Krazy Kat Strike

[whomerjay]

KK,

 

For all the things you've said, you get a strike for this? You showed a bunch of Nazis, with your intention (I think) being "you're all a bunch of sheep", as you've said multiple times. Did it come across as anti-semitic? Is that why you received the strike?

 

Hari,

 

There was nothing patently anti-semitic in my post. In fact, I articulated that my own grand-parents were Holocaust victims and that Jerry Seinfeld used 'The Soup Nazi' in an episode. However,...when you have guys PM'ing the moderator like 3rd graders,....?

 

KK

 

You should know by now there are certain topics (of a racial, gender, ethnic nature) that one should ALWAYS avoid, no matter what you say, because someone is bound to misinterpret it and label you as a racist, misogynist, or pervert. Not worth it. And sometimes it will expose your true character- e.g., the recent comments of William Bennett, our modern day Tartuffe. (not that his true character was ever in doubt).

 

What a bunch of compostable_fertilizer.

 

If you're willing to have someone (be it the media, or whoever) take what you have said in a public forum and relate it elsewhere anyway they care to, then I guess no topic or opinion is forbidden.

 

Just ask the President of Harvard whether he would take back his remarks on women if he could. I've looked at what he said and (I may be wrong) it seems he was simply being devil's advocate in an intellectual forum. But clearly the situation took on a life of its own, as it was meat to the media.

 

Certain topics in public forums are simply dangerous and bringing them up often causes the exact opposite effect intended.

[shrunkenhead]

 

 

Just ask the President of Harvard whether he would take back his remarks on women if he could. I've looked at what he said and (I may be wrong) it seems he was simply being devil's advocate in an intellectual forum. But clearly the situation took on a life of its own, as it was meat to the media.

 

 

Slightly OT, but Lawrence Summers' claim that his comments have been misrepresented by the media is total spin. His latest response to the whole debacle was that his comments were supposed to be "off the record," as if that's an excuse for suggesting that women are genetically predestined to be math dummies. The guy was trying to push buttons on purpose, as he delivered that little gem at a freaking conference about the role of women within academia. It would be like going to an african-american conference and suggesting that more blacks live in low-income housing projects than whites because they're genetically/intellectually inferior, and thus aren't smart enough to handle higher-paying jobs. Totally without basis, and and totally with bias.

 

Academics don't deserve a free pass, and Summers deserved everything he got. This was not the first time that he's said something stupid like this, either.

[whomerjay]

 

 

Just ask the President of Harvard whether he would take back his remarks on women if he could. I've looked at what he said and (I may be wrong) it seems he was simply being devil's advocate in an intellectual forum. But clearly the situation took on a life of its own, as it was meat to the media.

 

 

Slightly OT, but Lawrence Summers' claim that his comments have been misrepresented by the media is total spin. His latest response to the whole debacle was that his comments were supposed to be "off the record," as if that's an excuse for suggesting that women are genetically predestined to be math dummies. The guy was trying to push buttons on purpose, as he delivered that little gem at a freaking conference about the role of women within academia. It would be like going to an african-american conference and suggesting that more blacks live in low-income housing projects than whites because they're genetically/intellectually inferior, and thus aren't smart enough to handle higher-paying jobs. Totally without basis, and and totally with bias.

 

Academics don't deserve a free pass, and Summers deserved everything he got. This was not the first time that he's said something stupid like this, either.

 

Maybe you're right. I haven't read anything that seemed totally objective and I don't have a transcript of what he said. One thing I read sounded like he was simply bringing up the topic and discussing it's empirical status.

[whomerjay]

KK,

 

For all the things you've said, you get a strike for this? You showed a bunch of Nazis, with your intention (I think) being "you're all a bunch of sheep", as you've said multiple times. Did it come across as anti-semitic? Is that why you received the strike?

 

Hari,

 

There was nothing patently anti-semitic in my post. In fact, I articulated that my own grand-parents were Holocaust victims and that Jerry Seinfeld used 'The Soup Nazi' in an episode. However,...when you have guys PM'ing the moderator like 3rd graders,....?

 

KK

 

You should know by now there are certain topics (of a racial, gender, ethnic nature) that one should ALWAYS avoid, no matter what you say, because someone is bound to misinterpret it and label you as a racist, misogynist, or pervert. Not worth it. And sometimes it will expose your true character- e.g., the recent comments of William Bennett, our modern day Tartuffe. (not that his true character was ever in doubt).

