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What a shame!
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Started by Randall Dowling,

80 posts in this topic

BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

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15 minutes ago, G G ® ™ said:

I was just curious about the spine tick comment. Let's say this is correct and spine ticks (in production) don't effect grade. This would definitely affect sales. It would not affect fools who buy the label not the book. Those who set store by the appeal of the book first and foremost would be reluctant to drop big ackers on a book with spine ticks no matter what the grade I think, well particularly the people that acquire all the high end stuff anyway. Just a thought.

I'm also curious why something that happened in production would be ignored? Spine ticks, like overspray, and incorrect binding, are pretty hard to ignore.

Even the infamous white landing strip or miss wrap that gets a 9.9

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Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

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1 minute ago, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Even the infamous white landing strip or miss wrap that gets a 9.9

Yeah, that kind of thing is nonsense. Personally I was happiest in the hobby when the top grade was a 9.4, or NM as it was then. All this faffing about 9.6s, 9.8s and above is probably the biggest market con/manipulation of all time. 

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BabyAteMyDingo

BabyAteMyDingo

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I would prefer to see 9.9's as possessing perfect centering, lays flat on the table, white pages and NO production flaws. Even 9.8 books should have white pages. Many 9.8's have off-white or off white-white pages.

I commented on the Incredible Hulk 181 9.9 as having a spine tick that was color breaking. It can be seen 2/3rds of the way up the spine. Plus the lower right corner scuffing. Plus the upper right corner that was pointed out.

CGC and the grading companies used to be considered a guide, a ballpark estimate and nothing chiseled in stone. Have we all not had a book come back as an 8.0 and we KNEW it was near perfection and we gave it a 9.0 or 9.2 just to be humble? No torn or missing pages, no or minimal cover marks. It seems many collectors have decided grading companies are gospel. As long as there is conflicting opinions amongst collectors, no grade can be considered set in concrete. I think that is a fair assessment.

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BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

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15 minutes ago, BabyAteMyDingo said:

Is that right? I have been under the impression they absolutely do affect the grade. I now have a boatload of 7.5's that need to be regraded then.

:facepalm: “Some” spine ticks, probably that one, wth, not in general, lol.
It’s Friday sorry guys, been working 6 days a week.

@comicdonna @G G ® ™ @BabyAteMyDingo

@Beige @Randall Dowling

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Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

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3 minutes ago, BabyAteMyDingo said:

I would prefer to see 9.9's as possessing perfect centering, lays flat on the table, white pages and NO production flaws. Even 9.8 books should have white pages. Many 9.8's have off-white or off white-white pages.

I commented on the Incredible Hulk 181 9.9 as having a spine tick that was color breaking. It can be seen 2/3rds of the way up the spine. Plus the lower right corner scuffing. Plus the upper right corner that was pointed out.

CGC and the grading companies used to be considered a guide, a ballpark estimate and nothing chiseled in stone. Have we all not had a book come back as an 8.0 and we KNEW it was near perfection and we gave it a 9.0 or 9.2 just to be humble? No torn or missing pages, no or minimal cover marks. It seems many collectors have decided grading companies are gospel. As long as there is conflicting opinions amongst collectors, no grade can be considered set in concrete. I think that is a fair assessment.

I agree. Grading companies are certainly not gospel. They make mistakes...frequently. I've cracked way too many books out of slabs to know that. There have been some horror stories contained therein, let me tell you. Professional grading companies have been good for the hobby in terms of determining resto etc, but the market has escalated out of control as a result of label chasers. Collectors who actually love comic books are being priced out of the hobby every day. The super rich of course, it doesn't affect.

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BabyAteMyDingo

BabyAteMyDingo

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1 minute ago, BigLeagueCHEW said:

:facepalm: “Some” spine ticks, probably that one, wth, not in general, lol.
It’s Friday sorry guys, been working 6 days a week.

