The New Owners of CGC 8 8

[N e r V]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Love said:

I had one of those Spideys slabbed too. 

So aligned right wouldnt be a deal breaker for you?  I love high grade digests, they are actually obtainable. Difficult but doable, which is the kind of niche I like.  I passed on a large project to slab mine because I thought anything other than centered wouldnt fly with other collectors. 

 

I understand the technical limitations. So if it’s slab or no slab I’d always go with slab. Do you know what the problem of centering is? So why right and not left? Not sure what problem they are running into.  

[musicmeta]

1 hour ago, Larryw7 said:

I've heard he still submits books via a friend. Hopefully CGC catches it if he's up to his old tricks.

Yes. That would be great to catch him doing his old tricks.

[Dr. Love]

Matt didnt say, I didnt ask.

[Aman619]

57 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

More opinions on Blackstone, CGC and Voldy grading:

 

I don’t know this guy, maybe he’s very knowledgeable about comics?  But he is just rambling on about the CGC deal based on his limited personal experiences, full of generalizations like after a buyout the old owners slack off? Usually they don’t get all their money so when they stay on for a few years, they DONT slack off.  Their full payout has contingencies to protect the buyers.  And if they do get paid in full, they are gone so they can’t slack off.   And comparing Blackstone buying CGC to Becket buying Voldy is apples and oranges.  His problems at Voldy weren’t because of Beckett.  And Wall Street buying CGC is very different from a card company buying a grading service.    Anyway...  where is the rational inside scoop of how this went down instead of all this “who moved my cheese” whining ?

[Aman619]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Love said:

Matt didnt say, I didnt ask.

Odds are Matt will be spending a lot of time learning how to slab a LOT of objects in the coming months and years!  Lol

[Surfing Alien]

25 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I understand the technical limitations. So if it’s slab or no slab I’d always go with slab. Do you know what the problem of centering is? So why right and not left? Not sure what problem they are running into.  

I have mixed feelings about slabbing digests because I like collecting them still and finding bargains  But I agree with you that no one would be bothered about the centering. They could certainly do it. For sure the market would find out right quick how tough high grade digests are. 

But I feel almost all of the speculation about incremental improvements in comics, toys, cards, (pulps, digests possibilities) grading would be an incidental, slight profit sideline to them and dwarfed by the opportunity they have put together to manufacture brand new/modern sports rarities, whether physical or digital, and put an established grading company stamp of approval on it for peddling to the masses at high prices through big celebrity pitches etc. It feels like 1989/90 kind of.

 

[Aman619]

1 minute ago, Surfing Alien said:

I have mixed feelings about slabbing digests because I like collecting them still and finding bargains  But I agree with you that no one would be bothered about the centering. They could certainly do it. For sure the market would find out right quick how tough high grade digests are. 

But I feel almost all of the speculation about incremental improvements in comics, toys, cards, (pulps, digests possibilities) grading would be an incidental, slight profit sideline to them and dwarfed by the opportunity they have put together to manufacture brand new/modern sports rarities, whether physical or digital, and put an established grading company stamp of approval on it for peddling to the masses at high prices through big celebrity pitches etc. It feels like 1989/90 kind of.

 

I agree.  I think that’s what Blackstone see as CCGs potential for them. Which also means that preserving CCGs reputation is key to extending it into new areas of collectibles.  So what all the moaning and doomsaying???

[Surfing Alien]

3 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

I agree.  I think that’s what Blackstone see as CCGs potential for them. Which also means that preserving CCGs reputation is key to extending it into new areas of collectibles.  So what all the moaning and doomsaying???

I'm a pretty small fish and trying not to moan too much lol. I actually would love to see the Reform School Girl digest in a slab. She belongs there, she's way more striking than the comic book.

I agree they'd want to keep CCG's reputation good. My comment was more about inflating the market and people rushing in, getting burned and crushing it on the way out. That's not endless doom and gloom, just something I saw happen already and it bothered me as a collector back then.

