THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[ashsaytr]

2 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

You guys do realize that even though Captain Marvel's sequel title speaks to there being more than one character featured in the movie, that ALL the MCU Phase Four films will be team-up films, right?

Black Widow will be a team-up of Natasha, Yelena the new Black Widow, Red Guardian, and the Iron Maiden/older Black Widow character. Multiverse of Madness will be a team-up of Strange, Wanda Maximoff, Wong, Jerico Drumm, and Clea. No Way Home will be a team-up allegedly of Spider-Mans from all three different franchises. Love and Thunder will be a team-up of Thor, Jane Foster Thor, Valkyrie, and allegedly Hercules. And The Marvels will be a team-up of Carol Danvers, Kamala Khan, Monica Rambeau, and maybe even Blue Marvel (but I doubt it, this film will be about the women).

Even the two Disney+ shows we just had were team-up adventures. WandaVision teamed up Wanda, Vision, and Monica Rambeau. FWS teamed up Sam Wilson, Bucky, John Walker, Lamar Hoskins, Zemo, and Isaiah Bradley.

Everything in the MCU is a team-up now. It basically has been ever since Iron Man 2 with a few exceptions.

you left out Emily VanCamp!

[@therealsilvermane]

9 minutes ago, drotto said:

Any of these characters if given a chance could have a great solo movie.  That's right Black Widow is getting one (granted years to late).  Captain Marvel is not this magic special diamond you position her as. It just takes the right creative team and the will to make it. I would prefer to see all of these over Captain Marvel. I will conceed Captain Marvel has had the most solo series, but that is just because they need to keep rebooting it to get any level of interest in the character.

Until a few years ago, every Marvel Comics character title was getting robooted multiple times to try to attract new readers and had nothing to do with interest or not in Captain Marvel's title. Even X-Men and Spider-Man got rebooted several times. That period of constant rebooting is over now as Marvel Comics is under new management. Captain Marvel's current title has not been rebooted since this management change, and neither has Avengers, Spider-Man, or Fantastic Four.

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

All of these ladies except She-Hulk isnt a solo franchise super-hero (not even Scarlet Witch) and will just be a part of their team. Captain Marvel is still president of this club.

By the way, this is another example of trolling you may not recognize.

Because you assumed my list was of MCU female characters that can deliver their own solo movies or shows, you were going to 'teach me a lesson' and were going to state yet again how only Captain Marvel could pull this off successfully. Or as you probably shouted while posting this as you sipped from a fresh glass of tiger blood ...

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Bosco685

[drotto]

18 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Until a few years ago, every Marvel Comics character title was getting robooted multiple times to try to attract new readers and had nothing to do with interest or not in Captain Marvel's title. Even X-Men and Spider-Man got rebooted several times. That period of constant rebooting is over now as Marvel Comics is under new management. Captain Marvel's current title has not been rebooted since this management change, and neither has Avengers, Spider-Man, or Fantastic Four.

Yeah, her title is ripping it up in popularity.  It was ranked 68th in sales last month according to Comichron.

[@therealsilvermane]

3 minutes ago, drotto said:

Yeah, her title is ripping it up in popularity.  It was ranked 68th in sales last month according to Comichron.

And Captain Marvel also outsold Wonder Woman and Fantastic Four according to that site's numbers in Direct Sales shipments to comic book shops. It means nothing. The numbers that separate a lot of the books once you get past the Top 20 is by a mere few thousand copies.

Also, a segment of Captain Marvel's demographic doesn't get their Carol D. stories from local comic book shops. Many of them read Captain Marvel through graphic novels purchased elsewhere or Marvel Unlimited/Comixology. Local comic shops is more the domain of older comic book readers. And yes, I accept that not every 35+ year old comic book reader who has weekly pulls at their LCS is a regular Captain Marvel reader. Kelly Thompson, Marvel's best female writer, is the current CM scribe and the storylines have been pretty good with a lot of new character intros. Her stories are a step up from Margaret Stohl's previous CM run but not as good as Kelly Sue Deconnick's iconic character defining run on Captain Marvel. IMO.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

43 minutes ago, ashsaytr said:

you left out Emily VanCamp!

