Does CGC really give priority by tiers? Doesn't look that way to me. 2 2

[NewWorldOrder]

3 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Blackrock will laugh at that excuse.  They will say that employees can always be trained.  And they would be right.  CGC is going to have to train up staff to conform to its standards.  

Well good they can pay me over 200K to come and work at CGC then problem solved.

Also its is very short list of people who can grade all comics in general.

Modern post 2000 = Very easy

Copper/Early Modern = not hard, but not easy

Silver/Bronze = difficult 

Gold = Very difficult 

Some of the best graders I know do not work at CGC.  So how do you get them to stop making all that money and move to FL?

Edited July 13, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[sfcityduck]

9 minutes ago, NewWorldOrder said:

 

Copper/Early Modern = not hard, but not easy

Silver/Bronze = difficult 

Gold = Very difficult 

As a guy who has been collecting Gold/Siler/Bronze/Copper since the 1970s, I'm wondering what grading schools you think we all went to?  Grading was a self-taught skill, and any consensus that has evolved is a product of consistent standards that gained traction through folks like Overstreet, Fishler and Borock.  CGC's standards are not necessarily the same as some other folks (some are strictert others less so), but CGC can train its folks to conform to the standards.

Edited July 13, 2021 by sfcityduck

[NewWorldOrder]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

As a guy who has been collecting Gold/Siler/Bronze/Copper since the 1970s, I'm wondering what grading schools you think we all went to?  Grading was a self-taught skill, and any consensus that has evolved is a product of consistent standards that gained traction through folks like Overstreet, Fishler and Borock.  CGC's standards are not necessarily the same as some other folks (some are strictert others less so), but CGC can train its folks to conform to the standards.

Ok I will be nice

Edited July 13, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[sfcityduck]

2 minutes ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Well good they can pay me over 200K to come and work at CGC then problem solved.

 

CGC already has competent graders who can train others.  

[NewWorldOrder]

2 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

CGC already has competent graders who can train others.  

Ok guy!  

[sfcityduck]

Just now, NewWorldOrder said:

Well I know I can grade better than you. 

As I said, no need to be childish in the "defense" of CGC.  You have never met me or have any basis for that comment.  It's credibility eroding.

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Ok guy!  

Which means?

Edited July 13, 2021 by sfcityduck

[VintageComics]

I can only imagine how long I'd be shadow banned from this forum for if I made half the posts in this thread (not picking on anyone in particular except for the boardies who like to notify mods whenever I make too many posts )

I've gotten 3 week bands posting 3 times in a row.

You guys are both sort of right.

The problem is that CGC had to draw a line somewhere and that is going to make wherever you draw the line an outlier for both sides.

For the pre 1975 side of the outlier most of the books closest to the line are going to look too expensive and for those on the post 1975 line they are going to look cheap.

That's why I think Capra is right in talking about averages.

And CGC won't state which books take longer to grade because that sort of knowledge is inherently proprietary but it's implied through their pricing structure and those of us who know how to grade and have been following CGC read between the lines and understand this.

[NewWorldOrder]

7 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

As I said, no need to be childish in the "defense" of CGC.  You have never met me or have any basis for that comment.  It's credibility eroding.

Nothing childish about it I dont need to meet you.  I am confident you aren't on that short list of people who are professional graders.  Not a jab just the truth.

Let me ask you this.  Could you right now fly to CGC and grade just as good as anyone that currently works there?

Honest question.

Edited July 13, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[VintageComics]

7 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

CGC already has competent graders who can train others.  

It's not a matter of training. It's a matter of economics.

What he's saying is if someone can grade really well and they can make more money being a dealer, why would they take a job as a grader?

[sfcityduck]

Just now, NewWorldOrder said:

Nothing childish about it I dont need to meet you.  I am confident you aren't on that short list of people who are professional graders.  Not a jab just the truth.

The "short list of people who are professional graders" is not the universe of people who can grade.  Several of the guys with the best collections I can think of, many of the best copies of GA keys, have those books raw, have never been paid to grade, yet can accurately grade their books and have made historically famous upgrades using those skills.  I am a little surprised that some folks act like comic collecting began with CGC.  It did not.  

[sfcityduck]

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

It's not a matter of training. It's a matter of economics.

What he's saying is if someone can grade really well and they can make more money being a dealer, why would they take a job as a grader?

I would not expect CGC to hire successful dealers to be their graders.  So I don't see your point.  You can train people how to grade.  

[VintageComics]

1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

I would not expect CGC to hire successful dealers to be their graders.  So I don't see your point.  You can train people how to grade.  

Employee retention.

The main reason I would never hire someone to work for me is because once I teach them everything I know and then they are free to leave and become a competitor.

