Ron Lim art art is $33,000 now?!? WTF 1 1

[Verbow]

On 7/24/2021 at 2:05 PM, grapeape said:

Will Albert Bechara Mike B Glen are market influencers.They are business men and it’s their job to make a living pushing the market to find the highest bearable sale point. Heritage and Comic Link are “Fair Market” price point setters. Collectors or investors have to figure out what’s real and what’s smoke and mirrors (good luck)

The line gets further blurred because those same dealers are also on the auction sites - and if they overpay who cares?   They’re establishing a new “baseline” they’ll profit from down the road 

[cloud cloddie]

On 7/24/2021 at 1:39 PM, Verbow said:

The line gets further blurred because those same dealers are also on the auction sites - and if they overpay who cares?   They’re establishing a new “baseline” they’ll profit from down the road 

Yeah, ‘influencer’ is a generous term for some of those guys. 

[grapeape]

On 7/24/2021 at 1:39 PM, Verbow said:

The line gets further blurred because those same dealers are also on the auction sites - and if they overpay who cares?   They’re establishing a new “baseline” they’ll profit from down the road 

Well there is truth to that. I always wonder if I’m trying to bid and win artist X who is hard to get:

• what collector or dealer(s) is holding a large share of “hard” to find art

• what are they charging? Are they selling or is it inquire or offer stupid money?

• is that collector with the large stake investment bidding me up to protect an established market value (baseline) or even push the X artist to a new stratosphere?

This used to be a fun hobby. It’s now the Wild West if you get in over your head. But there are many avenues to avoid the headaches. Buy what you love but don’t get into a poker game with the house. They have more money, more time and more ways to beat you. Stay in your lane and arrive home safe.

 

[Rick2you2]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:59 PM, grapeape said:

Well there is truth to that. I always wonder if I’m trying to bid and win artist X who is hard to get:

• what collector or dealer(s) is holding a large share of “hard” to find art

• what are they charging? Are they selling or is it inquire or offer stupid money?

• is that collector with the large stake investment bidding me up to protect an established market value (baseline) or even push the X artist to a new stratosphere?

This used to be a fun hobby. It’s now the Wild West if you get in over your head. But there are many avenues to avoid the headaches. Buy what you love but don’t get into a poker game with the house. They have more money, more time and more ways to beat you. Stay in your lane and arrive home safe.

 

It's a lot more fun if you stay away from nostalgia-based purchases because you read the published version as a kid. If you love it that much, buy the comic book again.

There is a lot of new and old stuff that is not fan fav material but is great. Love what's easier to stomach. I do, and I almost never get a stomach ache.

I just bought this, with a separate pencil page, for all of $350. Have I spent more? Of course, would I spend more on other pieces? Yes. But this was a fun buy.

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Rick2you2

[grapeape]

On 7/24/2021 at 2:43 PM, Rick2you2 said:

It's a lot more fun if you stay away from nostalgia-based purchases because you read the published version as a kid. If you love it that much, buy the comic book again.

There is a lot of new and old stuff that is not fan fav material but is great. Love what's easier to stomach. I do, and I almost never get a stomach ache.

I just bought this, with a separate pencil page, for all of $350. Have I spent more? Of course, would I spend more on other pieces? Yes. But this was a fun buy.

 

I like this one very much. Very good things come with smaller price tags. It just takes some investigation. Can you tell us a little more about this one my friend?

 

[Xatari]

On 7/24/2021 at 7:05 AM, tth2 said:

I understand criticizing Ron Lim, but I don't understand using Journ Buscema as the benchmark.

I don’t understand criticizing Ron Lim to be honest. Ron is a great guy and a great artist. Some thoughts should remain “inside thoughts” and not every opinion needs to be expressed in prose on a public forum. 

[PhilipB2k17]

I started a thread a few years ago about how IG art was becoming the next Watchmen. I also pointed out that Lim IG art was a cheap buy then as it would eventually start catching up with the Perez pages because younger collectors just don’t care about the distinction and like Lim’s cosmic art style. 
 

I agree $33k is crazy for this page. But I predicted this. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:38 PM, Xatari said:

I don’t understand criticizing Ron Lim to be honest. Ron is a great guy and a great artist. Some thoughts should remain “inside thoughts” and not every opinion needs to be expressed in prose on a public forum. 

Agreed. 

[vodou]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:38 PM, Xatari said:

and not every opinion needs to be expressed

Wrong  

[artdealer]

On 7/24/2021 at 3:05 PM, grapeape said:

Race you’re not crazy. Art is subjective and toss in speculation shake well with fair market value reduced common sense dressing and you get today’s mixed salad art market.

Saying Buscema is better then Lim is like saying Muhammad Ali would clobber Rocky. Obvious. The art market is far more complicated then that. Money goes where collectors hearts go. Or where an investor believes their return will bloom.