Well I was thinking more costumed super-hero types, but yeah, Sharon Carter was part of that team-up. On that note, you could say Agent Woo and Darcy were part of the WandaVision Monica team-up, too. And that Martin Freeman's Agent Ross was part of the T'Challa, M'Baku, Shuri, Okoye team-up in Black Panther, as well.

[theCapraAegagrus]

4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Well I was thinking more costumed super-hero types, but yeah, Sharon Carter was part of that team-up. On that note, you could say Agent Woo and Darcy were part of the WandaVision Monica team-up, too. And that Martin Freeman's Agent Ross was part of the T'Challa, M'Baku, Shuri, Okoye team-up in Black Panther, as well.

I guess that I missed where all of these "team-up" characters' backstories are being shown.

[@therealsilvermane]

10 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

I guess that I missed where all of these "team-up" characters' backstories are being shown.

I believe Phase Four is a new approach to the treatment of supporting characters. In WandaVision and FWS, supporting characters like Monica Rambeau and Sharon Carter got to be their own people and we got to see their inner world (Monica Rambeau apparently has some beef with her Auntie Carol who maybe she feels abandoned her and Maria & Sharon Carter got to be a character who wants things for herself, too, not just for Steve Rogers). Unlike before, supporting characters will be more fleshed out with their own wants and desires. This is a change from the way supporting characters were used in past films, like Sam Wilson in previous Captain America movies who had no life outside his support for Steve Rogers. I think this new approach will play out in future films like Multiverse of Madness (where a character like Clea may be a fully fleshed out character) or Love and Thunder (where allegedly appearing Hercules may get his own mini-character arc within the greater movie).

And of course, this will most likely play out in The Marvels.

Edited May 20, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[drotto]

8 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

And Captain Marvel also outsold Wonder Woman and Fantastic Four according to that site's numbers in Direct Sales shipments to comic book shops. It means nothing. The numbers that separate a lot of the books once you get past the Top 20 is by a mere few thousand copies.

Also, a segment of Captain Marvel's demographic doesn't get their Carol D. stories from local comic book shops. Many of them read Captain Marvel through graphic novels purchased elsewhere or Marvel Unlimited/Comixology. Local comic shops is more the domain of older comic book readers. And yes, I accept that not every 35+ year old comic book reader who has weekly pulls at their LCS is a regular Captain Marvel reader. Kelly Thompson, Marvel's best female writer, is the current CM scribe and the storylines have been pretty good with a lot of new character intros. Her stories are a step up from Margaret Stohl's previous CM run but not as good as Kelly Sue Deconnick's iconic character defining run on Captain Marvel. IMO.

 

 

Then where do they get their Captain Marvel fix?  The two movies she has been in to this point?  It's not like US Graphic Novels are massive in popularity. Traditionally, character popularity is judged by movie appearances, TV appearances, book appearances, comic sales, merchandise and toys sales. In today's world, you can add internet buzz and searches. None of these metrics indicate massive popularity for Captain Marvel. Anecdotally, I see dozens of Captain America tee shirts on boys and girls for every one Captain Marvel shirt.

 

You say there is this massive fan base, and when you are given numbers that say otherwise, you find some way to write them off. You write off men that go to comic stores as not the target audience, when those same men are the majority of people that go to comic movies.  Comic movie audiences are 55 to 60% male.

 

Give me your sources that say the character is widely popular, show sone hard numbers. The vast number of sources I find seem to tell a very different story.

