Why Were 2 New X-Men Excluded From The GSX1 Cover? 1 1

[Cat]

Those 2 new X-Men being, of course, Banshee and Sunfire (new to the team at the time of publication, don't story retcon me, please!). Now, logically, I have a few guesses:(a) cover too crammed already to fit them in and make it seem comfortable to readers, (b) these characters had already been introduced to X-Men readers previously so it was felt redundant to include them again. But does anyone know the actual answer? 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Mecha_Fantastic
Clarity

[Lazyboy]

Sunfire was never a member of the team, so there was no reason to include him. I'm not sure about Banshee.

[followtheleader]

13 hours ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Those 2 new X-Men being, of course, Banshee and Sunfire (new to the team at the time of publication, don't story retcon me, please!). Now, logically, I have a few guesses: cover too crammed already to fit them in and make it seem comfortable to readers, these characters had already been introduced to X-Men readers previously so it was felt redundant to include them again. But does anyone know the actual answer? 

I know I should know this, but I'm honestly drawing a blank (bad memory at times). Could someone please kindly enlighten me, because I'm sure this is known? 

I'd guess the point was to focus on new characters.  
Sunfire and Banshee had been around for a long time. 

Only odd part is why Cyclops was included.  Not once, but twice.  Easily could have been one of the other two. 

Patrick 

[bronze_rules]

I'll do you one better... why was wolverine not on x-men 94 cover?

Banshee was.

Edited June 29, 2021 by bronze_rules

[Coolio McCool]

Character arcs were probably planned in advance. Banshee was a minor X-man and Sunfire was going to leave sanctimoniously after one issue, so why waste cover space on them?

So why bother with Thunderbird? Well they didn't want to spoil his death. Also notice that Thunderbird is the LEAST featured character on the cover. You have to admit that the best X-Men are featured most prominently, in hind-sight that cover couldn't be any better done.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Why does McDonald's advertise their french fries and not their double cheeseburgers?

[BigLeagueCHEW]

1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Why does McDonald's advertise their french fries and not their double cheeseburgers?

never noticed

[THE_BEYONDER]

8 hours ago, bronze_rules said:

I'll do you one better... why was wolverine not on x-men 94 cover?

Banshee was.

Wonder the same thing....

[Cat]

11 hours ago, Coolio McCool said:

Character arcs were probably planned in advance. Banshee was a minor X-man and Sunfire was going to leave sanctimoniously after one issue, so why waste cover space on them?

So why bother with Thunderbird? Well they didn't want to spoil his death. Also notice that Thunderbird is the LEAST featured character on the cover. You have to admit that the best X-Men are featured most prominently, in hind-sight that cover couldn't be any better done.

 

I REALLY love this answer, but I don't think it can be correct, based on the timeline. I consulted Dave Cockrum's interview in 'Comic Creators On X-Men' and he states he and Len had plotted out GSX 2 (essentially the plot of 94-95, but later statements clarify that the death was either not there or was a different character, it's not clear, although I assume nonexistent). He then states when Len had to drop out and Chris Claremont signed up as the new writer, the idea of doing the series of Giant Sizes was dropped, the regular series was confirmed, and they replotted a bit, adding in the death and deciding on Thunderbird. 

Reasonably all that couldn't have taken place before the production of the GSX1 cover. 

It also makes me think they had no idea at that stage that Banshee would be a minor character. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Mecha_Fantastic

[shadroch]

In the publicity for the New X-Men, Marvel made a big deal that the new group would be made of International heroes. It does seem strange that two of the foreign members wouldn't make the cover. 

[Lazyboy]

5 hours ago, Amazeron said:

Banshee and Sunfire had already made their debut in the X-men run. (#28 and #64, correct me if I’m wrong) The cover just showcased the new X-men most likely as a selling point. Plus Sunfire quit the X-men.

How do you quit something if you were never part of it? Sunfire accepted Xavier's request for help in GSX1 (though he almost left when he learned why he was needed) but, when they were forming the new team in X-Men 94, said that's all he came for and he was leaving.

[Cat]

Does anyone have any ideas on other references that could be consulted? I'd really love to dig deeper on this. Surely I can't be the first person to ask this question? 

