Label Modifications

[Flaming_Telepath]

and why won't CGC put the date of espaculation??????

 

Because they have no idea what that means?

 

 

[Red Hook]

Did he mean the "date of emasculation"? Please see Greggy regarding that.

[nearmint]

It's too late to take about the color of the label .

 

A Dealer / Collector sends in a book and gets call from CGC your book graded a 8.5 but for a fee of 100 dollars are sister company PCS can make it a 9.0 .

 

It does not matter what is written on the label it's all worthless , it's every man / collector for himself , like shark infested waters .

 

Bill,

I'm not happy about PCS either. Not because I think anything shady will be going on, but because it allows for SUSPICION that something shady is going on. We'd all prefer a grading company completely above suspicion.

As I've said before, now that we all know what PCS will be doing, each of us needs to decide for ourselves whether to continue giving CGC our business.

For those of us who have decided to accept the new reality, giving CGC input on the new labels is a valuable exercise.

[mica]

For those of us who have decided to accept the new reality,

[drbanner]

A couple points:

 

1) More information is better, and in addition to the quality of material used and the extensiveness of the work, CGC is ADDING a variable to the equation that provides an indication of the aesthetic quality of the work - this is big. I have some great looking restored books (PLODS) in my collection (see scan below) and wouldn't mind owning more, but under the current schema a PLOD is a PLOD is a PLOD and you don't really know what you're going to get. As such, I did end up selling a couple of my PLODs b/c when I got the books, they turned out to be franken-books. I called CGC about these b/c I wanted to know what had been done and to make sure I was able to spot all the work.

 

So I agree with the label changes in principle, but the execution is a little confusing, which leads me to:

 

2) If CGC implements this schema, I think it's very important they provide the grader's notes on-line, with cliff notes and a plain english explanation of the label notes. Grader's notes were supposed to be available on-line this summer but that hasn't happened, and they would be invaluable to decipher the 22-degrees of ( separation between Borock and Kevin Bacon... ).

 

[joe_collector]

and why won't CGC put the date of espaculation??????

 

Because the dealers didn't ask for it.

[nearmint]

For those of us who have decided to accept the new reality,

 

Mica, what's your point?

[joe_collector]

Mica, what's your point?

 

[mica]

Is there a physical line that could one day get crossed?

[nearmint]

Is there a physical line that could one day get crossed?

 

You mean is there a line that CGC could cross that would be unacceptable? Of course.

[skybolt]

Awesome book drbanner.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Is there a physical line that could one day get crossed?

 

You mean is there a line that CGC could cross that would be unacceptable? Of course.

 

I'm not too sure...

 

Look back, say, three years ago and think of the 'lines' that have been crossed since then. Lines that, three years ago, would have been sacrosanct.

 

But since then, we've all invested far too heavily in 'the dream' and we're now being dragged along with all of this utter garbage because we can't see a personal way out.

 

So we push the line back, accept what in the clear light of day should be inconceivable, and keep funding Halperin's retirement fund.

[nearmint]

Is there a physical line that could one day get crossed?

 

You mean is there a line that CGC could cross that would be unacceptable? Of course.

 

I'm not too sure...

 

Look back, say, three years ago and think of the 'lines' that have been crossed since then. Lines that, three years ago, would have been sacrosanct.

 

But since then, we've all invested far too heavily in 'the dream' and we're now being dragged along with all of this utter garbage because we can't see a personal way out.

 

So we push the line back, accept what in the clear light of day should be inconceivable, and keep funding Halperin's retirement fund.

 

It's more black and white for me, I guess. The creation of PCS is regretable, IMO, but I understand a small company seeing a way to increase their profits.

 

On the other hand, if someone from CGC called me in 6 months and said "your Action #48 is grading out at 8.0, but we can guarantee you a 9.0 if you send it to PCS" , that would be crossing the line.

 

I should add that I don't think that's going to happen.

[Smokinghawk]

Heck, even THIS would be better:

 

 

At least something that can't be hidden in a tiny scan, that still gives a quick reference that something about this book needs to be understood.

[garthgantu]

 

On the other hand, if someone from CGC called me in 6 months and said "your Action #48 is grading out at 8.0, but we can guarantee you a 9.0 if you send it to PCS" , that would be crossing the line.

 

I should add that I don't think that's going to happen.

 

There are some who would say that precise scenario has played out many times over the past 3 or so years...

 

The new label system seems conducive to this - as CGC's vaunted resto detection comes into serious question, the whole restoration assignation on the slab fades away... as CGC starts making certain types of restoration available via a sister company, it's a much easier sell if you don't have to have the conversation about "so this definitely won't end up netting me a PLOD, right?"

 

Any estimates as to what % of the 500-600,000 books that CGC has graded are in PLODs / Qualified labels? I don't see how this opens any floodgates for resubs - more like a trickle, I'd imagine. So the next most likely explanation seems to be that this move will give CGC more flexibility to bend the already vague rules it has positioned as "the industry standard."

[14 of spades]

CGC took a lot of criticism in the early goings for having the different label colors. but the color scheme has been around a while, and now we're used to it.

 

HAD they used the all-blue system from the beginning, it would have been better than the PLOD, GLOD system.

 

but since the PLOD, GLOD system has been introduced, used, and (mostly) accepted, they shouldn't change now.

[joe_collector]

I look at it differently, that CGC actually NEEDED to take a hardline on Restoration when the company first started out, in order to drum up support at the grassroots level. By using the highly visible PLOD, it helped drive Blue Label books to unheard of prices, since buyers felt confident the books were unrestored.

 

Now it appears that CGC feels it has moved beyond the need to garner support from the "collector class" and has now totally changed their 5-year old label format to both fit into the new Friesen Pressing Emporium business plan and to help desperate dealers get rid of their Frankenbooks.

 

We'll have to wait and see if CGC can give the finger to the rank and file CGC collector, or whether this move is just another nail in the coffin.

[Sal]

if dealers are so desperate to get rid of their Frankenbooks, then why don't they just crack them out and sell them "as is?"

 

 

i swear, your use of hyperbole completely obscures the good points you have been making lately wrt this whole label redo

[underthebigw]

Well, the collectors who I know he showed the new labels to - several prominent board members among them - all liked it. He was showing them around on Saturday morning.

 

I say let these people stand up and be counted.. otherwise...

 

I'll confirm FD's account. And, despite my lack of prominence, I'll fess up to being initially positive about it when Steve showed it to us while we were setting up.

 

After thinking out the pressing issue and other concerns, though, I'm at best lukewarm regarding the changes. Part of me says if the rest/conservation is on the label, that's great. If you're dumb enough to be fooled by the color of the label, then you deserve every BLOD you buy. It allows the customer the chance to make an educated purchase. Are there some books I would buy with amateur CT--you bet. Are there others I wouldn't touch, most definitely.

 

On the other hand, I'd say my initial enthusiasm for it has been severely tempered by the pressing discussion. Now we are told, CGC will know when books are worked on by Friesen, and even worse, some books will go directly to CGC straight from the presses. Here's that huge conflict of interest we've all discussed before, except now it applues to all forms of restoration performed by Friesen and his staff.

[sterlingcomics]

I'll save everyone on the boards my opinion of these changes and issue a comment directly to CGC as directed. Who cares what I think anyway.