[theCapraAegagrus]

25 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I believe Phase Four is a new approach to the treatment of supporting characters. In WandaVision and FWS, supporting characters like Monica Rambeau and Sharon Carter got to be their own people and we got to see their inner world (Monica Rambeau apparently has some beef with her Auntie Carol who maybe she feels abandoned her and Maria & Sharon Carter got to be a character who wants things for herself, too, not just for Steve Rogers). Unlike before, supporting characters will be more fleshed out with their own wants and desires. This is a change from the way supporting characters were used in past films, like Sam Wilson in previous Captain America movies who had no life outside his support for Steve Rogers. I think this new approach will play out in future films like Multiverse of Madness (where a character like Clea may be a fully fleshed out character) or Love and Thunder (where allegedly appearing Hercules may get his own mini-character arc within the greater movie).

And of course, this will most likely play out in The Marvels.

The point is: Movies have side-characters. They aren't "team-ups".

[@therealsilvermane]

11 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

The point is: Movies have side-characters. They aren't "team-ups".

Ragnarok was a team-up of Thor, Hulk, Valkyrie, Loki, with an assist from Dr Strange, Heimdall, Scourge, and Korg(sp). Hulk and Loki weren't just side characters. Captain Marvel was a team-up of Carol Danvers, Nick Fury, Maria Rambeau, and Talos. Winter Soldier was a team-up of Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanoff, Nick Fury, and Sam Wilson. They are all team-up movies under a particular hero's franchise within the larger MCU franchise.

Edited May 20, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[drotto]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

Ragnarok was a team-up of Thor, Hulk, Valkyrie, Loki, with an assist from Heimdall, Scourge, and Korg(sp). They weren't just side characters. Captain Marvel was a team-up of Carol Danvers, Nick Fury, Maria Rambeau, and Talos. Winter Soldier was a team-up of Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanoff, Nick Fury, and Sam Wilson. They are all team-up movies under a particular hero's franchise within the larger MCU franchise.

But it was still named Thor: Ragnorock, and the next is Thor: Love and Thunder.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

Ragnarok was a team-up of Thor, Hulk, Valkyrie, Loki, with an assist from Heimdall, Scourge, and Korg(sp). They weren't just side characters. Captain Marvel was a team-up of Carol Danvers, Nick Fury, Maria Rambeau, and Talos. Winter Soldier was a team-up of Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanoff, Nick Fury, and Sam Wilson. They are all team-up movies under a particular hero's franchise within the larger MCU franchise.

No, Ragnarok was a Thor movie in which Hulk, Loki, and Valkyrie (among others) were featured. It was a Thor story. The same goes for Captain Marvel, and The Winter Soldier films. They are not team-ups. They're movies that focus on the title character that feature side-characters.

The Avengers is a team-up movie. Guardians of the Galaxy is a team-up movie. The Eternals is a team-up movie.

[@therealsilvermane]

28 minutes ago, drotto said:

 

Then where do they get their Captain Marvel fix?  The two movies she has been in to this point?  It's not like US Graphic Novels are massive in popularity. Traditionally, character popularity is judged by movie appearances, TV appearances, book appearances, comic sales, merchandise and toys sales. In today's world, you can add internet buzz and searches. None of these metrics indicate massive popularity for Captain Marvel. Anecdotally, I see dozens of Captain America tee shirts on boys and girls for every one Captain Marvel shirt.

 

You say there is this massive fan base, and when you are given numbers that say otherwise, you find some way to write them off. You write off men that go to comic stores as not the target audience, when those same men are the majority of people that go to comic movies.  Comic movie audiences are 55 to 60% male.

 

Give me your sources that say the character is widely popular, show sone hard numbers. The vast number of sources I find seem to tell a very different story.

I didn't say Carol Danvers Captain Marvel has a massive fan base. Carol Danvers has only been an A-lister in Marvel for about 8 years. I will say she definitely has a strong following since her promotion to Captain Marvel with members of her fanbase calling themselves Carol Corps online and that growing fan base has gotten stronger since her MCU debut. The character is also just getting started in the MCU. We've yet to see an entire movie where she is full on full-powered Captain Marvel for the whole movie. She's only been in 1.5 movies. She hasn't even referred to herself as Captain Marvel yet, relying on a few others since Far From Home to call her by that name. Don't worry, as The Marvels approaches and finally arrives and as she takes the reigns of the MCU, you'll see plenty of Captain Marvel logo shirts to make you sick.

