Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[comicwiz]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:24 PM, Wolverinex said:

Obviously , this topic is taking a hold in our community. I wonder if the video game Community is discussing this as well? Are there any video game forums similar to Cgc?

Yes. People were raising concerns from two years ago: https://www.videogamesage.com/forums/topic/566-wata-a-year-and-a-half-after/page/12/

[comicwiz]

The discussion over the video happened in a "Heritage Auctions Thread" that became a catch-all discussion thread (another post of the video alone was locked), but it picks up from Seth's most recent article here.

Edited August 31, 2021 by comicwiz

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:09 PM, comicwiz said:

The discussion over the video happened in a "Heritage Auctions Thread" that became a catch-all discussion thread (another post of the video alone was locked), but it picks up from Seth's most recent article here.

 

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:14 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

Not saying this is really happening, but if it does that is the textbook definition of a market crash.

[comicwiz]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:14 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

Been happening from the time the video was released.

[Dark Knight]

Haspel still has his WATA graded games up for sale on ebay .  Yeah those older Atari games are tough to come by in higher grade and even almost impossible to get perfect seals on them which is an A++ and he has practically all of em with perfect seals.

https://www.ebay.com/str/vintagecomicsonparade?_sop=16&rt=nc

[WolverineX]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:01 PM, Dark Knight said:

Haspel still has his WATA graded games up for sale on ebay .  Yeah those older Atari games are tough to come by in higher grade and even almost impossible to get perfect seals on them which is an A++ and he has practically all of em with perfect seals.

https://www.ebay.com/str/vintagecomicsonparade?_sop=16&rt=nc

Better screenshot those.   I bet they will be gone soon

[Sweet Lou 14]

I don't collect video games but what I've learned from all of this is that for some reason, the games that I would personally consider the most desirable as collectibles -- basically those original Atari 2600 games and that first round of Activision games that raised the bar -- are not really the ones fetching the best prices.

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that the original Super Mario Bros. game would be a major collectible (#1, I gather?) since it launched one franchise (Nintendo consoles in general) and sort-of launched another (all things Mario -- which of course really started with the Donkey Kong arcade game).  But I would have expected much more love for the Atari.  The Atari 2600 changed my life as a 10-year-old kid, and it set me on the path of wanting to be a software developer before I even knew exactly what that meant.  I have never looked back.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Sweet Lou 14

[jaybuck43]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:01 PM, Dark Knight said:

Haspel still has his WATA graded games up for sale on ebay .  Yeah those older Atari games are tough to come by in higher grade and even almost impossible to get perfect seals on them which is an A++ and he has practically all of em with perfect seals.

https://www.ebay.com/str/vintagecomicsonparade?_sop=16&rt=nc

Another interesting thing.  Check out his feedback.  Every sale is a best offer accepted.  BUT when you run down the sales, the best offers were all the same as the listing price.  

[COI]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:53 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

What he's doing, by requiring "an actual journalist and not a YouTuber", is arguing from authority rather than telling you how/why it's wrong. It's a logical fallacy.

Most of the people here are doing the exact same type of motivated reasoning. Quick to point out the reasoning flaws in anyone holding the opposing view, then all is silent when the tables are turned.

Tons of reasoning errors, leaps in logic and clear exaggerations have been pointed out in both the video and Abramson's writing throughout this thread; they are the ones making claims and accusations; the burden of proof is on them, not Dan who's on vacation with his kid. Why not scan the video and Abramson's substack for logical fallacies too, because I can assure you, you'll find tons.

[WolverineX]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:27 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Another interesting thing.  Check out his feedback.  Every sale is a best offer accepted.  BUT when you run down the sales, the best offers were all the same as the listing price.  

Interesting... yeah lots of data to be mined from this before it disappears

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

No love for the Magnavox Odyssey or The Odyssey II..... 

[Bird]

On 8/31/2021 at 11:03 AM, Bronty said:

I am on vacation and want to enjoy it.    I am also out of time and energy to invest in this thread guys.   I’m cutting the Haspel discussion shorter than I’d like but it’s time to row my daughter around the lake.   Peace. 

I packed my youngest off to college this week, I agree, enjoy it while you can.

[Bird]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:34 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

No love for the Magnavox Odyssey or The Odyssey II..... 

my brother still has the pong set we got as kids; my dad worked for Allstate which was located in a Sears store so he got us one first year. He hooked it up a few years ago and played it.

[kav]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:28 PM, COI said:

Most of the people here are doing the exact same type of motivated reasoning. Quick to point out the reasoning flaws in anyone holding the opposing view, then all is silent when the tables are turned.