Will Albert Bechara Mike B Glen are market influencers.They are business men and it’s their job to make a living pushing the market to find the highest bearable sale point. Heritage and Comic Link are “Fair Market” price point setters. Collectors or investors have to figure out what’s real and what’s smoke and mirrors (good luck)

If you want to survive make friends and network. You have to find some art on your own before it reaches the price setters. Hell Comic Connect (uggh) has a Buscema page with only one Surfer panel and Shala Bal for $11,000. It’s been sitting on their site for over a year. I saw it in person yesterday. Stunning art. I mean gorgeous. But flashy? Battles? Nah?

I don’t know if people are crazy ( but art collectors are). How they spend their money hah hah is a part of the Magic!

Maybe “market manipulators “ more than influencers. 

[artdealer]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:39 PM, Verbow said:

The line gets further blurred because those same dealers are also on the auction sites - and if they overpay who cares?   They’re establishing a new “baseline” they’ll profit from down the road 

I think the only people those dealers are fooling are themselves. 
Especially if they think they are “influencers”.

Edited July 24, 2021 by artdealer

[zhamlau]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:59 PM, grapeape said:

 

This used to be a fun hobby. 

 

This hasn’t been a hobby for a while, not at these prices across the board.

[vodou]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:59 PM, grapeape said:

This used to be a fun hobby.

It's just fine. If you're not stupid.

 

On 7/24/2021 at 8:13 PM, zhamlau said:

This hasn’t been a hobby for a while, not at these prices across the board.

You're looking at the wrong stuff  

I bought more pieces and spent more money in 2020 than I have in almost 20 years.

Deals and steals...everywhere  

[grapeape]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:07 PM, artdealer said:

I think the only people those dealers are fooling are themselves. 
Especially if they think they are “influencers”.

Mitch I hear you. I always appreciated your business model. Still I remember buying an “overpriced” piece from Conrad Eschenberg back in the nineties. Here were examples of objections I faced.

• Don’t buy from the guy his prices are from outer space

• Nobody sells art that high

• No comparable sales for that stuff

But I did buy one thing. I should’ve bought more. Was he manipulating the market? I don’t know. 
I get that between dealers there’s some serious bad blood? Or disagreements on best practices?

I’m always trying to preach to those of us playing in this game. Don’t hate the game. Figure it out and beat it. I hate the sad stories out here. The rip offs. The counterfeits. The stolen art. The shady greedy practices I hate the shill and all the games.

But I want to play. I’m determined to win. 
 

I don’t know if that Lim piece is worth $33K. If it sells then it is. Here’s the thing. If it sells, that is if you see SOLD in the next month, did it sell for $33k...$25 k and trade? So on and so forth. Will the next listed LIM be  based on that SOLD and be $40k? That’s where Mitch is getting feisty and I get it. But I don’t want the message to be lost especially to the new folks getting involved. 
Learn the game. Don’t be rash. Do your research. Make friends. Watch your budget. Win.

 

[grapeape]

On 7/24/2021 at 5:31 PM, vodou said:

It's just fine. If you're not stupid.

 

You're looking at the wrong stuff  

I bought more pieces and spent more money in 2020 than I have in almost 20 years.

Deals and steals...everywhere  

Freaking love Ron White how has he avoided being canceled 😂 

[Xatari]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:43 AM, Race said:

I was out of the market for a while so I'm still adjusting to pricing, but I have to call this out: NO Ron Lim art should be worth anywhere near $33,000, period.

I actually know of two particular Ron Lim pieces that had private offers of over $150k about a month ago but were still declined by the owner. Granted, both were covers but the fact remains. 

[grapeape]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:06 PM, Xatari said:

I actually know of two particular Ron Lim pieces that had private offers of over $150k about a month ago but were still declined by the owner. Granted, both were covers but the fact remains. 

Xatari art is worth whatever a collector or investor is willing to pay. We may have our opinions of who is the best or better artist. But I have no doubt there are people willing to pay the figures you mentioned for Ron’s art. I certainly am not one to tell people how to spend their money ( that’s a lie I do it all the time) Ron’s been very popular since the late eighties. And yes whoever said it he is a very nice guy.

Still I get the visceral reactions (Race and all of us frankly) have to pricing we deem outrageous. It’s why I mentioned Buscema at $11,000. Some people think at least for that non action page the ask is too much. Somebody will buy it though. It’s really gorgeous at 1/3 price of the Lim.  

Im pretty sure the Lim will sell also.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by grapeape

[Xatari]

There is certainly a lot going on in our hobby. I think above all we just need to make sure we aren’t disrespecting artists or each other.

I joined the community a little over a year ago, and it was a big turnoff. I quickly realized there are a very vocal salty few who love to 💩 post. It’s a turnoff to new collectors whom we should be embracing.

While I’ve come to realize it is a small faction of members who do this, it was enough to encourage me to keep silent about my own collecting joy for quite some time as I didn’t want to be the subject of someone else’s keyboard targeting system.

I think it was Thumper’s mom who told him, “If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all.”  This is probably a good rule of thumb for a relatively small community posting on a public forum. 

[vodou]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:44 PM, grapeape said:

how has he avoided being canceled 😂 

He's from Texas.

Duh.

Me too  

[vodou]

On 7/24/2021 at 9:23 PM, Bill C said:

it does seem like a lot of people in general are very easily manipulated, so who knows lol...