 

What a bunch of compostable_fertilizer.

 

After a little reflection on this subject I see I'm wrong to frame the issue here in terms of "don't bring up hotbutton topics for fear of being misquoted or misunderstood".

 

I see my original post implicitly condones the post that got KK a strike, thereby perpetuating the error.

 

Perhaps the more appropriate point is that there's a reason hotbutton topics are hotbutton; it's hard to discuss or allude to them without suggesting or demonstrating a lack of sensitivity or understanding.

 

I don't think KK intended any offence, but the post was inappropriate and that should be the main message here.

[FFB]

KK,

 

For all the things you've said, you get a strike for this? You showed a bunch of Nazis, with your intention (I think) being "you're all a bunch of sheep", as you've said multiple times. Did it come across as anti-semitic? Is that why you received the strike?

 

Hari,

 

There was nothing patently anti-semitic in my post. In fact, I articulated that my own grand-parents were Holocaust victims and that Jerry Seinfeld used 'The Soup Nazi' in an episode. However,...when you have guys PM'ing the moderator like 3rd graders,....?

 

KK

 

You should know by now there are certain topics (of a racial, gender, ethnic nature) that one should ALWAYS avoid, no matter what you say, because someone is bound to misinterpret it and label you as a racist, misogynist, or pervert. Not worth it. And sometimes it will expose your true character- e.g., the recent comments of William Bennett, our modern day Tartuffe. (not that his true character was ever in doubt).

 

What a bunch of compostable_fertilizer.

 

After a little reflection on this subject I see I'm wrong to frame the issue here in terms of "don't bring up hotbutton topics for fear of being misquoted or misunderstood".

 

I see my original post implicitly condones the post that got KK a strike, thereby perpetuating the error.

 

Perhaps the more appropriate point is that there's a reason hotbutton topics are hotbutton; it's hard to discuss or allude to them without suggesting or demonstrating a lack of sensitivity or understanding.

 

I don't think KK intended any offence, but the post was inappropriate and that should be the main message here.

 

There was nothing inappropriate about the way KK used the picture of the Nazis to make his point. It was obvious hyperbole when he did it, and he was using it to illustrate how he felt (rightly or wrongly) about the way people act toward him. It wasn't like he was using the picture to advocate exterminating Jews.

 

This kind of political correctness (where people use the "I'M OFFENDED!" tactic to shout down another person) is, itself, the most dishonest debating strategy I've ever seen. What surprises me the most is that Arch actually fell for it and gave KK a strike.

[whomerjay]

KK,

 

For all the things you've said, you get a strike for this? You showed a bunch of Nazis, with your intention (I think) being "you're all a bunch of sheep", as you've said multiple times. Did it come across as anti-semitic? Is that why you received the strike?

 

Hari,

 

There was nothing patently anti-semitic in my post. In fact, I articulated that my own grand-parents were Holocaust victims and that Jerry Seinfeld used 'The Soup Nazi' in an episode. However,...when you have guys PM'ing the moderator like 3rd graders,....?

 

KK

 

You should know by now there are certain topics (of a racial, gender, ethnic nature) that one should ALWAYS avoid, no matter what you say, because someone is bound to misinterpret it and label you as a racist, misogynist, or pervert. Not worth it. And sometimes it will expose your true character- e.g., the recent comments of William Bennett, our modern day Tartuffe. (not that his true character was ever in doubt).

 

What a bunch of compostable_fertilizer.

 

After a little reflection on this subject I see I'm wrong to frame the issue here in terms of "don't bring up hotbutton topics for fear of being misquoted or misunderstood".

 

I see my original post implicitly condones the post that got KK a strike, thereby perpetuating the error.

 

Perhaps the more appropriate point is that there's a reason hotbutton topics are hotbutton; it's hard to discuss or allude to them without suggesting or demonstrating a lack of sensitivity or understanding.

 

I don't think KK intended any offence, but the post was inappropriate and that should be the main message here.

 

There was nothing inappropriate about the way KK used the picture of the Nazis to make his point. It was obvious hyperbole when he did it, and he was using it to illustrate how he felt (rightly or wrongly) about the way people act toward him. It wasn't like he was using the picture to advocate exterminating Jews.