[Aman619]

1 hour ago, Surfing Alien said:

I'm a pretty small fish and trying not to moan too much lol. I actually would love to see the Reform School Girl digest in a slab. She belongs there, she's way more striking than the comic book.

I agree they'd want to keep CCG's reputation good. My comment was more about inflating the market and people rushing in, getting burned and crushing it on the way out. That's not endless doom and gloom, just something I saw happen already and it bothered me as a collector back then.

Yes that’s the larger danger happening.  The COVID year has brought a lot of new enthusiastic buyers not afraid of current prices like we are …who frankly won’t all stick around. And Blackstone could explode the market further! But not sure Blackstone is just looking for short term profits, cause it will take years to expand CCG beyond the collectibles it already handles. 

[Surfing Alien]

13 minutes ago, Aman619 said:

cause it will take years to expand CCG beyond the collectibles it already handles. 

Agree. I actually hope that Blackstone dudes have been lurking on these boards and genuinely looking at likely, supportable ways to build, which will take ramp up time no matter how much money you throw at it.

Entropy may be the best friend of collectors who hope to see reasonable expansion.

[comicdonna]

37 minutes ago, Surfing Alien said:

Agree. I actually hope that Blackstone dudes have been lurking on these boards and genuinely looking at likely, supportable ways to build, which will take ramp up time no matter how much money you throw at it.

Entropy may be the best friend of collectors who hope to see reasonable expansion.

Blackstone will seek to accelerate CCG’s growth, enabling the company to invest significantly in its current and planned services, adding and training new employees, expanding its geographic and product reach, acquiring new technologies and developing its digital presence. Blackstone is one of the world’s leading investment firms with nearly $650 billion in assets under management and a strong track record of creating value and a positive impact for the companies it acquires and the communities that they serve.

C. C. Melvin Ike, Principal at Blackstone, said: “As thematic investors, we look for exceptional entrepreneurial teams succeeding in growing markets, and CCG is a great example. We have been closely following the rise of the global physical and digital collectibles industry for several years and we were drawn to CCG because of their leadership role in the categories that they serve, and Blackstone’s ability to grow the platform through both organic and inorganic initiatives. We look forward to working together to help the company continue and even accelerate its impressive growth trajectory.”

[jimjum12]

The first thing they'll do is a value analysis of the production stream. Increasing production is always the first goal. CGC will become a manufacturing facility and turnaround time will be brought under control and streamlined. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Buzzetta]

4 hours ago, N e r V said:

I think things like you’re talking about with rubber bands on GI Joes would  be factored in on grading standards by them. People in comics often forget that CGC has had an impact on what the collectors market generally accepts today with grading much like Overstreet did in the past. Love it or hate it, it’s a fact. I have a ton of toys like Hot Wheels or other blister cards where the glue and bubbles are fine. Those are now 50-60 years old. Storage is as important with toys as comics. Plastic and glue don’t like heat for extended periods.

Different with certain toys. 

Even stored in optimum conditions, certain toys, depending on the plastic mix are breaking.  GI Joes are cracking at the elbows no matter the temperature stored because the ABS plastic decomposes and the rivet is extending pressure on the joints.  This is why even those I know who follow all the 'vintage plastic storing' rules are finding MOC Joes with cracked elbows and / or jumbled parts in a blister.   The foam inserts from the Death Star and the Dagobah playsets are accepted to have long disintegrated over time.

Certain plastics are brittle or decompose quicker simply due to the recipe or chemical makeup, such as the opaque gold plastic used on certain figures and toys. Collectors cite Gold Plastic Syndrome on vintage Transformers as the bane of their existence.   The parts will not exhibit stress they will simply crumble under its own weight. Even Lego had a debacle as recent as 2011 when brown was heavily offered in plates and bricks.  The brown brick recipe became brittle within a year and were prone to crumbling.  

Point is... I believe it is a matter of when and not if, CCG enters the world of toys.  It will be interesting to see what their grading criteria is.  AFA is the gold standard and what they will be measured against and even AFA changes the rules around from time to time. 

[tth2]

6 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

I genuinely see CCG moving into toys. BUT... here is the thing... 

