Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[skypinkblu]

Just to stop any rumors...the thread was locked because 26 posts were removed. Most of those posts were just hidden because they quoted posts that needed to be removed.  Nothing was removed because it related to the topic, just stuff that belonged in a schoolyard.

 

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:55 PM, Buzzetta said:

Look I have no skin in this game when it comes to video games... I passed on a PS5 the other day at retail and the most gaming I do these days are Simpsons Tapped out and Marvel Puzzle Quest. 

I am not buying nor selling games. 

Why does it matter? (sigh)

I didn't know about it.  It reframes the positions around here. If Dan was the seller and given the article that he spent a large sum of money to acquire these games in the first place, he has a vested interest in them maintaining their current value in the marketplace regardless of how the marketplace arrived at that number. 

As I stated before, this is the big boy version of the scam that a board member presented to me about 7-8 years ago.  He wanted me to shill bid his listings in various places to create the idea of a demand for these books.  I declined.   You are right.  Heritage has done this before.  Halperin is a crook at heart.  Jim Halperin has a well documented history of being what can be considered a crook, a thief, a scam artist and no better than a common bottom feeding criminal.  When you admit publicly in interviews about committing SIX FIGURE mail fraud as a 13 year old child and Forbes is writing about it, I don't think he has changed much over the years.   What he did as a kid he continued doing as an adult, which was scamming others.   Hey remember when a certain board member was exposed at having a history of scamming others for across three decades?   

Why bring that up?  It is not alarming that some are dismissing it. I get that.  If someone was talking about someone inflating the prices of Franklin Mint plates I would shrug and go about my day.  It doesn't impact me in the slightest.   However, despite my not having anything to do with video games, I have bought art, comics, historical memorabilia, animation art, and currency from Heritage.   What they are doing with video games they MIGHT be doing with those other areas and that gives me pause and concern. 

So I want to know something.  How would the boards react to this?  I have 12 copies of Ultimate Fallout 4 sitting in front of me.  I will have six board members who I trust implicitly "buy them" publicly on the boards over the course of the next week at record prices.  Then I will hold on to them and as the rest of you scramble to buy other copies on eBay and everywhere else.  The value will increase dramatically and then I will really sell them next year.  There really is no difference.  I am doing it the way I can with the tools I have.  Halperin and cronies are using Heritage auctions to buy video games to create an artificial price so they can profit off of inflated bids. 

So yeah, guys like Dan have an interest in preserving the market as it is because he stands a lot to gain.  Who wouldn't?  I want to make it perfectly clear though that I do not think that Dan is scamming anyone in any shape or form.  Heritage pulling the scam of the century.  Wata is pulling the scam of the century.  Venues like Rally Road can use these circumstances to further run the scam / scheme that they are operating.

As someone who just texted me wrote, "How many times have you and I watched the art dealers whack up a ha auction and then trade amongst themselves and raise the price over time..."  So yes, we do see this frequently. 

Everyone profits off of what these guys did except the collector.  Grading services assigning values make more money if the items are worth more because they are processed under a higher tier.   Auction houses make more money in fees.  Sellers make more money on their bogus value.

The whole thing stinks and maybe guys like Halperin will stop being afforded the opportunity to settle out of court with mere repayments and meaningless restitution as he has with his other infractions.  Maybe this will be exposed a bit wider and actual justice will be administered.

I want you to take a look at Halperin's collection... 

http://www.jhalpe.com/

Take a good look at the Frazetta artwork, EC Pages, GA art, Schomburg Human Torch covers... everything. 

How much of that was obtained with the money earned by screwing over others?

 

This is how I feel as well. I just want an honest collecting ecosystem. There will always be low level scammers, but when the gatekeepers like grading houses and auction houses are scamming, it can hurt a lot of people and completely distort the marketplace. I hate seeing others jump into the hobby and get burned. If it's from their own inexperience, that's a tough part of the learning curve, we've all been there. But if it's because they bought a collectible that was shilled up by Heritage and WATA, that's messed up.

