Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[WolverineX]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:58 PM, jaybuck43 said:

I make no comments about any of the points raised (on either side) by the video. All I look to is the smell test.

1) Jim Halperin has a long history of committing fraud. FACT.  He self admits to committing mail fraud at the age of 13 to the tune of $100,000+ ($840,000 in todays money) by advertising a non existent sales company and charging people to join it.  To avoid prosecution, he agreed to return the funds.  In 1989 he settled with the FTC for over $1.2 million and a permeant injunction because his company NCI was overgrading coins, then passing them on to another one of his companies, CRCG, where they were made to look attractive.  Sale prices were significantly higher then the coins would have fetched had they been graded by a more reputable company.  In 1990 another one of his companies, SFMC, settled with the FTC for $1.4 million for selling overgraded coins.  

2) Before Halperin got involved in the video game industry in 2019, no single game had ever crossed the 6 figure barrier.  Heck, even many bulk sales were troll bid and never paid for.  I don't believe Thompson ever saw a penny of the $750,000 his gigantic collection "sold" for.  

3) After Halperin gets involved games start routinely breaking the 6 figures mark.  Shockingly, almost all of those major sales happen at one place, Heritage (owned by Jim Halperin) To my knowledge CC has not broken the 6 figure mark, but please correct me if I am wrong, I may have missed a sale.  The only other record sale is Rally's $2 million SMB BUT that's a private sale and I have my own suspicions about what happened there.

So you have a guy who's known to commit fraud, who's own industry looked down on him, who owns interest in grading companies and the auction companies that sell said graded assets, who then enters a new field that MAGICALLY explodes RIGHT at the time he enters it.  When I hear hoof beats, I think horses, not zebras.  There's sure a lot of stench here to not pass the smell test.

*Disclaimer.  I own a TON of video games.  Every system from NES all the way to PS5. All with their original box, inserts etc. Most games are still in their original cellophane, as dad would just slit the top to get the cartridge out.  Not a single one is graded.  I have no intention of selling.  They are in my vintage video game section of my house, connected to my 36" CRT tv. My comments are not made out of jealousy or thinking I am a "true" collector or begrudging the fact that I can't get a certain game because the market is obnoxiously priced.  I speak only because I feel there is something wildly inappropriate going on in this industry and I worry what the ramifications will be long term.

/thread

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:05 PM, Wolverinex said:

On 8/25/2021 at 10:58 PM, jaybuck43 said:

I make no comments about any of the points raised (on either side) by the video. All I look to is the smell test.

1) Jim Halperin has a long history of committing fraud. FACT.  He self admits to committing mail fraud at the age of 13 to the tune of $100,000+ ($840,000 in todays money) by advertising a non existent sales company and charging people to join it.  To avoid prosecution, he agreed to return the funds.  In 1989 he settled with the FTC for over $1.2 million and a permeant injunction because his company NCI was overgrading coins, then passing them on to another one of his companies, CRCG, where they were made to look attractive.  Sale prices were significantly higher then the coins would have fetched had they been graded by a more reputable company.  In 1990 another one of his companies, SFMC, settled with the FTC for $1.4 million for selling overgraded coins.  

2) Before Halperin got involved in the video game industry in 2019, no single game had ever crossed the 6 figure barrier.  Heck, even many bulk sales were troll bid and never paid for.  I don't believe Thompson ever saw a penny of the $750,000 his gigantic collection "sold" for.  

3) After Halperin gets involved games start routinely breaking the 6 figures mark.  Shockingly, almost all of those major sales happen at one place, Heritage (owned by Jim Halperin) To my knowledge CC has not broken the 6 figure mark, but please correct me if I am wrong, I may have missed a sale.  The only other record sale is Rally's $2 million SMB BUT that's a private sale and I have my own suspicions about what happened there.

So you have a guy who's known to commit fraud, who's own industry looked down on him, who owns interest in grading companies and the auction companies that sell said graded assets, who then enters a new field that MAGICALLY explodes RIGHT at the time he enters it.  When I hear hoof beats, I think horses, not zebras.  There's sure a lot of stench here to not pass the smell test.

*Disclaimer.  I own a TON of video games.  Every system from NES all the way to PS5. All with their original box, inserts etc. Most games are still in their original cellophane, as dad would just slit the top to get the cartridge out.  Not a single one is graded.  I have no intention of selling.  They are in my vintage video game section of my house, connected to my 36" CRT tv. My comments are not made out of jealousy or thinking I am a "true" collector or begrudging the fact that I can't get a certain game because the market is obnoxiously priced.  I speak only because I feel there is something wildly inappropriate going on in this industry and I worry what the ramifications will be long term.

/thread

If only we could think of some other examples and other places where prices have gone crazy for collectibles during the last year or so........

Perhaps we could then think of another reason for it.........

Nope.

I'm drawing a blank.

