Considering pieces from your collection because of Heritage crazy final hammers.... 1 1

[batman_fan]

I definitely have thought about selling some stuff, but I don't need the money and if there is anything I really want I can self fund without selling so ultimately I would just be stock piling money.

[Infamouspure22]

I have a pretty iconic Byrne piece that I am considering sending to auction.  Real life stuff like kids college tuition, cars, etc. are here so it might be time.  My reasoning isn't just because of the high auction prices (although thats the main reason lol)

Private sales can be an ordeal.  They involve so much posturing and negotiations and I definitely don't want to go through all of that if its already hard enough to let my favorite piece go.  The whole dance of me naming my asking price and providing comps and the interested party trying to dispute my valuation is tiresome, stressful, and at times insulting.  So yeah, if I ever let my Byrne go, I would most likely send to auction to realize its full value.  But if a legit buyer comes at me with an offer I can't refuse, then that works too lol.  But it seems there are only a few serious collectors that do that any more these days.

Guys that know me, know the piece I'm referring to.  I am just speaking re my viewpoint on the topic so please don't ask which piece.  I won't confirm or deny

[Bronty]

Private sales have gotten worse, haven’t they?    Maybe that’s natural as prices go up but it definitely feels harder to find a reasonable buyer or seller privately than it used to be . 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Bronty

[zhamlau]

Auctions are just easier then dealing with game players, goldbricks, and bludgers (which this “hobby” has a lot of). I send a ton of material to auction I don’t even show around anymore just to save the hassle.

I find with most buyers if a deal isn’t done with cash hitting hand while we’re still talking you really can’t count it a deal anymore. The only way that “no hassle deals” work anymore is if you are so vastly underpricing the item the buyer feels they have doubled up (or more) the instant they acquire it.

Plus half the time the guy has a story about how this piece is “so important” to them but they need a discount so they can buy it for “their personal collection” and so on…you know that piece is gonna end up in an auction in 6 months.

By just sending everything from the boring con drawings to the market fresh marvel hero page art to auction, you avoid all the games and stunts.

 

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Plus half the time the guy has a story about how this piece is “so important” to them but they need a discount so they can buy it for “their personal collection” and so on…

Sounds like a good reason to raise your price, not lower it.

[Bronty]

3 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Auctions are just easier then dealing with game players, goldbricks, and bludgers (which this “hobby” has a lot of). I send a ton of material to auction I don’t even show around anymore just to save the hassle.

 

 

Yeah, agree.     I think with prices where they are its just really hard to find the guy that wants to be the end consumer.   The auction can find that guy for you.

[gumbydarnit]

3 minutes ago, Bill C said:He was belligerent and insulting in several ways, though- to the point that the money just wasn't worth the aggravation.

Bill sorry to hear that… at least he didn’t say “he’s my favorite artist and if you’d find it in your heart to let the piece go I can die happy and complete!” before cussin’ you out.

[DeadpoolJr.]

16 hours ago, Bronty said:

Private sales have gotten worse, haven’t they?    Maybe that’s natural as prices go up but it definitely feels harder to find a reasonable buyer or seller privately than it used to be . 

I usually ask the seller or person I approach first if they would be interested in selling/hearing an offer on the piece I'm interested in. Depending on the piece and how motivated the person is in selling I'll ask if they have a number in mind or at least range for price. This isn't done to try and get it cheaper but because I don't always have comps available to know what a good offer is and don't want to make an offer that would be seen as low, especially if I'm the one approaching them on a piece they haven't advertised as being for sale. I might ask if they have a number in mind too in the same message where I give them a dollar figure as an offer to speed things along and show that I'm willing to go up. 

If they give me a number I only consider how much I like and want to the piece and if I CAN AFFORD THE PRICE. Even if it's above FMV if I want the piece and can afford it I'll accept it, especially when I'm the person who approaches them on something that wasn't for sale since I know I'm at a disadvantage and they have no real motivation in wanting to sell the piece. I might do a counter-offer only if it's extremely off but will still try to keep it high to comparable comps if they exist.