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:05 AM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

How do you "like" a post ten times?

+10

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:25 AM, G G ® ™ said:

 

That is outrageous.

Who graded that?  Dylan?

after close comparison if Dylan had graded that one it would have been an 11, maybe a 12... 

Although I still stand by my earlier post that these should have been held back a grade. (Maybe more) it reminds me of the 90's school program , no child left behind.  Where the refused to "fail " a child and hold them back so they could stay in school with their friends.   

appears these were graded on a sliding scale,  with a no comic left behind , and the numbers were calculated with common core, but they still are no Dylan grades. 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 8/27/2021 at 4:54 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

after close comparison if Dylan had graded that one it would have been an 11, maybe a 12... 

Although I still stand by my earlier post that these should have been held back a grade. (Maybe more) it reminds me of the 90's school program , no child left behind.  Where the refused to "fail " a child and hold them back so they could stay in school with their friends.   

appears these were graded on a sliding scale,  with a no comic left behind , and the numbers were calculated with common core, but they still are no Dylan grades. 

I heard after Dylan's failure to destroy cgc he got a job with them. His grading skills have improved although he promises to do better. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:59 AM, G G ® ™ said:

I heard after Dylan's failure to destroy cgc he got a job with them. His grading skills have improved although he promises to do better. 

Ok so maybe a 10 then? 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/27/2021 at 3:51 AM, COI said:

I appreciate you getting out of bed to respond.

Sure, Dan has a vested interest in the graded game market, but as far as Halperin/Heritage's business practices go and what potential hand they have in setting the market, Dan's involvement in games is no more relevant than any single comic collector who does business with Heritage. Dan's interest in maintaining the status quo could be projected onto dozens or hundreds of other boardies here, insofar as those boardies have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo on the comic side of things. 

You clearly understand this, and have said as much, so I'm no so much disagreeing with your overall point as I am trying to row against the tide of people that will inevitably interpret what you said, and what other people have said who are talking about Dan's involvement, as being somehow especially relevant to the issue of complicity with Heritage's business practices. Using Dan as a representation of all the guys out there who have a vested interest in games is the equivalent of me randomly selecting a board member on here who has recently cashed a check from Heritage, as a representation of all the guys out there who have a vested interest in comics. Additionally, I could even make the case that this issue is much more relevant on the comic side, given that comics account for a much bigger proportion of Heritage's business.

Maybe Dan shouldn’t have come in here & attacked the video after watching 10 minutes of it.  Not the smartest play considering.....

 

I like Dan, but PR damage control isn’t his strong suit.

Edited August 27, 2021 by THE_BEYONDER

[Jimmy Linguini]

I thought it was weird that these allegations are pretty much exactly what happened with that "record sale" Superman #1.

but whatever. There is no way CGC is going to let this conversation continue.

[Broke as a Joke]

Any windfall that WATA takes on from this would be beneficial to CGC and its upcoming video game grading service I would assume.  Or am I wrong?

[Icculus308win]

Look on the bright side people  - at least we have a plethora of CGC In-House Private Signings coming to our inboxes….

[Jimmy Linguini]

On 8/27/2021 at 1:36 AM, Flanders82 said:

Has anyone confirmed that Jeff Meyer, CEO & Founder of GoCollect, is also involved and bought several video game databases for the sole purpose of shutting them down to hide population data?  Also, is there any possibility that the CGC Promise Collection Pedigree's authenticity will be investigated? If the information contained in the video about Heritage is true, it seems as if it would be warranted since they exclusively sold that collection and CGC appears to be a major business partner of Halperin's.

  

[jimjum12]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:38 AM, Buzzetta said:

I mentioned that… seriously I know it’s late / early but read what I wrote.  It gives me concern because I DO collect all the other stuff and have used heritage as an agent to acquire these things. 

 

... this is not directed at you, Buzzetta, just quoting for clarity ...