 

This kind of political correctness (where people use the "I'M OFFENDED!" tactic to shout down another person) is, itself, the most dishonest debating strategy I've ever seen. What surprises me the most is that Arch actually fell for it and gave KK a strike.

 

If people exploited the PC nature of this issue and complained soley for polemic reasons, I agree with you. I don't know why people complained or Arch's true reason for giving KK a strike. But I can envision a few reasons why various members would resent the post, starting with off-hand casual comparisons of people or acts to Nazi's or Nazi actions could be interpreted as trivializing Nazi atrocities. There's also a lot of folks who could tolerate being jokingly compared to a sex offfender or an ax murderer, but not to a Nazi. Whether you agree that is right or not, bottom line it's inflammatory and a road you want to avoid.

[eddly]

who is krazy kat?

[FFB]

If people exploited the PC nature of this issue and complained soley for polemic reasons, I agree with you. I don't know why people complained or Arch's true reason for giving KK a strike. But I can envision a few reasons why various members would resent the post, starting with off-hand casual comparisons of people or acts to Nazi's or Nazi actions could be interpreted as trivializing Nazi atrocities. There's also a lot of folks who could tolerate being jokingly compared to a sex offfender or an ax murderer, but not to a Nazi. Whether you agree that is right or not, bottom line it's inflammatory and a road you want to avoid.

 

People post WWII covers with Nazi images on these forums every day. If someone is hypersensitive to seeing Nazi imagery, this might not be the right forum for them.

[jimm94]

Agreed. I think KK should be banned for being an antagonistic jerk, but not given a strike because he posted a photo of Nazi soldiers.

[shrunkenhead]

 

There was nothing inappropriate about the way KK used the picture of the Nazis to make his point. It was obvious hyperbole when he did it, and he was using it to illustrate how he felt (rightly or wrongly) about the way people act toward him. It wasn't like he was using the picture to advocate exterminating Jews.

 

This kind of political correctness (where people use the "I'M OFFENDED!" tactic to shout down another person) is, itself, the most dishonest debating strategy I've ever seen. What surprises me the most is that Arch actually fell for it and gave KK a strike.

 

Scott, I have to respectfully disagree. I found Krazy's use of the Nazi image to be offensive, and I did not state my views on the subject in order to engage in a "dishonest debating strategy." Now admittedly, I have probably thought about this subject more than most, both in a personal and professional setting. But that doesn't make my opinion disingenuous; quite the contrary, I would argue.

 

When I stated my problems with the image, Krazy came back with "what about maus?" as if his post had the same intent as those books, which is completely ridiculous. Maus walked the line and transcended the borders of what some consider "good taste" in order to present the most honest portrayal of the Holocaust that one artist was capable of constructing. I cannot pretend that Krazy's intent was so noble.

 

And let's make no mistake here about exactly what Krazy did. He posted an image that people publicly objected to, and then posted the image AGAIN, thus basically giving those who had a problem with the image the pictorial equivalent of the middle finger. This isn't a case where Krazy accidentally offended some PC people. He sought to provoke, succeeded, and so provoked again.

 

Sorry to hear you say that you'd think I would participate in an empty, dishonest form of political correctness.

[burntboy]

Well,..you actually said that you were going to post to the moderator so its very hard to take your own words at anything other than face value.

 

And the fact that you dont like my personality is a pretty LAME justification for encouraging a PC mentality. You are imho, a threat to free speech, as there is no way my post was incendiary to anyone other than the most 'thin skinned' individual.

 

That said,...you have to live with yourself so I could care less what you think of my personality.

 

KK

 

hey crazy; you gonna answer my question???????

 

you've responded to stuff since then?!?!?

[shrunkenhead]

 

People post WWII covers with Nazi images on these forums every day. If someone is hypersensitive to seeing Nazi imagery, this might not be the right forum for them.

 

Not to single you out, Scott, but I also thought I'd mention that I think this is an inaccurate comparison. There's a world of difference between the Krazy post and a scan of golden age Cap #1. Context is everything.

[krazykat-migration]

I personally think it was unwarranted but thats what happens when everyone PM's the moderator like 3rd graders. I posted a picture of soldiers Goose-Stepping and said some on the board were acting like Nazis. I guess you cant do that. Kinda BS if you ask me....but Im not liked here. It is apparent.