Maybe not everyone has the drive to do that (become self employeed) but enough people would that I would hesitate to teach anyone what has taken me 20 years to learn on my own.

It's a very common dynamic in any field, not just comics.

Like, for example when people leave government jobs and skip over into the private sector to earn more money.

The problem is not finding people to train. The problem is keeping them after you train them.

[NewWorldOrder]

1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

The "short list of people who are professional graders" is not the universe of people who can grade.  Several of the guys with the best collections I can think of, many of the best copies of GA keys, have those books raw, have never been paid to grade, yet can accurately grade their books and have made historically famous upgrades using those skills.  I am a little surprised that some folks act like comic collecting began with CGC.  It did not.  

Of course, but what CGC did was make people in the collecting community better graders overall through submissions and more money on the line.  I grew up unfortunately in the worse decade ever for comics 1990's! (Well I do like pre-unity valiant). I remember going to shows and grading was just awful.  Grading has evolved and I am sorry but its easy to just say a book is low, mid, or High Grade.  The real skill is can you tell the difference between 3.0 and 4.0, 8.0 8.5, and 9.2 and 9.4 for example.  Most cant, even long term dealers and collectors.  Sorry its the hard truth.  Again it's a very short list who can. 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

7 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

I would not expect CGC to hire successful dealers to be their graders.  So I don't see your point.  You can train people how to grade.  

Well thats again what you aren't understanding.  Two people that can grade are telling you its not that easy to just cross train people.

I have tried to teach a couple people to grade both vintage and modern.  They still cant do it consistently, and they take it very seriously.

Edited July 13, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[sfcityduck]

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

 

The problem is not finding people to train. The problem is keeping them after you train them.

They have nowhere to go.  CGC dominates the field.  Short of a highly respected industry player coming across enough capital to scale up to CGC levels and beyond almost immediately, losing employees is not a concern.  I suspect that CGC views the bulk of its graders as fungible.

[VintageComics]

Just now, sfcityduck said:

They have nowhere to go.  CGC dominates the field.  Short of a highly respected industry player coming across enough capital to scale up to CGC levels and beyond almost immediately, losing employees is not a concern.  I suspect that CGC views the bulk of its graders as fungible.

OK, let's turn this flip this to take it from your perspective. 

I'm considered a good grader by my peers although I've never been formally trained. Some of my own peers, have told me I might be one of the best (short of anyone who has officially been trained by CGC).

Why in the world would I go work for CGC?

You seem to have an answer to everything so answer that.

[sfcityduck]

4 minutes ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Of course, but what CGC did was make people in the collecting community better graders overall through submissions and more money on the line.  I grew up unfortunately in the worse decade ever for comics 1990's! (Well I do like pre-unity valiant). I remember going to shows and grading was just awful.  Grading has evolved and I am sorry but its easy to just say a book is low, mid, or High Grade.  The real skill is can you tell the difference between 3.0 and 4.0, 8.0 8.5, and 9.2 and 9.4 for example.  Most cant, even long term dealers and collectors.  Sorry its the hard truth.  Again it's a very short list who can. 

 

No.  That's just a question of conforming to a grading criteria.  The problem with grading is that it is not objective.  It is made up, and there has never been complete consensus.  CGC itself goes through hard and soft periods and grading varies at CGC with plenty of head scratchers.  But, CGC should have no problem training people up to conform to its criteria.  Because CGC has its own criteria, it does not have to worry about the lack of consensus as to grading criteria.  It just has to strive for internal consistency, and that's very teachable.  In many ways, they might be better off avoiding folks who have been longterm graders because they may not quite jive with CGC's views.

[sfcityduck]

Just now, VintageComics said:

OK, let's turn this flip this to take it from your perspective. 

I'm considered a good grader by my peers although I've never been formally trained. Some of my own peers, have told me I might be one of the best (short of anyone who has officially been trained by CGC).

Why in the world would I go work for CGC?

You seem to have an answer to everything so answer that.

I said earlier that I would not expect you to.  I also suspect you have seen plenty of CGC grades with which you disagreed.  

[NewWorldOrder]

2 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

They have nowhere to go.  CGC dominates the field.  Short of a highly respected industry player coming across enough capital to scale up to CGC levels and beyond almost immediately, losing employees is not a concern.  I suspect that CGC views the bulk of its graders as fungible.

No they dont.

If CGC looses one vintage grader it's a big deal.  They don't fall off trees as you seem to think, especially when the best vintage graders make 10x more than what CGC can offer them trust me on that.

Also you want to train a vintage grader?  Well than TaT will suffer short-term because that current vintage grader now must train a new employee in the hope they will stay and be good going forward.  

Like I said why dont you apply to CGC and see if you can be a grader?  That would help them out right?