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

No, Ragnarok was a Thor movie in which Hulk, Loki, and Valkyrie (among others) were featured. It was a Thor story. The same goes for Captain Marvel, and The Winter Soldier films. They are not team-ups. They're movies that focus on the title character that feature side-characters.

The Avengers is a team-up movie. Guardians of the Galaxy is a team-up movie. The Eternals is a team-up movie.

I do have to agree.

If you look at who the key character was in the movie (even without the title factored in), it was clear who this was. Assuming because there were more than one character so it was an instant team-up is someone's perception versus reality.

[@therealsilvermane]

35 minutes ago, drotto said:

You write off men that go to comic stores as not the target audience, when those same men are the majority of people that go to comic movies.

I didn't write them off, just acknowledged that not every middle aged male customer of a LCS is necessarily a devoted Captain Marvel reader the way they are devoted to X-Men or Spider-Man. But there are definitely male consumers of the current Captain Marvel series. In fact, for the past few months, Captain Marvel has regularly sold out of copies in some of the LCS near me.

[theCapraAegagrus]

4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Carol Danvers has only been an A-lister in Marvel for about 8 years.

Are you a stand-up comedian? Is this part of your new gig?

[drotto]

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I didn't say Carol Danvers Captain Marvel has a massive fan base. Carol Danvers has only been an A-lister in Marvel for about 8 years. I will say she definitely has a strong following since her promotion to Captain Marvel with members of her fanbase calling themselves Carol Corps online and that growing fan base has gotten stronger since her MCU debut. The character is also just getting started in the MCU. We've yet to see an entire movie where she is full on full-powered Captain Marvel for the whole movie. She's only been in 1.5 movies. She hasn't even referred to herself as Captain Marvel yet, relying on a few others since Far From Home to call her by that name. Don't worry, as The Marvels approaches and finally arrives and as she takes the reigns of the MCU, you'll see plenty of Captain Marvel logo shirts to make you sick.

She is not A-list because Feige says she is, only fans determine that.  Until she has the metrics to prove it saying it does not make it so.  One movie does not make her A-list.  A long and sustained basis of popularity could.

[@therealsilvermane]

45 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

No, Ragnarok was a Thor movie in which Hulk, Loki, and Valkyrie (among others) were featured. It was a Thor story. The same goes for Captain Marvel, and The Winter Soldier films. They are not team-ups. They're movies that focus on the title character that feature side-characters.

The Avengers is a team-up movie. Guardians of the Galaxy is a team-up movie. The Eternals is a team-up movie.

I understand that there's still a lead in Winter Soldier and Civil War. I get that Steve Rogers was the emotional lead in both those movies. They were still team-up movies.

Let me clarify how I see it. Guardians of the Galaxy is a "team" movie, but it had a clear star. That was Peter Quill aka Star-Lord. More than any of the other characters, Guardians Vol. One was Peter Quill's story. He was the emotional lead. We don't know how Eternals will turn out, but Kevin Feige is on record saying Sersi will be the star (as I've been saying the past year).

The Avengers films are the only true ensemble team-up movies with no clear single star or emotional lead. Which is how it should be. It's the movie where all the solo movie stars team-up.

[pemart1966]

46 minutes ago, drotto said:

She is not A-list because Feige says she is, only fans determine that.  Until she has the metrics to prove it saying it does not make it so.  One movie does not make her A-list.  A long and sustained basis of popularity could.

You're forgetting that Feige is, in some eyes, a "genius" and how can a "genius" be wrong?    

Edited May 20, 2021 by pemart1966