 

Krazy - do you actually own any/all of the 4 pieces of original art in your sig line???

 

if so, which ones. if not - what's the point?

 

Hey Burntboy,

 

My point was to express my love of OA. Nothing more.

 

That said, shrunkenhead has incited alotta bad energy towards me. Of which I do not think I deserved....

 

..and I am not going to be posting very much anymore because I dont want another strike.

 

Good Luck board.

 

KK

[shrunkenhead]

 

 

 

That said, shrunkenhead has insighted alotta bad energy towards me. Of which I do not think I deserved....

 

 

 

I'm hardly an ogre. I have no desire to see anyone booted off the boards, for what it's worth.

[FFB]

 

People post WWII covers with Nazi images on these forums every day. If someone is hypersensitive to seeing Nazi imagery, this might not be the right forum for them.

 

Not to single you out, Scott, but I also thought I'd mention that I think this is an inaccurate comparison. There's a world of difference between the Krazy post and a scan of golden age Cap #1. Context is everything.

 

True, but I wasn't equating them. I was simply saying that if someone were unable to look at Nazi imagery without feeling offended, that person probably gets offended on a regular basis on these boards.

 

As someone who is about to marry into a Jewish family and who has done some extensive study on the Holocaust, I am as horrified by what the Nazis did as any gentile. But at the same time, I do not think there is anything wrong with a person making a hyperbolic comparison to Nazism when someone else treats him in a way that he views (rightly or wrongly) as comparable. That's what free speech and the exchange of ideas is about. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with others saying that they think such comparisons are inappropriate if that is how the viewers feel about it. My problem is when the viewer's objection takes the form of shutting the other guy down to silence him, rather than addressing his position head-on. It is ultimately a good thing for people NOT to forget what the Nazis did and the effects their actions had on six million Jews. And if an inaccurate, hyperbolic comparison is one of the things that brings along a dialogue that serves as an additional reminder, then that's just fine with me.

 

As for your other point about "Sorry to hear you say that you'd think I would participate in an empty, dishonest form of political correctness," you know that isn't how I think about you in general. I have a lot of respect for your intelligence. What I did not agree with was the decision to report KK to the mods for posting the image, nor did I agree with the decision by the mods to give him a strike. I have never been a big fan of giving Nazi imagery or other racist imagery so much power over my thoughts and feelings that I would feel the need to look away, destroy the images, or drive the speaker away (only to have him reappear in another forum to give the same message). Racist images are a symptom of a deeper problem within the psyche of the person who uses them for racist purposes, and shouting that person down or making that person disappear from the particular forum does nothing to eradicate the problem.

 

Having said that, I don't think that KK was trying to use the picture to advocate exterminating the Jews. I think he was using it to emphasize (rightly or wrongly) what he thought about how he was being treated (and then, the second time, to demonstrate that he wasn't going to be shut down simply because people were offended by the image). Granted, it was an over-the-top reference, but it certainly was not the first time I've seen someone do that here.

[Sal]

I personally think it was unwarranted but thats what happens when everyone PM's the moderator like 3rd graders. I posted a picture of soldiers Goose-Stepping and said some on the board were acting like Nazis. I guess you cant do that. Kinda BS if you ask me....but Im not liked here. It is apparent.

 

Krazy - do you actually own any/all of the 4 pieces of original art in your sig line???

 

if so, which ones. if not - what's the point?

 

Hey Burntboy,

 

My point was to express my love of OA. Nothing more.

 

That said, shrunkenhead has insighted alotta bad energy towards me. Of which I do not think I deserved....

 

..and I am not going to be posting very much anymore because I dont want another strike.

 

Good Luck board.

 

KK

 

 

yaaay!

 

good bye, you FDQ! don't let the door hit you in the Arse on the way out, it might cause brain damage...