I've always gotten everything I paid for from Heritage and at a price I was willing to pay ... and while they "could" manipulate the market to a degree, they are far from the driving force. Ebay is also very influential. These types of discussions are still healthy, keeping me from drifting too far off base on that pink cloud. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

... any time one of us buys a double at a good price to keep it from devaluing our keeper, we're also doing this sort of thing. 

... why do people not flip about Buyer collusion, you know, where several folks agree to stay away from a lot so their buddy can get a bargain. This leaves the consignor with less money and to me is the same level of ethical debauchery and is another side of price fixing. 

[COI]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:33 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Maybe Dan shouldn’t have come in here & attacked the video after watching 10 minutes of it.  Not the smartest play considering.....

 

Maybe he shouldn't have reacted so quickly, but we're all guilty of that from time to time. It doesn't change the fact that his involvement of the hobby is irrelevant to this discussion, yet that was the focus for several pages after he stopped commenting.

I wrote two giant posts critiquing the video, and people don't seem too interested in engaging those criticisms. I actually took the time to watch the video, then watched portions of it again to make sure I was clear on the claims he was making, I addressed those claims, with timestamps no less, wrote another giant post about why I think videos like his are a problem, and I got accused of not liking the video because of the guys voice, or some other arbitrary reason.

So I took the opposite route that Dan did with my responses, and it didn't go anywhere. That's what happens when people get entrenched in a view and aren't actually interested in discussing anything.

[MetalPSI]

Will someone, for the love of God, pass me the blue fingerpaints, I have to finish coloring in the sky and rainbow before class is over 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:53 PM, jimjum12 said:

 

... this is not directed at you, Buzzetta, just quoting for clarity ...

I've always gotten everything I paid for from Heritage and at a price I was willing to pay ... and while they "could" manipulate the market to a degree, they are far from the driving force. Ebay is also very influential. These types of discussions are still healthy, keeping me from drifting too far off base on that pink cloud. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

... any time one of us buys a double at a good price to keep it from devaluing our keeper, we're also doing this sort of thing. 

... why do people not flip about Buyer collusion, you know, where several folks agree to stay away from a lot so their buddy can get a bargain. This leaves the consignor with less money and to me is the same level of ethical debauchery and is another side of price fixing. 

In case the Heritage lawyers are reading this or come across this, what I am about to say is pure speculation and suspicion as to whether this happened and should not be construed as my making claims that this is or did take place.   A few of us have talked about this amongst ourselves as to whether or not this is possible. 

So remember when Heritage USED to be the go to place for the big books and the more elusive items?  There is speculation and suspicion that Heritage might have been jacking prices on comic auctions even after NP Gresham was discovered.  There were comics on Heritage that were reaching record prices.   Here is the problem with that.  We can see the population reports for comics regardless of how off they might be.  (Due to CPR'ing books like Hulk 181 and ASM 300, I am sure there are more on the census than actually graded but there are still a LOT out there.). So what did comic collectors do?  Buyers moved on.  There are MANY venues to buy the SAME comic books.  Comiclink really seems to be bringing the heat on a regular basis over the last few years.   In fact there are fewer comics in major event Heritage Auctions than there used to be.  What seems to dominate the Heritage event auctions these days?  Art and Video Games.   Now, I did not know about the census issues regarding art but we do know that it is near impossible to gauge the art because it is one of one and no two pieces are alike.  That means that it is far easier to manipulate pricing and I have already said what I have about the art.   

Again this is speculation. 

Heritage is no longer the driving force in comics at that point.  Comiclink has kind of become the new Heritage with the books that pass through Maine. 

BTW... what has Heritage done to try and recapture the market with Comics Books.  The discovery of the Promise Collection.  @G G ® ™, you were astonished at the 8.5.  I am trying to find it but can anyone locate the highly graded book that looks like it had mouse chew on the bottom right hand corner I believe.   There is speculation that the Promise collection is not what it seems as from the discussions here and 'across the street'... that it is not an OO collection but assembled and the grades on quite a few books seem inflated. 