[bronze_rules]

3 hours ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Does anyone have any ideas on other references that could be consulted? I'd really love to dig deeper on this. Surely I can't be the first person to ask this question? 

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-giant-size-x-men-thunderbird-sunfire-banshee/

 

"In speaking to the X-Men Companion's Peter Sanderson back in 1981, Cockrum recalled it being more of a matter where early on, they were going to have a few character "flunk" the original test for the new X-Men and they decided that Thunderbird should be one of them. The other two, though, were going to be Sunfire and...Banshee!

...

However, they then decided against the "flunking" X-Men idea, so now they had to come up with another way to get rid of Sunfire, who they didn't want on the team at all. So he just left in a huff..."

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-sunfire-giant-sized-x-men-joining/

"And in the initial version of the story, when the whole rescue mission was actually a secret training exercise, Banshee and Sunfire were both going to fail and that was how Wein was going to get them off of the team. That idea evolved into the concept of a new character dying on the team's second mission. "

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by bronze_rules

[Cat]

Hot dang, I think we have an answer! Great find @bronze_rules. Although would it not have still been odd to have spoiled the story like that on the cover? 

@Really?, I just assumed this was a commonly know thing, myself included, and I'd just forgotten the answer. I was surprised when I didn't get an instant response with the answer and an insult of some sort. Then I could have sworn it was in 'Comic Creators On X-Men'. Nope. Hmmm. And come to think of it, it's not something I've seen asked before either. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mecha_Fantastic

[ADAMANTIUM]

8 minutes ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Hot dang, I think we have an answer! Great find @bronze_rules. Although would it not have still been odd to have spoiled the story like that on the cover? 

@Really?, I just assumed this was a commonly know thing, myself included, and I'd just forgotten the answer. I was surprised when I didn't get an instant response with the answer and an insult of some sort. Then I could have sworn it was in 'Comic Creators On X-Men'. Nope. Hmmm. And come to think of it, it's not something I've seen asked before either. 

I think it came up or a type of the question did in the current GSXM x-men 94 thread in bronze 

 

But if you'd asked me what page, its needle meet 58 page haystack

Still an interesting question and a quote from writers at the time might be the top of the proverbial stck for the answer 

 

[Ken Aldred]

On 6/29/2021 at 7:04 AM, Coolio McCool said:

So why bother with Thunderbird? Well they didn't want to spoil his death. Also notice that Thunderbird is the LEAST featured character on the cover. You have to admit that the best X-Men are featured most prominently, in hind-sight that cover couldn't be any better done

The problem was that Wolverine and Thunderbird had very similar powers, and so one or the other was considered surplus to requirements.  It just so happened that the axe fell on Thunderbird. At the time, Wolverine was just as much a new and untested, equally disposable character.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[silverseeker]

1 hour ago, Ken Aldred said:

The problem was that Wolverine and Thunderbird had very similar powers, and so one or the other was considered surplus to requirements.  It just so happened that the axe fell on Thunderbird. At the time, Wolverine was just as much a new and untested, equally disposable character.

Crazy how much would have changed in our hobby if they flipped that decision...

[Ken Aldred]

3 minutes ago, silverseeker said:

Crazy how much would have changed in our hobby if they flipped that decision...

I liked Thunderbird, and was happy when his brother appeared in the 80s with similar abilities. Good character, same with Warpath.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

13 minutes ago, silverseeker said:

Crazy how much would have changed in our hobby if they flipped that decision...

Giant-Size X-Men would be the mega-key, and no reason why he couldn’t have been raised to a similar level as Wolverine.  A similar anger and intensity.  Chris Claremont later on created Forge, another Native American mutant, and no reason that Claremont and Byrne couldn’t eventually have made Thunderbird’s characterisation as three-dimensional as Logan’s.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[Cat]

5 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

I liked Thunderbird, and was happy when his brother appeared in the 80s with similar abilities. Good character, same with Warpath.

 

Warpath really started gaining traction at one stage, from X-Force (non-Liefeld Crain one) and then onto the X-Men proper circa Uncanny 475. He even got his first Marvel Legends figure around this time (I think he also got a 4inch version too), with a variant showing a more classic look. Things were really looking up for him. Then, they pushed him into the background for reasons unknown, he lost all his heat, and he hasn't really done a whole lot since compared to those 2 or 3 years.