Unreleased photos of the Captain America Comics #1 San Francisco Copy 2 2

[Phill the Governor]

Hey everyone,

 

Enough time has passed for me to post this. Here's the short version:

A few years back I was in contact with and working on selling some books for a guy over in Cali. There were a few nice GA books he had, 4-5 figure books which I sold for his asking price, and sent him the payment once the books sold. Everything was going well, and after a few sales he goes "I've got a really big book, I think it's time to sell, think you may be able to find a buyer?" With the build up, I just assumed it was a high grade Action 1, Tec 27 or Bats 1. To my astonishment, it turned out to be the Captain America Comics #1 San Francisco copy. He wanted $500,000 cash for the book, which at the time only a few years ago would have by itself been a record price for Cap 1.

Cut to a month later he finally sends me a CD (A CD!!!) with about a dozen photos of the Cap 1 on it.

After reviewing it and discussing the book with my partner, we agreed that the $500,000k seemed realistic. There was a brief conversation with Heritage, and the plan was to go to Cali, have a conference room reserved at a bank, and my partner, a rep from Heritage and myself would inspect the book (since it was raw) and decide if the book was indeed the real deal and unrestored, and the deal was amenable. Heritage was going to front the $500,000, and my partner and myself would split the profits that went over the cost of the book. We were basically a day away from purchasing plane tickets... and the owner of the book told me that he was going on vacation for a few weeks and would get back to me.

 

Well needless to say, several weeks later I see scans of the book up at Heritage.

After my work to negotiate the deal and set everything up, I was down the creek without a paddle and had to watch the sale of the book go through as a observer. Which really sucked. I have no way to know exactly what transpired other than the book obviously going straight to Heritage (by himself or someone else). I was told by my partner, a short time later, that when the initial press release came out Heritage was contacted by someone claiming it was stolen (with the police report to corroborate the story) but at this point I have no way to know the validity of that.

Every time I see this book, or any Cap 1 for that matter, I am admittedly a bit salty. I am still a younger guy, and this deal would have changed quite a bit for me. But other things happened outside of my control to prevent it from going through. I can't imagine I'll have another "almost" catch like this is my lifetime.

Here are some of the photo's that were sent to me on that CD, which I still have.. If you notice, aside from pressing there were also staining removed from the back cover.

'

 

[Professor K]

Sorry you got cut out like that. That was a sneeky thing to do. I guess you should have met with him to inspect the book before HA was contacted. Live and learn right?

That stain on the back cover was pretty bad. To me removing it is restoration but that's just me. Beautiful book but 9.4? I think not.

2019 auction - https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/captain-america-comics-1-san-francisco-pedigree-timely-1941-cgc-nm-94-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7211-91053.s

Edited March 31, 2022 by Professor K

[Phill the Governor]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:56 PM, Professor K said:

Sorry you got cut out like that. That was a sneeky thing to do. I guess you should have met with him to inspect the book before HA was contacted. Live and learn right?

That stain on the back cover was pretty bad. To me removing it is restoration but that's just me. Beautiful book but 9.4? I think not.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/captain-america-comics-1-san-francisco-pedigree-timely-1941-cgc-nm-94-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7211-91053.s

Heritage did not know the identity of my client at the time, only my partner and myself. I would not shoot myself in the foot like that.

[Professor K]

Of course. Sorry. 

[jimbo_7071]

I can't imagine that that staining could be removed without some kind of chemical cleaning, which means it should have a PLOD.

Is there some kind of chemical cleaning being done now that CGC isn't able to detect? That's a concern.

Still, it sounds like the deal only "almost" happened because the seller was not well informed about the book's potential at auction.

On 3/30/2022 at 12:49 PM, Phill the Governor said:

Hey everyone,

 

Enough time has passed for me to post this. Here's the short version:

A few years back I was in contact with and working on selling some books for a guy over in Cali. There were a few nice GA books he had, 4-5 figure books which I sold for his asking price, and sent him the payment once the books sold. Everything was going well, and after a few sales he goes "I've got a really big book, I think it's time to sell, think you may be able to find a buyer?" With the build up, I just assumed it was a high grade Action 1, Tec 27 or Bats 1. To my astonishment, it turned out to be the Captain America Comics #1 San Francisco copy. He wanted $500,000 cash for the book, which at the time only a few years ago would have by itself been a record price for Cap 1.

Cut to a month later he finally sends me a CD (A CD!!!) with about a dozen photos of the Cap 1 on it.