A lot of the toys that people have been slabbing have reached the point that they are starting to break down.  No one is sending Lionel Trains off to AFA.  But those GI Joes and MOTU He-Man figures that were sent off to AFA at the company's inception are starting to break down.  There was a reason I sold the bulk of my GI Joe collection last year.  Prices went up but I did not want to risk holding a hot potato that broke down in my hand. 

There are two toy grading companies of any value and AFA is far ahead of the competition.  The thing is that the rules are not established across the board.  I will use GI Joe again as an example.  Recently I have been reading that AFA is not grading loose GI Joe figures where the rubber band has been replaced as the toy is considered altered.  Here is the thing.  I don't know of a GI Joe figure of any value that has NOT had the rubber band replaced that still appears in decent shape.   A stretched rubber band tends to break down over the course of 40 years.   You cannot leave them on the card because there are plenty of graded samples of MOTU and Joe figures that are broken on those cards and are jumbles of parts. 

So if CCG moves into toys I am interested in seeing what standards they adopt.  I also don't know how the industry will embrace them considering that there seem to be a lot of people that have graded toys that are breaking within the acrylic casing.  The glue that holds the bubble to the card only weakens over time.  The Star Wars bubbles are decomposing on the card.  Joes are composed of the most brittle plastic ever manufactured.  They are drying out and the rubber bands are drying out and breaking.

So... I am curious as to how this is going to play out. 

In summary, comic collectors are smarter than toy collectors! 

[Buzzetta]

Just now, tth2 said:

In summary, comic collectors are smarter than toy collectors! 

 

The plastics were never made to last.   I remember when there was a trend to poke a pinhole into the card right behind the bubble on vintage Star Wars figures in the hopes that this was be a release for some of the off gassing of the plastics.   The plastic in vintage SW figures have a composition (many of them anyway) that as they break down there is a gummy or sticky feel to the figure. Joes were made with a composition that made them brittle over time.  In some cases the plastic was designed a with a different recipe like the tow hook on the Wolverine, it actually shrinks over the years no matter how you store it so collectors do not normally mount it on the vehicle so that it does not snap. 

On Joes it is generally accepted that the plastics used in certain years cast in certain colors is more prone to breakage than others.  I know guys that are very careful with their collection and even they are seeing in the last two years that father time is catching up. 

Comic collectors are dealing with items that absorb moisture and become brittle if exposed to dry heat like you find in an attic.   They are actually pretty resilient even if left to themselves in piles.

Toys from the 70's -90's not so much. 

[N e r V]

Correct storage will never stop age damage only slow it down. That’s why a comic with LT/OW pages could still be the same with good storage in 10 years from now but a C/OW page book today could easily be brittle in a decade if not stored correctly. 
 

Yes toys have different condition problems depending on the toy and the materials they used that’s unavoidable so it’s up to the collecting community to make those calls on what’s reasonable to accept in grading just like comics did and does. Most the major toy collectors have their own Overstreet terms when they grade although I will say comics are probably more advanced than most of them. It might be good to have a CGC type come into a sector like GI Joes or Megos or Hot Wheels with more clarity on reasonable grading expectations based on that toys limitations.

Nothing though, even comics don’t stay the same no matter how well preserved. I bought BA books off the stands and no 9.6’s or 9.8’s BA books today are as crisp as I remember buying them new off the stands. Time waits for nothing…

[tth2]

I love how most of the rest of the world is worried that plastics will never break down or go away, but there is one group in the world who are worried by how fast plastics are breaking down and going away.

[N e r V]

Just now, tth2 said:

I love how most of the rest of the world is worried that plastics will never break down or go away, but there is one group in the world who are worried by how fast plastics are breaking down and going away.

You forgot to mention we are asking for our plastic items to be encased in more plastics too…

[Cat-Man_America]

17 minutes ago, N e r V said:

You forgot to mention we are asking for our plastic items to be encased in more plastics too…

 

[N e r V]

9 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

 

I love that scene. Truly visionary…