This is my approach to doing private deals and don't think it's a bad one. The hardest thing is really just getting through that initial barrier of getting the would be seller to consider selling their art but there are some ways to tell how open people are to these unprompted messages. Some say on CAF that it's ok to contact to contact them with offers, seeing that they have a lot of activity of doing trades and sales with fellow collectors, or how the piece you like differs and isn't inline with their collecting focus and something they don't rank high in their collection.

[JadeGiant]

4 hours ago, Bill C said:

I think there are pros and cons to doing it either way. I'm not adverse to doing private deals in general.

That said, I did have someone come at me recently inquiring on something very much not for sale. Offered multiples of what comps have sold for in public (although to be fair the last comp was half a decade ago, so that data isn't worth much anything). A strong offer in various ways, one to at least be taken seriously and think on. He was belligerent and insulting in several ways, though- to the point that the money just wasn't worth the aggravation.

In a hobby with so much passion involved, it never is. 

[stinkininkin]

36 minutes ago, DeadpoolJr. said:

I usually ask the seller or person I approach first if they would be interested in selling/hearing an offer on the piece I'm interested in. Depending on the piece and how motivated the person is in selling I'll ask if they have a number in mind or at least range for price. This isn't done to try and get it cheaper but because I don't always have comps available to know what a good offer is and don't want to make an offer that would be seen as low, especially if I'm the one approaching them on a piece they haven't advertised as being for sale. I might ask if they have a number in mind too in the same message where I give them a dollar figure as an offer to speed things along and show that I'm willing to go up. 

If they give me a number I only consider how much I like and want to the piece and if I CAN AFFORD THE PRICE. Even if it's above FMV if I want the piece and can afford it I'll accept it, especially when I'm the person who approaches them on something that wasn't for sale since I know I'm at a disadvantage and they have no real motivation in wanting to sell the piece. I might do a counter-offer only if it's extremely off but will still try to keep it high to comparable comps if they exist.

This is my approach to doing private deals and don't think it's a bad one. The hardest thing is really just getting through that initial barrier of getting the would be seller to consider selling their art but there are some ways to tell how open people are to these unprompted messages. Some say on CAF that it's ok to contact to contact them with offers, seeing that they have a lot of activity of doing trades and sales with fellow collectors, or how the piece you like differs and isn't inline with their collecting focus and something they don't rank high in their collection.

Respectfully, your approach would not get my attention. Getting me to consider selling a not for sale piece from my collection in the current market would take a VERY aggressive offer right out of the gate. Asking if I have a number in mind pretty much shuts down all consideration from my end. I've had most of my art for decades, have no desire or need to sell, and would need to be offered outlier auction result prices to even get my brain engaged. Even then it's probably a no, but unless you come out with your guns blazing, your chances are less than zero. If you don't know what FMV is on what you are asking for, it's your responsibility to find out. Again, I say this respectfully, as I think you are coming at this honestly, but I wanted to give you something to consider moving forward.

Edited June 22, 2021 by stinkininkin

[DeadpoolJr.]

1 hour ago, stinkininkin said:

Respectfully, your approach would not get my attention. Getting me to consider selling a not for sale piece from my collection in the current market would take a VERY aggressive offer right out of the gate. Asking if I have a number in mind pretty much shuts down all consideration from my end. I've had most of my art for decades, have no desire or need to sell, and would need to be offered outlier auction result prices to even get my brain engaged. Even then it's probably a no, but unless you come out with your guns blazing, your chances are less than zero. If you don't know what FMV is on what you are asking for, it's your responsibility to find out. Again, I say this respectfully, as I think you are coming at this honestly, but I wanted to give you something to consider moving forward.

That's fine, I didn't take it as a jab or anything like that. Just figure I share my method and what has at least worked for me. Though I do have different methods depending again if this is a seller or a coldcall.

[Bronty]

11 minutes ago, DeadpoolJr. said:

That's fine, I didn't take it as a jab or anything like that. Just figure I share my method and what has at least worked for me. Though I do have different methods depending again if this is a seller or a coldcall.

I think the issue that some sellers would have is that your method is contradictory:

1. "I usually ask the seller or person I approach first if they would be interested in selling/hearing an offer"; and

2. "I'll ask if they have a number in mind"

These two statements don't go together.     If you ask me if I want to hear an offer, and then effectively turn around and ask me to make one to you, you've pizzed  off a lot of sellers before we are two emails deep.    Some will put up with it if its a piece they want to dump, but this approach is exactly why people want to just send things to auction IMO.