/thread, quitsies, no anti-quitsies, no startsies, triple stamp, no erasies, touch blue make it true.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[manetteska]

Yes other collectible graded markets have gone up. How many have had a $2mm sale during this year-plus?

Would be interesting to see the following markets by top price, item, date of sale, grading company, place of sale, etc since last January.

Comics

Video Games

Sports Cards (or by sport)

Magic

Pokemon

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/25/2021 at 8:21 PM, Guardian Comics said:

Dan:  Can you remind us again what position with Wata you have again, or have had in the past.  Was it Board of Directors or just an Advisor position?
 

Jim

Didn't he own the game in question? Funny how he never mentions that in his posts condemning the video. 

[kav]

On 8/26/2021 at 8:36 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Didn't he own the game in question? Funny how he never mentions that in his posts condemning the video. 

[Sweet Lou 14]

So ... I think this is what everyone is referring to?

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-national-video-game?justPublished=true

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:18 PM, manetteska said:

Yes other collectible graded markets have gone up. How many have had a $2mm sale during this year-plus?

Would be interesting to see the following markets by top price, item, date of sale, grading company, place of sale, etc since last January.

Comics

Video Games

Sports Cards (or by sport)

Magic

Pokemon

There have been plenty....across various grading companies through several auction houses as well as private sales.

Just looking at Sports Cards sales for 2021 that exceeded 4 million dollars.....there was:

1933 Goudy Babe Ruth graded by PSA and sold through Memory Lane for $4,212,000

2018 National Treasures Luka Doncic autograph rookie (ungraded) sold in a private sales for $4,600,000

2003 LeBron James rookie patch autograph graded by BGS sold in a private sale brokered by PWCC for $5,200,000.

1952 Topps Mickey Mantle graded by PSA sold in a private sale brokered by PWCC also for $5,200,000

1909 T206 Honus Wagner graded by SGC sold through Robert Edwards Auctions for $6,606,296

 

 

[manetteska]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:46 PM, Domo Arigato said:

There have been plenty....across various grading companies through several auction houses as well as private sales.

Just looking at Sports Cards sales for 2021 that exceeded 4 million dollars.....there was:

1933 Goudy Babe Ruth graded by PSA and sold through Memory Lane for $4,212,000

2018 National Treasures Luka Doncic autograph rookie (ungraded) sold in a private sales for $4,600,000

2003 LeBron James rookie patch autograph graded by BGS sold in a private sale brokered by PWCC for $5,200,000.

1952 Topps Mickey Mantle graded by PSA sold in a private sale brokered by PWCC also for $5,200,000

1909 T206 Honus Wagner graded by SGC sold through Robert Edwards Auctions for $6,606,296

 

 

Thanks. Stepping away from Wata, we have PWCC which has been in the news recently as well as private sales which are… interesting.

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:42 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

So ... I think this is what everyone is referring to?

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-national-video-game?justPublished=true

 

[kav]

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:36 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Didn't he own the game in question? Funny how he never mentions that in his posts condemning the video. 

That's been common knowledge to those not just sticking their nose into this after watching a YouTube video.  I've known about it since the deal went down.  It wasn't a secret, just like most of this other nonsense that people keep trying to make an "AHA!" moment out of.  And I see no reason why he would think he needs to put a footnote at the bottom of each of his posts.

And why does it matter?  He's a collector/seller and has been for many years.  That's also not a secret.  And he's already stated his involvement with WATA consisted of the following:

"Just gave some pre launch advice.    Its probably not appropriate for me to give details but mainly around the basics.   What should an 8 grade look like versus a 9, etc.    Nothing scintillating, I can tell you that.  The board never formally met and to my knowledge post launch but prior to the acquisition by the group Turner is involved with, I don't believe there was a board.   May well be one now, post-aquisition, but I couldn't speak to that."

Do you know how many comic dealers CGC consulted with for advice before opening their doors?  Do they need to stop buying and selling books for profit as well?

 

 

 

[kav]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:00 PM, Domo Arigato said:

That's been common knowledge to those not just sticking their nose into this after watching a YouTube video.  I've known about it since the deal went down.  It wasn't a secret, just like most of this other nonsense that people keep trying to make an "AHA!" moment out of.  And I see no reason why he would think he needs to put a footnote at the bottom of each of his posts.

And why does it matter?  He's a collector/seller and has been for many years.  That's also not a secret.  And he's already stated his involvement with WATA consisted of the following:

"Just gave some pre launch advice.    Its probably not appropriate for me to give details but mainly around the basics.   What should an 8 grade look like versus a 9, etc.    Nothing scintillating, I can tell you that.  The board never formally met and to my knowledge post launch but prior to the acquisition by the group Turner is involved with, I don't believe there was a board.   May well be one now, post-aquisition, but I couldn't speak to that."

Do you know how many comic dealers CGC consulted with for advice before opening their doors?  Do they need to stop buying and selling books for profit as well?

