THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Gatsby77]

Where is Silvermane in all this?

[paqart]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:22 PM, sfcityduck said:

How about Barbie?

I can't comment because I haven't seen it. Based on the trailers though, doesn't look like "female empowerment." It does remind me of a lot of products that are pitched that way, but tend to convince women to make decisions that make them less happy overall. My mom was an "empowered" female from her perspective. From mine, she was sometimes homeless and died of starvation after a very unhappy life spent avoiding good men, or being with the ones that played the "female empowerment" game, but who were all very bad or just plain useless guys.

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:49 PM, paqart said:

I can't comment because I haven't seen it. Based on the trailers though, doesn't look like "female empowerment." It does remind me of a lot of products that are pitched that way, but tend to convince women to make decisions that make them less happy overall. My mom was an "empowered" female from her perspective. From mine, she was sometimes homeless and died of starvation after a very unhappy life spent avoiding good men, or being with the ones that played the "female empowerment" game, but who were all very bad or just plain useless guys.

I would not form opinions based on trailers. Can't deny your life experiences, which sound quite sad, but I would not recommend generalizing from them. 

[paqart]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:12 PM, sfcityduck said:

I would not form opinions based on trailers. Can't deny your life experiences, which sound quite sad, but I would not recommend generalizing from them. 

It's one example of many. I understand what valid generalization looks like, and am comfortable saying that my comments generalize pretty well. My reasons, however, cannot be shared in this forum.

[Azkaban]

just got back.... WOW what a dumpster fire of a movie...... I feel sorry for Iman Vellani who seemed to be the only person in this film who was enjoying it and was actually acting

I don't even know what else to say about this movie except it's right there with Thor Love and Blunder 

[Randall Dowling]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:20 PM, sfcityduck said:

I have never walked in a theatre to watch a Marvel or Star Wars movie without at least one woman (almost always my wife, variously also my friends - usually couples - sister, and nieces). When there's a Marvel movie out around Christmas or July its a family affair. At home, we usually go with other couples.

Don't know where you live in Canada, but the culture of your area may have "nurtured" the desire to see Marvel movies out of the women you know. I've never had a need to drag anyone to a Marvel movie.

As for your genetic "nature" argument, I'm completely unaware of any studies which conclude that there's a genetic difference between men and women which impacts desire to see Marvel movies. So you'll have to cite that one to me ... if it exists.  And if it does, I'm sure I'll enjoy seeing what the scientific reaction is.

A person's physical sex and base sexual orientation, I concede, are dictated by genetics. Folks are born male and gay. But "gender" as it relates to social and cultural differences is a social construct not a biological one. To give an example, just because you are born a woman (or gay for that matter) does not mean you want to wear a dress and read Little Women.

Anyone that thinks girls/women aren't into comics, hasn't been paying attention at conventions over the last 20 years.  The number of women that I've seen (who aren't the tagalong girlfriend of some fanboy) shocked me at first but now it's just normal.  I think it's foolish to ignore that demographic, no matter how good or bad The Marvels is/was.  The last few times I went to a comic movie, there were plenty of women, several without any men.  One of my best friends has 3 daughters, ages 8-13.  They're all huge fans of graphic novels and comics (much to my surprise, because my friend is absolutely not).

Good stories are good stories and the best ones captivate the most people, regardless of race, color, gender, creed, orientation, or other superficial distinction.  The only thing I've seen, in recent memory, keep people from appreciating a good story is ideology.  Unfortunately, there's a number of people that are just rigid in their belief that someone's trying to trick them or indoctrinate them or persecute them or get them in some way.  And that seems to get in their way of enjoying a good story.

My older brother is one of those and now he doesn't seem to like anything anymore.  Which is sad because he used to be a lot of fun to watch movies with.  I really wish he'd lighten up and have fun again but suggesting that only makes him more bitter. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Randall Dowling
Eliminate the negative

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:30 PM, paqart said:

It's one example of many. I understand what valid generalization looks like, and am comfortable saying that my comments generalize pretty well. 

I think it is a mistake to generalize from a woman who you portray as being deluded that she was an "empowered woman" and who may have had mental health issues (so common with the homeless) to actually empowered women. My own mother was a newspaper reporter, active in the women's right movement and the League of Women Voters, a County Planning Commissioner, and a great mom. My sister ran campaigns for state and local politicians, headed up a Congressman's District Office, and is now the chief lobbyist and political affairs officer for a major University. Her daughter, my niece, works for a Congressman in DC and was recently promoted from Press Officer to Chief of Communications - this is her first job out of college. So I've seen generations of empowered women and my view of what that looks like is clearly different than yours. Generalizations generally are false. (LoL!).  My wife is also a very successful and empowered woman. I'm glad that I've supported her throughout her career and our life together. I don't view that as a "female empowerment game." We celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary next year (we'd known each other eight years before we married). Again, we all have our life experiences and they are a very narrow example to use as the basis for generalizations. 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:25 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Anyone that doesn't think girls/women aren't into comics, hasn't been paying attention at conventions over the last 20 years.  