Tons of reasoning errors, leaps in logic and clear exaggerations have been pointed out in both the video and Abramson's writing throughout this thread; they are the ones making claims and accusations; the burden of proof is on them, not Dan who's on vacation with his kid. Why not scan the video and Abramson's substack for logical fallacies too, because I can assure you, you'll find tons.

Can I ask what would be the smoking gun for you?

[jimjum12]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:02 AM, Transplant said:

Employee vs contractor vs paid advisor is a funny hill to defend. 

... not directed at you specifically 

... this first needs to be established before it needs to be defended. Show me the paper trail instead of this "my percieved ethics are better than your percieved ethics" verbal musical chairs game. I'm seeing more than one person reiterate over and over about transgressions committed before 1989 ... sheesh, I can't even remember 1989 without the snapshot binder. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[COI]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I don't collect video games but what I've learned from all of this is that for some reason, the games that I would personally consider the most desirable as collectibles -- basically those original Atari 2600 games and that first round of Activision games that raised the bar -- are not really the ones fetching the best prices.

I guess it shouldn't be surprising that the original Super Mario Bros. game would be a major collectible (#1, I gather?) since it launched one franchise (Nintendo consoles in general) and sort-of launched another (all things Mario -- which of course really started with the Donkey Kong arcade game).  But I would have expected much more love for the Atari.  The Atari 2600 changed my life as a 10-year-old kid, and it set me on the path of wanting to be a software developer before I even knew exactly what that meant.  I have never looked back.

I think the reason for this is the ongoing relevance of Nintendo and Mario games in modern gaming, combined with a sort of happenstance when it comes to the tech and what types of games age well and what types don't.

For example, I think 2D games from the Nintendo and Super Nintendo/8-16 bit era are aging better than Atari, based on the technical limits of the Atari and how "playable" they are by today's standards. But I also think the 8 and 16 bit era is aging better than most PS1/N64 games, because that era was where we got those first awkward steps into 3D, which in many cases both look and play really rough today. 

I grew up with the NES, but I'm one of those who likes playing modern games way more than retro games. I'm more interested in where the hobby is going than where it has been, and as a result I've become more attached to Playstation and even XBox than I ever was to Nintendo. Even still, I can see how much more playable the best 8 and 16 bit era games are today than are those early 3D games.

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:47 PM, COI said:

I think the reason for this is the ongoing relevance of Nintendo and Mario games in modern gaming, combined with a sort of happenstance when it comes to the tech and what types of games age well and what types don't.

For example, I think 2D games from the Nintendo and Super Nintendo/8-16 bit era are aging better than Atari, based on the technical limits of the Atari and how "playable" they are by today's standards. But I also think the 8 and 16 bit era is aging better than most PS1/N64 games, because that era was where we got those first awkward steps into 3D, which in many cases both look and play really rough today. 

I grew up with the NES, but I'm one of those who likes playing modern games way more than retro games. I'm more interested in where the hobby is going than where it has been, and as a result I've become more attached to Playstation and even XBox than I ever was to Nintendo. Even still, I can see how much more playable the best 8 and 16 bit era games are today than are those early 3D games.

Honest question, what does how "playable" a game is today have to do with anything when these are all sealed in shrink-wrapped boxes?

If this is all (or mostly) about nostalgia, it shouldn't be about how well a game ages by today's standards, it should be about how that game made you feel as a kid.  Some of the least impressive games from a purely visual standpoint (Zork anyone?) are among the all-time greats in terms of how much they dominated the public consciousness in their time.

[COI]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:38 PM, kav said:

Can I ask what would be the smoking gun for you?

It depends on what the claim is.

If the claim, broadly, is that auction houses and grading companies play all sorts of games, then I'm convinced. I was convinced before this thread, and I remain convinced.

When you get into words like "fraud", and you want to make the argument that some new asset class or financial instrument is being created that threatens to undermine the American economy, akin to the 2008 financial crisis, then, to put it lightly, the standard of evidence goes up. 

[COI]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:54 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Honest question, what does how "playable" a game is today have to do with anything when these are all sealed in shrink-wrapped boxes?

If this is all (or mostly) about nostalgia, it shouldn't be about how well a game ages by today's standards, it should be about how that game made you feel as a kid.  Some of the least impressive games from a purely visual standpoint (Zork anyone?) are among the all-time greats in terms of how much they dominated the public consciousness in their time.

Because this isn't all about nostalgia, just like in comics. I thought we mostly agreed that there's lots of speculation going on here, and this isn't real collector demand?  So the games that are going to hit the stratosphere are the games that people with money speculate will hit the stratosphere and hold up as "blue chip", so the things I've mentioned become relevant. 

Even just on the collector side, I grew up in the '80s and early '90s, but ended up collecting SA comics. This is often the case in collecting; people start where they start, then go into the history. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by COI