 

 

 

was it really common knowledge?  13 pages and no mention of it.

[kav]

Actually 22 pages in 2 threads-

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:42 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

So ... I think this is what everyone is referring to?

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-national-video-game?justPublished=true

Seth Abramson is a big conspiracy theorist (check out some of his books) that's also been trolling around the video game market lately for clicks and money.

He joined various Facebook groups and tried to sell a subscription service to "Population reports" that he compiled for Nintendo games.  Everyone promptly called him out on his deception by pointing out that the information wasn't even close to being population reports.  He simply compiled the sales of games from a couple of different venues and then tried to sell the information on Facebook as a monthly subscription for profit.  He then proceeded to argue with everyone incessantly before being kicked out of all the Facebook groups I belong to.

Seth Abramson. 

 

[jimjum12]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:00 AM, Domo Arigato said:

Do you know how many comic dealers CGC consulted with for advice before opening their doors?  Do they need to stop buying and selling books for profit as well?

CGC's rollout was very admirable. They invited collectors as well as dealers to receive a dozen or more free submissions. This involved over 20 different folks. IIRC, an article that focused on the reactions after everyone got their books back... appeared in CBG as I recall. IMHO the debut of their service couldn't have been handled better. I was VERY impressed. GOD BLESS .... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:00 AM, Domo Arigato said:

That's been common knowledge to those not just sticking their nose into this after watching a YouTube video.

Good for you, but the rest of us would have benefitted from this information.

The most vocal and passionate attacker of that video's credibility in this thread has a deeply vested interest in undermining that credibility.  Good to know.

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:07 AM, Domo Arigato said:

Seth Abramson is a big conspiracy theorist (check out some of his books) that's also been trolling around the video game market lately for clicks and money.

He joined various Facebook groups and tried to sell a subscription service to "Population reports" that he compiled for Nintendo games.  Everyone promptly called him out on his deception by pointing out that the information wasn't even close to being population reports.  He simply compiled the sales of games from a couple of different venues and then tried to sell the information on Facebook as a monthly subscription for profit.  He then proceeded to argue with everyone incessantly before being kicked out of all the Facebook groups I belong to.

Seth Abramson. 

 

Say what you want about the guy, and there is plenty of criticism to go around, what's most relevant is the information he's providing.  If there's a legitimate argument to be made against his claims, then by all means make it.  But ad hominem attacks are just a distraction.

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/26/2021 at 11:02 PM, kav said:

was it really common knowledge?  13 pages and no mention of it.

If it's common knowledge, there's no need to mention it. 

That's why it's called common knowledge.

People in the hobby that have read about these things previously know this stuff.  Video Game bandwagon jumpers who just want to jump in and complain about the exact same things that have been going on in the comic hobby for 2 decades might not.  But nobody is obligated to educate them.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:00 AM, Domo Arigato said:

That's been common knowledge to those not just sticking their nose into this after watching a YouTube video.  I've known about it since the deal went down.  It wasn't a secret, just like most of this other nonsense that people keep trying to make an "AHA!" moment out of.  And I see no reason why he would think he needs to put a footnote at the bottom of each of his posts.

And why does it matter?  He's a collector/seller and has been for many years.  That's also not a secret.  And he's already stated his involvement with WATA consisted of the following:

"Just gave some pre launch advice.    Its probably not appropriate for me to give details but mainly around the basics.   What should an 8 grade look like versus a 9, etc.    Nothing scintillating, I can tell you that.  The board never formally met and to my knowledge post launch but prior to the acquisition by the group Turner is involved with, I don't believe there was a board.   May well be one now, post-aquisition, but I couldn't speak to that."

Do you know how many comic dealers CGC consulted with for advice before opening their doors?  Do they need to stop buying and selling books for profit as well?

 

 

 

If bob storms sends in an AF 15, the grader has no clue it’s storms book. They’ll grade it and send it back to him never knowing it was his book. Dan’s SMB was well known to them at the time. They knew exactly what they had, who’s it was, and what they were working out. There was no “anonymity” in the process. It would be like Vince sending in one of the 9.0 Action 1s into CBCS for grading. They know who’s book it is, they know what it is, and they have all the incentive in the world to grade it kindly. Abrahamsons article goes on and on about the “lowering” of the grade and it costing Dan money (he’s way off base there). If anything the lower grade makes sense. They’re sending the signal that they’re tougher graders than VGA (anybody remember why we CPR original labels?)

[kav]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:12 PM, Domo Arigato said:

If it's common knowledge, there's no need to mention it. 

That's why it's called common knowledge.

People in the hobby that have read about these things previously know this stuff.  Video Game bandwagon jumpers who just want to jump in and complain about the exact same things that have been going on in the comic hobby for 2 decades might not.  But nobody is obligated to educate them.

 

 

Seems pretty relevant and worth mentioning for at least several people here who appeared to have no idea how common the knowledge was tho.