 

 

and fwiw, this strike was kind of silly. i'm not a fan at all of the modern usage of "Nazi" to connotate any sort of group with whom one disagrees. feminazis, eviro-nazis, whatever. it's crass and stupid. not sure this is in that realm

[shrunkenhead]

 

I do not think there is anything wrong with a person making a hyperbolic comparison to Nazism when someone else treats him in a way that he views (rightly or wrongly) as comparable. That's what free speech and the exchange of ideas is about. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with others saying that they think such comparisons are inappropriate if that is how the viewers feel about it. My problem is when the viewer's objection takes the form of shutting the other guy down to silence him, rather than addressing his position head-on. It is ultimately a good thing for people NOT to forget what the Nazis did and the effects their actions had on six million Jews. And if an inaccurate, hyperbolic comparison is one of the things that brings along a dialogue that serves as an additional reminder, then that's just fine with me.

 

Yep, I do agree with you here. If Krazy had been banned for this, I would say that's too much. I've no interest in shutting down dialogue either, even if it's rotten dialogue. But I do believe that some sort of appropriate action was in order. A strike doesn't take him out of the game, or maybe even just a PM'd warning from the mods wouldn't have been such a bad idea, either. That's how I feel about it, though as you rightly point out, my word is not the final say-so, nor should it be.

 

Having said that, I don't think that KK was trying to use the picture to advocate exterminating the Jews.

 

I also agree, though I don't think that an overt suggestion of jewish extermination is the only way in which the image can be construed as offensive. But I never thought that was Krazy's intent, and I hope he realizes that.

 

Anyways, not sure why I'm the only voice on this right now, as I know I wasn't the only one troubled by the use of the pic. Guess everybody else has a life.

 

And Krazy, I know that I said previously that I didn't want to get into all this with you, but I do want to offer you an olive branch, if you'll have it. You also have my condolences regarding your grandparents, if you'll have them. And if you think I crossed the line in the past and gave you unfair abuse, then I do apologize. I don't think I came down on you as hard as a number of other folks, but if you feel I did, well, that's ultimately not why I'm on these boards. I officially promise to do my best not to badger you, and, believe it or not, I wouldn't want you --or anyone else--to walk away from the boards because of a point of contention with another forumite. At the end of the day, that's not what I believe these boards should be about.

 

To show I'm serious, I'd even be willing to send you a modest piece of OA, gratis, if you'd be interested. I've got some cool modern Flash pages. If you'd like one, PM me.

[scourge456789-migration]

I personally think it was unwarranted but thats what happens when everyone PM's the moderator like 3rd graders. I posted a picture of soldiers Goose-Stepping and said some on the board were acting like Nazis. I guess you cant do that. Kinda BS if you ask me....but Im not liked here. It is apparent.

 

Krazy - do you actually own any/all of the 4 pieces of original art in your sig line???

 

if so, which ones. if not - what's the point?

 

Hey Burntboy,

 

My point was to express my love of OA. Nothing more.

 

That said, shrunkenhead has insighted alotta bad energy towards me. Of which I do not think I deserved....

 

..and I am not going to be posting very much anymore because I dont want another strike.

 

Good Luck board.

 

KK

 

What a shame. You have contributed much to this forum. I dont see why you got banned but it does not to my eye appear warranted. Too bad that many people requested your strike and the mod sought fit to agree. In my opinion a mistake.

 

Matt

[heartened]

I personally think it was unwarranted but thats what happens when everyone PM's the moderator like 3rd graders. I posted a picture of soldiers Goose-Stepping and said some on the board were acting like Nazis. I guess you cant do that. Kinda BS if you ask me....but Im not liked here. It is apparent.

 

Krazy - do you actually own any/all of the 4 pieces of original art in your sig line???

 

if so, which ones. if not - what's the point?

 

Hey Burntboy,

 

My point was to express my love of OA. Nothing more.

 

That said, shrunkenhead has insighted alotta bad energy towards me. Of which I do not think I deserved....

 

..and I am not going to be posting very much anymore because I dont want another strike.

 

Good Luck board.

 

KK

 

What a shame. You have contributed much to this forum. I dont see why you got banned but it does not to my eye appear warranted. Too bad that many people requested your strike and the mod sought fit to agree. In my opinion a mistake.

 

Matt

 

Obviously, they could revoke the strike if they wanted to.

[tth2]

..and I am not going to be posting very much anymore because I dont want another strike.

 

Good Luck board.

 

KK

Now, if you could just change "very much anymore" to "at all anymore", that would've made my day.

 

Of course, who are you kidding? You'll just come back as another shill ID because of your pathetic cravings for attention, since by all accounts no one in real life EVER wants to hang out with you unless they want something from you.