Double negative?

[Randall Dowling]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:30 PM, sfcityduck said:

Double negative?

My specialty. 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:25 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Anyone that thinks girls/women aren't into comics, hasn't been paying attention at conventions over the last 20 years. 

But the thing is that no one I go with to MCU movies is a comic book collector. The vast majority of MCU movie goers don't read comic books. The reason why the MCU worked so well initially is that you did not need to have read the comics. As the movies became much more of an inside baseball experience, like with the Infinity Stones, the less engaging the movies became for non-collectors. And since I stopped buying Marvel Comics regularly when I went to law school in 1989, I was in that group. The MCU downturn for me occurred when "events" dominated the MCU especially when the event was as uncompelling as I found the "snap" story to be. Everyone dies -- no not really -- is my LEAST favorite comic story trope.

[Buzzetta]

@Calamerica

G'night everybody. 

 

[Straw-Man]

while we're on colonoscopy, allow me to offer a true story:  plaintiff's depo taken, i dictate a summary/report letter for the client.  i say into the dictaphone--"claimant has had a fairly vanilla pre-accident medical history.  only one overnight hospital stay, to have 3 polyps removed from his colon."   letter comes back to me after being transcribed by my secretary, ready to go the client.   in my edit, she was doing pretty well, until i got to the pre-existing medical part.  my letter to the client read:  "only one overnight hospitalization, to have 3 pile-ups removed from his colon."   perhaps not entirely wrong, but i did correct it.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Straw-Man

[greggy]

My FIT test was negative so I'm happy.

xoxo

greggy

[paqart]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:28 PM, sfcityduck said:

I think it is a mistake to generalize from a woman who you portray as being deluded that she was an "empowered woman" and who may have had mental health issues (so common with the homeless) to actually empowered women. My own mother was a newspaper reporter, active in the women's right movement and the League of Women Voters, a County Planning Commissioner, and a great mom. My sister ran campaigns for state and local politicians, headed up a Congressman's District Office, and is now the chief lobbyist and political affairs officer for a major University. Her daughter, my niece, works for a Congressman in DC and was recently promoted from Press Officer to Chief of Communications - this is her first job out of college. So I've seen generations of empowered women and my view of what that looks like is clearly different than yours. Generalizations generally are false. (LoL!).  My wife is also a very successful and empowered woman. I'm glad that I've supported her throughout her career and our life together. I don't view that as a "female empowerment game." We celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary next year (we'd known each other eight years before we married). Again, we all have our life experiences and they are a very narrow example to use as the basis for generalizations. 

Well, using an example from life experience is different from referencing peer-reviewed studies. Thanks to my PhD, I have access to one of the world's largest libraries of such journals, but they are definitely skewed against my position (I checked.) However, there are a number of contentious subjects where my university's library is silent on the controversy. To find competing ideas, I have to look elsewhere. It is almost as if someone did a PC sweep of my university library's contents. I know the other articles are out there because I've seen them. The most recent example of this relates to lockdown/Covid studies, which monolithically represent one side of the issue at the library. However, there are plenty of competing articles found elsewhere in reputable journals. I'm writing a book about this, so I've downloaded dozens of examples of this phenomenon.

For now though, I'm happy to drop this. Not with a concession, because my view of "female empowerment" is different from yours for what I think are valid reasons. The reason is this is the wrong place for such a conversation.

Edited November 16, 2023 by paqart

[paqart]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:38 PM, sfcityduck said:

But the thing is that no one I go with to MCU movies is a comic book collector. The vast majority of MCU movie goers don't read comic books. The reason why the MCU worked so well initially is that you did not need to have read the comics. As the movies became much more of an inside baseball experience, like with the Infinity Stones, the less engaging the movies became for non-collectors. And since I stopped buying Marvel Comics regularly when I went to law school in 1989, I was in that group. The MCU downturn for me occurred when "events" dominated the MCU especially when the event was as uncompelling as I found the "snap" story to be. Everyone dies -- no not really -- is my LEAST favorite comic story trope.

I am surprised to find myself agreeing with you to a degree about this. I don't think it is the whole story, but can see it as part of the answer. However, I think the reason it is part of the answer is that there was a fundamental shift in the way the stories were written. That shift included the addition of unnecessary and unwanted modifications to the characters that made them repugnant to general audiences.