Where did those books go?  Heritage.   To who?  Halperin.  From where?  CGC.

There are many things going on over there in recent years that raise an eyebrow.

I guess I am not going to get any more free catalogs from Heritage anymore.  That's okay.  If I am going to spend five figures on something again on a non-necessity I think at this point I would rather have a new deck framed around a hot tub in the backyard rather than a comic book.   

Edited August 27, 2021 by Buzzetta

[comicwiz]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:33 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Maybe Dan shouldn’t have come in here & attacked the video after watching 10 minutes of it.  Not the smartest play considering.....

I think it was actually 10 seconds... 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 8/27/2021 at 6:22 PM, Buzzetta said:

In case the Heritage lawyers are reading this or come across this, what I am about to say is pure speculation and suspicion as to whether this happened and should not be construed as my making claims that this is or did take place.   A few of us have talked about this amongst ourselves as to whether or not this is possible. 

So remember when Heritage USED to be the go to place for the big books and the more elusive items?  There is speculation and suspicion that Heritage might have been jacking prices on comic auctions even after NP Gresham was discovered.  There were comics on Heritage that were reaching record prices.   Here is the problem with that.  We can see the population reports for comics regardless of how off they might be.  (Due to CPR'ing books like Hulk 181 and ASM 300, I am sure there are more on the census than actually graded but there are still a LOT out there.). So what did comic collectors do?  Buyers moved on.  There are MANY venues to buy the SAME comic books.  Comiclink really seems to be bringing the heat on a regular basis over the last few years.   In fact there are fewer comics in major event Heritage Auctions than there used to be.  What seems to dominate the Heritage event auctions these days?  Art and Video Games.   Now, I did not know about the census issues regarding art but we do know that it is near impossible to gauge the art because it is one of one and no two pieces are alike.  That means that it is far easier to manipulate pricing and I have already said what I have about the art. 

Again this is speculation. 

Heritage is no longer the driving force in comics at that point.  Comiclink has kind of become the new Heritage with the books that pass through Maine. 

BTW... what has Heritage done to try and recapture the market with Comics Books.  The discovery of the Promise Collection.  @G G ® ™, you were astonished at the 8.5.  I am trying to find it but can anyone locate the highly graded book that looks like it had mouse chew on the bottom right hand corner I believe.   There is speculation that the Promise collection is not what it seems as from the discussions here and 'across the street'... that it is not an OO collection but assembled and the grades on quite a few books seem inflated. 

Where did those books go?  Heritage.   To who?  Halperin.  From where?  CGC.

There are many things going on over there in recent years that raise an eyebrow.

I guess I am not going to get any more free catalogs from Heritage anymore.  That's okay.  If I am going to spend five figures on something again on a non-necessity I think at this point I would rather have a new deck framed around a hot tub in the backyard rather than a comic book.   

I saw the

mouse chew book but can't remember what it was. Personally made a decision about heritage about 12 years ago, i.e I do not use them. 

Nothing surprises me about the hobby anymore. What does surprise is how people will buy into hype like chickens at chow time.

,

[WolverineX]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:51 AM, skypinkblu said:

Just to stop any rumors...the thread was locked because 26 posts were removed. Most of those posts were just hidden because they quoted posts that needed to be removed.  Nothing was removed because it related to the topic, just stuff that belonged in a schoolyard.

 

Thank you,  Sharon.  Appreciate the transparency and letting us know what happened.

[WolverineX]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:45 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

Any windfall that WATA takes on from this would be beneficial to CGC and its upcoming video game grading service I would assume.  Or am I wrong?

Ironically, that is true.  

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/27/2021 at 11:11 AM, COI said:

...his involvement of the hobby is irrelevant to this discussion, yet that was the focus for several pages after he stopped commenting.

He literally owned THE game at the center of this controversy, knows all the players, was there at the beginning of WATA, and is mentioned in a lot of the news articles. 

And that's irrelevant to this discussion?