns at all. But how to affix it without detection? It just does not add up.

It is a very technical process that is my own.  I can tell you it can be done and I can point the restoration micro color breaks where and you would not be able to detect it, the books I did it with were worthless, thus if I screwed up it was pennies lost.  Have not attempted in on a book of value but eventually in a year or so (probably two) I will.  Once this is done you have to wait months for desire effect to work (think wet paint touch up when you have to wait months for the color to match). 

People use to argue with me all the time 15 years ago that pressing and dry cleaning a comic was "restoration" and now if you claimed that you would mostly get laughed at.  

So far it seems there is little interest in a field for paying to has this done to bump a 9.2 to 9.8 (with the only problem being color breaks).  Also, it would take brass balls to fix a color break on a Hulk 181 9.4 to get it to 9.8

Edited May 2, 2021 by deczola

[deczola]

42 minutes ago, Pink Nightmare said:

We got us a Jason Ewert Jr.!

Look at those tucked-in shirts

I never heard of that dude, thus I will google them now!

[deczola]

1 hour ago, Pink Nightmare said:

Pressing is, was, and always will be restoration. It might be the least invasive and the most accepted, but it is definitely restoration 

However, the pressed issue is accepted and does not get the qualified or restored tag.  That is a monster difference in the grading industry.  I got burned by cheating sellers and got restored comics many moons ago that I was not aware that they were restored.  From there, I educated myself on the subject.  

In theory I could even get the ink from the issue that is "being restored" by getting ink to a liquid state and spreading the ink next to the color break to cover the color break.  In that scenario I am adding no outside source and using the ink from the issue itself to fix color break.  

You need knowledge of using tantalum, molyebdenum, tantalum carbibe and have access to it to get to this level of fixing color breaks. 

[Qalyar]

30 minutes ago, deczola said:

However, the pressed issue is accepted and does not get the qualified or restored tag.  That is a monster difference in the grading industry.  I got burned by cheating sellers and got restored comics many moons ago that I was not aware that they were restored.  From there, I educated myself on the subject.  

In theory I could even get the ink from the issue that is "being restored" by getting ink to a liquid state and spreading the ink next to the color break to cover the color break.  In that scenario I am adding no outside source and using the ink from the issue itself to fix color break.  

You need knowledge of using tantalum, molyebdenum, tantalum carbibe and have access to it to get to this level of fixing color breaks. 

I'm quite familiar with tantalum carbide. I'd be... let's say very interested to hear how you think that's relevant to converting printed ink to a "liquid state" or any of the rest of this...

Nothing you have said here does anything to convince me that your "process" does what you claim, much less that it does so in a way that is fundamentally undetectable.

[thehumantorch]

6 hours ago, deczola said:

Trimming never done or attempted.  I always find a book that is trimmed quickly.  All I do to spot that if I have any doubts is to measure it against a issue that I know is legit, size should be a perfect match.

Sorry, not an accurate way to detect trimming.  Size of comics printed in the past vary as it's a cheap printing process.

[deczola]

34 minutes ago, Qalyar said:

I'm quite familiar with tantalum carbide. I'd be... let's say very interested to hear how you think that's relevant to converting printed ink to a "liquid state" or any of the rest of this...

Nothing you have said here does anything to convince me that your "process" does what you claim, much less that it does so in a way that is fundamentally undetectable.

All I will say is that it doesn't retain heat which is a key point in the process,  Extreme heat is needed for this to work and metals that don' retain heat are crucial to the process.  

[deczola]

36 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

Sorry, not an accurate way to detect trimming.  Size of comics printed in the past vary as it's a cheap printing process.

I've yet to come across a AMS 129 or a Hulk 181 or Xmen 94 that vary in size dimensions.  Each of those issues measured against other exact issues will have the same size. I've come across trimmed issues of those that when matched against issues of the same print run clearly show the issue trimmed.    

[James J Johnson]

7 hours ago, deczola said:

Trimming never done or attempted.  I always find a book that is trimmed quickly.  All I do to spot that if I have any doubts is to measure it against a issue that I know is legit, size should be a perfect match.

A perfect match? If you gave me a pile of 1000 Silver age comics, even of the same issue, I'd be hard pressed to find 2 out of the 1000 that were precisely the same size and both cut with precise uniformity, that is, perfectly plumb rectangles, not to mention the level of overhang and page protrusion greatly varying.

While size, in and of itself, can indicate a potentially trimmed book, necessitating a closer inspection, the page ends themselves, and their symmetry, are the determiners of trim. .