@comicdonna @G G ® ™ @BabyAteMyDingo

@Beige @Randall Dowling

I see ticks always as color breaking. Those "folded" ticks I consider a "buckle" or a "wrinkle", if you will. It seems like graders take off for those as well.

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BabyAteMyDingo

BabyAteMyDingo

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2 minutes ago, G G ® ™ said:

I agree. Grading companies are certainly not gospel. They make mistakes...frequently. I've cracked way too many books out of slabs to know that. There have been some horror stories contained therein, let me tell you. Professional grading companies have been good for the hobby in terms of determining resto etc, but the market has escalated out of control as a result of label chasers. Collectors who actually love comic books are being priced out of the hobby every day. The super rich of course, it doesn't affect.

This happens frequently I agree. When we were lads, we wished more people would understand our love of funny books. It came true and it has become a curse for the workaday collector.

I also agree a grading company finds its central value with determining restoration. I can always refuse to buy a book if it is clearly a 6.5 for example and they are asking 9.0 quid for it. I don't know enough about restoration to swing a dead cat at it.

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Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

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2 minutes ago, BabyAteMyDingo said:

I also agree a grading company finds its central value with determining restoration. I can always refuse to buy a book if it is clearly a 6.5 for example and they are asking 9.0 quid for it. I don't know enough about restoration to swing a dead cat at it.

I also don't think resto has the same stigma attached to it, it once had. If the book is right, and I want it badly enough, I can definitely live with a bit of resto. The snobbishness that surrounds it is definitely declining. 

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BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

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5 minutes ago, BabyAteMyDingo said:

I see ticks always as color breaking. Those "folded" ticks I consider a "buckle" or a "wrinkle", if you will. It seems like graders take off for those as well.

I had 2 ASM 344s that had these slight breaks or ticks on the outside spine that didn’t break very far.
You can see a tick that someone mashed the thumb on it to break the color.

These were small, but just stuck out like the one on the 181. Would be nice to see the tick up close on the 181 hm

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WolverineX

WolverineX

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6 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

This book (Brave and the Bold 61) is closing on Comic Connect tonight.  The current bid is way low for what it should sell for so I got interested.  It's one of my favorite covers of the DC Silver Age.

bra1_4827.thumb.jpg.693d645cda006b0a2e3114cf7ef7fda2.jpg

Gorgeous book, right?  Except it's sitting a little bit low in the case... So I looked at the back cover.  :facepalm:

bra1.4827b.thumb.jpg.4e8574e41a0004789087f8564f67024e.jpg

Really... this is becoming a very common occurrence with books that are in slabs.  I'm now beginning to think that the most risky thing you can do with a high grade book is to send it for grading.  If you follow the Grading and Restoration sub forum, books like this are showing up all the time now.  CGC has got to fix this so it doesn't keep happening.  SCS has been a problem since the beginning but each successive redesign of the case seems to make it worse.  I no longer find it acceptable for sellers to say "no returns on graded books" as you can easily get a book that is now an 8.0 in a 9.6 case.

Many of us have seen the IH 181 9.9 with the crushed corner.  I'm bringing this forward in the hope that CGC will take this seriously and figure out a better way because it's really sad to see a book that has been preserved for 50+ years in immaculate condition, only to get damaged when it's put into a slab.  Most of the seasoned collectors know the old adage of "Buy the book, not the label".  Unfortunately, this is in direct contravention of the very purpose for CGC to exist.  If you can't trust the number on the slab, what's the point.

I feel bad for the consignor.  But no one should buy this book without being made aware of that corner.

Darn I was bidding on that. 

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BabyAteMyDingo

BabyAteMyDingo

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21 minutes ago, BigLeagueCHEW said:

I had 2 ASM 344s that had these slight breaks or ticks on the outside spine that didn’t break very far.
You can see a tick that someone mashed the thumb on it to break the color.

These were small, but just stuck out like the one on the 181. Would be nice to see the tick up close on the 181 hm

I can readily see it even in the low quality picture. The bottom left corner is easily discernible.

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