Popular Post Beastfeast Posted May 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 13, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 7:19 PM, Axe Elf said: So it's not so much that books are becoming more valuable, it's just that every time one is sold, it has to be sold for 20% more than the last time it was sold, just to pay for the cost of selling it (for the book to retain the same relative value, anyway). The whole thing just kind of builds on itself--and then y'all wonder why prices are skyrocketing. And all those increasing margins are flowing into the auction houses' and da'Bay's wallets. With all due respect, you just made all that up. october, F For Fake, MetalPSI and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) On 5/13/2022 at 6:19 PM, Axe Elf said: So it's not so much that books are becoming more valuable, it's just that every time one is sold, it has to be sold for 20% more than the last time it was sold, just to pay for the cost of selling it (for the book to retain the same relative value, anyway). The whole thing just kind of builds on itself--and then y'all wonder why prices are skyrocketing. And all those increasing margins are flowing into the auction houses' and da'Bay's wallets. And then there is... "They'll have theirs, you'll have yours and I'll have miiiiiiine!" ~ different strokes to RULE THE WORLD 🌎 Yes it does..... Edited May 13, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Do what I do Don't sell on the bay Don't buy off the bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 6:31 PM, Beastfeast said: With all due respect, you just made all that up. Not exactly. It's more of a conclusion drawn from the evidence presented. JC25427N and Beyonder123 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfeast Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 (edited) On 5/13/2022 at 7:19 PM, Axe Elf said: So it's not so much that books are becoming more valuable, it's just that every time one is sold, it has to be sold for 20% more than the last time it was sold, just to pay for the cost of selling it Can you point to which books are selling for 20% more than the last sale? Especially ones where that happens every time? Hyperbole is fun but if you're using a made up scenario to draw your conclusions from, your conclusion is going to be wrong. On 5/13/2022 at 7:19 PM, Axe Elf said: The whole thing just kind of builds on itself--and then y'all wonder why prices are skyrocketing. This is the example of the wrong conclusion. Prices were skyrocketing and Ebay fees were probably .069% of the reason why (I made up that number). On 5/13/2022 at 7:19 PM, Axe Elf said: And all those increasing margins are flowing into the auction houses' and da'Bay's wallets Increased realized prices absolutely flows into the auction houses' and Bay's wallet. You're right about that. Edited May 14, 2022 by Beastfeast JC25427N and MetalPSI 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, Beastfeast said: Can you point to which books are selling for 20% more than the last sale? Especially ones where that happens every time? Yes, easily. It would be all those books which maintain their value after being sold at a cost of 20% of the book's value every time. On 5/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, Beastfeast said: Prices were skyrocketing and Ebay fees were probably .069% of the reason why (I made up that number). Welcome to the world of educated guessing! On 5/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, Beastfeast said: Increased realized prices absolutely flows into the auction houses' and Bay's wallet. You're right about that. I'm glad we were able to arrive at these areas of common ground. Turnando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bookery Posted May 14, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2022 I don't really understand the concept that comes up in a lot of threads, that if you don't get 100% of retail (whatever that means) for an item you sell, you are somehow being ripped off. Nobody gets 100%. No matter how you sell, it will cost you money in order to make that sale. If the going rate (again, whatever that means) for an item is $100, and a dealer sells it for $100... he doesn't get to keep all of that money. A percentage goes to rent, utilities, staff, convention fees, travel, marketing, etc., etc. If you sell on eBay, for the service of them giving you access to a worldwide market, you will have to pay 15% or so, and all auctions are a crapshoot, so you may not get maximum value even to begin with. If you sell through Heritage, they ultimately take a 33% commission (unless you have a fantastic collection and can negotiate a better deal... even then the most you'll get is 75-80%). Other auction houses may have lower fees, but may also not reach as affluent a market. If you sell to a dealer you may get less, but you get cash immediately with no risk of returns or hassle, and the dealer will often buy material big auction houses won't want to fuss with. If you're selling a large mixed collection of good and weak material, selling to a dealer is often the only recourse. Even if you sell at a garage sale, you may have to buy ads, will likely get WAY below "market value", and exert a lot of time doing it. Selling on eBay also requires a huge commitment of time. Hold your own local auction? You'll pay an auctioneer, and likely reach a relatively small audience. When selling, all of these methods have advantages and disadvantages (if each didn't have its own advantage, it wouldn't exist). But NONE come without some expense in order to sell your item. vaultkeeper, 1950's war comics, Gonzimodo and 16 others 18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfeast Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 9:29 PM, Axe Elf said: Yes, easily. It would be all those books which maintain their value after being sold at a cost of 20% of the book's value every time. Welcome to the world of educated guessing! I'm glad we were able to arrive at these areas of common ground. I still don't understand the hill you're trying to die on here. Please excuse me if I'm misunderstanding your point but this is what I'm getting from you: Prices for comics are high because ebay fees are high and that people have to constantly up their prices in order to off-set the fees that they charge. Am I getting that right? Because that's categorically not true. Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 8:17 AM, Therapy? said: That's called "The Borock Effect". Twenty years of Steve preaching "don't leave money on the table" has affected people's brains A CEO that does what he wants instead of what he says? Hurrumph sir, I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 6:22 AM, Bookery said: Even if you sell at a garage sale, you may have to buy ads, will likely get WAY below "market value" This is the point I think most miss. They're thinking in terms of fees. "Why would I want to give eBay 15% of my sale when I can sell it myself for no fees. Or sell on isellcomics dot com for no fees". Well, I'd rather pay 15% and get $1000 than sell myself for $800 paying no fees. Bookery 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 9:48 AM, Beastfeast said: I still don't understand the hill you're trying to die on here. I don't know that I'm trying to die on ANY hill; I'm just pointing out a relationship between the value of an item and the cost of brokering it. On 5/14/2022 at 9:48 AM, Beastfeast said: Prices for comics are high because ebay fees are high and that people have to constantly up their prices in order to off-set the fees that they charge. IF the value of the book is to remain constant, that is correct; prices will continually have to rise in order for the same object to be worth the same amount it was worth before the transaction, plus the cost of brokering it. And that's just mathematically true. But I don't know if I would start with "Prices for comics are high because..." since "high" is a relative term; more like "Prices for comics will continue to climb because..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 Not sure if I agree with the sentiment that eBay fees are what's driving comic prices higher. eBay has charged fees since its inception. Before covid, comic prices saw a pedestrian increase year over year. Not 10% every time a comic changed hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjpb Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 People have been asking ridiculous prices on ebay since it started. Sometimes they sit there until the market catches up (if it does), sometimes they will negotiate down or lower the price until it sells, sometimes they just take them down, and for what ever reason once in a while something gets sold for a crazy price even when better copies can be had for less. The annoying thing is that they can start to clutter up listings when they renew and you want to see what's come on the market. alexgross.com 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookery Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 5:02 PM, Axe Elf said: IF the value of the book is to remain constant, that is correct; prices will continually have to rise in order for the same object to be worth the same amount it was worth before the transaction, plus the cost of brokering it. And that's just mathematically true. You're working backwards. The sale price (say $100) represents one thing and one thing only... the price a buyer was willing to pay for it at a specific point in time. The buyer doesn't care what percentage the seller gets, or if the selling is making or losing money. If the seller doesn't like that they are getting $80 (after fees) and raises their price to $120... it likely won't sell, because the buyers at that point are willing to pay just $100. I have people sell me comics all of the time and often may complain "but I paid more than that for it!". I don't care. The fact that you overpaid $200 for a $100 item is irrelevant to what I will pay for it. Likewise, if you found it at a flea market for $1, that doesn't mean I should pay you less for it. The rules of basic commerce (brokering fees, overhead, market escalations or deflation, demand, supply) don't change just because we're dealing in comic books. The stock market isn't going up because sellers keep trying to recoup a 2% brokerage fee. musicmeta and THE_BEYONDER 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/15/2022 at 7:45 AM, Bookery said: You're working backwards. The sale price (say $100) represents one thing and one thing only... the price a buyer was willing to pay for it at a specific point in time. The buyer doesn't care what percentage the seller gets, or if the selling is making or losing money. If the seller doesn't like that they are getting $80 (after fees) and raises their price to $120... it likely won't sell, because the buyers at that point are willing to pay just $100. I have people sell me comics all of the time and often may complain "but I paid more than that for it!". I don't care. The fact that you overpaid $200 for a $100 item is irrelevant to what I will pay for it. Likewise, if you found it at a flea market for $1, that doesn't mean I should pay you less for it. The rules of basic commerce (brokering fees, overhead, market escalations or deflation, demand, supply) don't change just because we're dealing in comic books. The stock market isn't going up because sellers keep trying to recoup a 2% brokerage fee. I take it you don't realize how irrelevant this is to the point I was making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 6:19 PM, Axe Elf said: So it's not so much that books are becoming more valuable, it's just that every time one is sold, it has to be sold for 20% more than the last time it was sold, just to pay for the cost of selling it (for the book to retain the same relative value, anyway). The whole thing just kind of builds on itself--and then y'all wonder why prices are skyrocketing. And all those increasing margins are flowing into the auction houses' and da'Bay's wallets. this isn't how a free market works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/15/2022 at 2:32 PM, darkstar said: this isn't how a free market works How does it? Graphical representation would be very welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/15/2022 at 3:33 PM, The Meta said: How does it? Graphical representation would be very welcome I can't ever tell if your posts are serious or not. steveinthecity and MetalPSI 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalPSI Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/15/2022 at 4:10 PM, darkstar said: I can't ever tell if your posts are serious or not. More than sure you aren't alone in that I was serious. I wasn't much for Social Studies in high school, while I think I understand the concept, I cannot pretend to know exactly how it would work in relation to comics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfeast Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 On 5/15/2022 at 2:08 PM, Axe Elf said: I take it you don't realize how irrelevant this is to the point I was making? If this many people are missing your point, I think that's a you problem. Because what you've written and what you apparently mean are two different things. JC25427N, Sweet Lou 14, Rob and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...