I.e. if you do want to make an offer, make an offer.

If you want me to give you a price, then say so right away so that I can delete your email and not waste my time.    I don't mean that disrespectfully, but at that point you're fitting the profile of someone who I'm going to talk to for hours and not reach a deal with.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Bronty

[zhamlau]

I never get why people ask you about NFS items you have in your gallery, then say “what did you want for it?”…

 

I mean how goofy/lazy/entitled are some people!? They want to buy something you clearly love, are aggressive and getting your attention unsolicited….yet are still afraid of (god forbid) overpaying and want you to petition them with a price they can mull over.  Such a goofy “hobby”.

 

[sfilosa]

2 hours ago, DeadpoolJr. said:

That's fine, I didn't take it as a jab or anything like that. Just figure I share my method and what has at least worked for me. Though I do have different methods depending again if this is a seller or a coldcall.

Just keep doing what you are doing.

Apparently some people are very sensitive about someone offering to buying a piece of art and others (like myself) are not. I have bought a number of NFS pieces off of CAF and sold several NFS pieces. Yeah, I don't like when people make an offer for about what I bought it for (and they know that or should know that), but I just tell them "it wouldn't make sense for me to sell it for that price". I would say the only way I would get "offended" (and life is too short to get offended unless you are insulting my wife ) is if I said something like "Permanent Collection". Clearly that means, not going to sell. 

All that said, if it is a NFS piece, someone makes an offer and I say, "I wouldn't sell for less than $10k", either offer the $10k or not, but don't try to negotiate more. Remember, the piece was NFS and if someone is nice enough to give you a price, take it or leave it.

I will say the one other thing is if you are going to make an offer on a NFS, make sure the offer is significantly above what the piece would sell for in an auction. If they first wanted to sell at FMV, they would have already done that.

 

[exitmusicblue]

Big private sales proponent here.  Two of my best covers I got (around or under then-FMV) via negotiations on NFS works.  Unlike many of us here, some CAFers don't keep too abreast of their collections or the market, and don't realize until asked that they'd actually prefer to cash out at a given time for whatever reason(s).   Polite persistence is key.

I doubt I would've forked over the $$$ to win either cover in a hypothetical auction (supercharged environment) today.

Edited June 23, 2021 by exitmusicblue

[tth2]

6 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Asking if I have a number in mind pretty much shuts down all consideration from my end.

Exactly.  My immediate response would be "You're the one contacting me to buy my piece, so why are you asking me to propose a price?"

[thethedew]

On 6/21/2021 at 10:22 PM, Infamouspure22 said:

Guys that know me, know the piece I'm referring to. 

Personally, hope it doesn't come to that.  I like that piece exactly where it is.

[thethedew]

19 hours ago, zhamlau said:

...dealing with game players, goldbricks, and bludgers (which this “hobby” has a lot of).

Lookit you, throwin' around with the fancy obscure characterizations.

(Yeah, I had to look up two of them.  Me = Mediocre English Major )

[ExNihilo]

7 hours ago, tth2 said:

Exactly.  My immediate response would be "You're the one contacting me to buy my piece, so why are you asking me to propose a price?"

If someone asks for the price of a piece that's NFS, they should expect me to give a price that equates to whatever else I'm going to turn around and buy to replace the happiness attributed to the NFS piece.  Even if that price is 10x market value.  "You can't put a price on happiness" should really be "you can't put a REASONABLE price on happiness."  Of course, no one knows what emotional value an owner has to a piece, but they need to be prepared to understand that it's NFS for a reason.

[batman_fan]

Sometimes I wonder if there isn’t a unconnected group of people that just go through peoples art and make lowball offers on pieces hoping to snag something on the cheap.  I took down a lot of my stuff just because I got tired of all the “interested in selling?”  “How much ya want?”  “The piece is not real good but I am willing to take it off your hands”. “You have several pieces similar to the one I want which isn’t really that good but I am willing to take it off your hands”.

I do find the “I am open to offers” reply cuts the conversation short in about 1/2 the cases and for the other half that makes an offer a simple “that is less than I paid for the piece 15 years ago and I have offers on the table for 10x more than you offered” ends the conversation.