An example of what you are saying is from Black Panther with Chadwick Boseman. My impression of Boseman is that he was so afraid he wouldn't look "regal" enough that he gave a totally bland performance. He was so bland, that I was left with the inside baseball portion of the movie, and that wasn't enough for me to enjoy it. If his personality had some spice to it, either with a different actor or different instructions to the actor, I think it would have been a lot more engaging. It did well regardless, but that may have had something to do with the tremendous goodwill the MCU had at the time, excitement about Infinity War, and the marketing campaign centered on a black Marvel superhero.

[Prince Namor]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:38 AM, sfcityduck said:

The vast majority of MCU movie goers don't read comic books. 

See, I made this comment to Roy and he bailed on the conversation. If you approach 'these people' with preconceived prejudices, they simply dismiss any evidence, regardless of how truthful or fact filled, if it goes against what they believe.

It's the opposite of scientific research. They have their conclusion FIRST, and everything they take in is geared towards reinforcing it. Anything that goes against it is completely ignored. 

[DougC]

I watched the Marvels over lunch yesterday for a $6 matinee and still feel like I over paid. Going in I felt that Captain Marvel was overall not a bad movie just a bit self important with unfocused writing and bad direction. This was much worse; outside of Iman none of the actors looked like they wanted to even be there. Saying the performances were wooden with very dry delivery is an understatement. This was not help by a terrible script and overall writing; most of the interactions lacked emotional appeal, with every scene between Monica and Carol seemly forced as they "talked" through dialogue dumps meant to describe, resolve, and create the interpersonal conflict between them.

The movie suffers from the "everything needs to be undermined with humor" turned up to 11 that crippled the last Thor movie. The jokes don't land and even worse many just do not make sense, so much so that the villain threat is constantly undercut by this humor leaving you questioning why you should even care about the villain, cause the hero's don't take her seriously.

At least in Thor: Love and Thunder there is the framework of a good movie hiding within that was hamstrung by poor decisions (director or executive). I do not see the same with Marvels and it suffers additionally from actors/directors comments outside of the movie informing you that you are the problem not the bad movie.

[TupennyConan]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:14 PM, paqart said:

If not entertaining eough, it doesn't prevent boredom. 

****

Bud Light is no problem because I don't drink

Your essays are fun and tell us a lot about you. Thanks for posting them!

Boredom has been a theme, it seems to me. Perhaps a way out of your boredom is BUD LIGHT, not the MCU or Perry Mason?  

[Bosco685]

FORBES: ‘The Marvels’ flop shows that Kevin Feige’s ‘brilliance,’ which drove $29B for Marvel, is no match for Disney’s insatiable need for content

Quote

The Marvels made about $47 million this weekend, a disappointing number that missed already lowered expectations of $60 million that analysts predicted earlier this month.

 

A major reason for the film’s flop is that the workload placed on Marvel’s chief creative engine, president Kevin Feige, is starting to catch up with him, according to the authors of the recently published MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios.

 

Feige was the man most responsible for delivering Marvel’s string of blockbusters, starting with 2008’s Iron Man, and turning the studio into a dominant player in Hollywood. But as Marvel’s ambitions grew and the studio churned out an increasing number of streaming shows to go along with its usual theatrical releases, it has struggled to stretch Feige’s talents, Dave Gonzales, Gavin Edwards, and longtime pop culture journalist and chronicler of superhero movies Joanna Robinson write in MCU. Since Disney—Marvel’s parent company—launched its Disney+ streaming service in 2019, Feige has been overextended, they argue.

Quote

Marvel movies have meant big business because they guaranteed a minimum level of quality that promised box office receipts ranging from good to historic. Marvel’s Avengers: Endgame became the highest-grossing movie ever at its 2019 release when it made $2.8 billion worldwide. Even the studio’s lowest-grossing movie ever, 2008’s The Incredible Hulk, was still plenty profitable, making $265 million on a $150 million budget.

Incredible Hulk bombed at 1.8x production budget. So that's a mistake.

Quote

Friday’s release of The Marvels shows that the weight placed on Feige’s shoulders is starting to exact its price—from Marvel’s box office returns.

 

Having a single individual responsible for the studio’s entire output was critical to executing Marvel’s revolutionary idea of making all of its movies and television shows interconnected. (Although the idea to make endless sequels was the brainchild of David Maisel, who MCU calls a critical and unfairly overlooked executive in Marvel’s history.) Marvel needed at least one person who could see the entire chessboard. 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Bosco685

[media_junkie]

If you know, you know.