After reviewing it and discussing the book with my partner, we agreed that the $500,000k seemed realistic. There was a brief conversation with Heritage, and the plan was to go to Cali, have a conference room reserved at a bank, and my partner, a rep from Heritage and myself would inspect the book (since it was raw) and decide if the book was indeed the real deal and unrestored, and the deal was amenable. Heritage was going to front the $500,000, and my partner and myself would split the profits that went over the cost of the book. We were basically a day away from purchasing plane tickets... and the owner of the book told me that he was going on vacation for a few weeks and would get back to me.

 

Well needless to say, several weeks later I see scans of the book up at Heritage.

After my work to negotiate the deal and set everything up, I was down the creek without a paddle and had to watch the sale of the book go through as a observer. Which really sucked. I have no way to know exactly what transpired other than the book obviously going straight to Heritage (by himself or someone else). I was told by my partner, a short time later, that when the initial press release came out Heritage was contacted by someone claiming it was stolen (with the police report to corroborate the story) but at this point I have no way to know the validity of that.

Every time I see this book, or any Cap 1 for that matter, I am admittedly a bit salty. I am still a younger guy, and this deal would have changed quite a bit for me. But other things happened outside of my control to prevent it from going through. I can't imagine I'll have another "almost" catch like this is my lifetime.

Here are some of the photo's that were sent to me on that CD, which I still have.. If you notice, aside from pressing there were also staining removed from the back cover.

'

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by jimbo_7071

[pemart1966]

Interesting story.  I'm a little slow on the uptake at times so I need some fill in:

1.  When you were to fly to California, what was supposed to be the procedure for the owner to get the book to you for inspection?

2.  You mention that you, your partner and a Heritage rep were to get together to inspect the book.  Was the owner not to be there as well?

3.  Did you have all of the necessary equipment to check for colour touch ups; restoration etc or 3 sets of eyes were to be enough?

4.  It'a been a few years as you said.  What happened after Heritage was contacted telling them that the book was stolen?  Was it true?  Did Heritage end up auctioning the book at this time; was there a delay until the claim was verified; or did they never auction it?

5.  If it was indeed stolen, was it the guy in California who had stolen it or was it stolen from him?  If it was the guy in California that stole the book the ownership of his previous 4-5 figure books has to be questioned...

Edited March 30, 2022 by pemart1966

[jimbo_7071]

On 3/30/2022 at 4:15 PM, pemart1966 said:

5.  If it was indeed stolen, was it the guy in California who had stolen it or was it stolen from him?  If it was the guy in California that sole the book the ownership of his previous 4-5 figure books has to be questioned...

I agree 100%!

[Phill the Governor]

On 3/30/2022 at 4:15 PM, pemart1966 said:

Interesting story.  I'm a little slow on the uptake at times so I need some fill in:

1.  When you were to fly to California, what was supposed to be the procedure for the owner to get the book to you for inspection?

2.  You mention that you, your partner and a Heritage rep were to get together to inspect the book.  Was the owner not to be there as well?

3.  Did you have all of the necessary equipment to check for colour touch ups; restoration etc or 3 sets of eyes were to be enough?

4.  It'a been a few years as you said.  What happened after Heritage was contacted telling them that the book was stolen?  Was it true?  Did Heritage end up auctioning the book at this time; was there a delay until the claim was verified; or did they never auction it?

5.  If it was indeed stolen, was it the guy in California who had stolen it or was it stolen from him?  If it was the guy in California that sole the book the ownership of his previous 4-5 figure books has to be questioned...

Yeah I didn't feel necessary to disclose every detail, merely my small portion of the story and some photos of the book in a bag without a backing board.

1. & 2. The owner of the book would have met us at the bank.

3. The specialist from Heritage would be trained to grade the book and find restoration if it were there. I work on books myself and trust my eye 100%.

4. & 5. The Cap was auctioned in 2019 very shortly after it was consigned, as per my story. The other part is completely unknown to me. I do not have direct contact with anyone at Heritage and the story was only relayed to me by one person. If I remember correctly, the consignor (presumably my client) split the selling price at some percentage with the original owner who it was originally stolen from. So I just assumed it was true and moved on. I would say it's a stretch to say the other books were in question too since the validity of the Cap being stolen in the first place is in question, let alone if it were the client I was selling the book for, or the person who sold it to him, or the previous party, etc...

 

[Terry JSA]

Sorry to hear that you were cut from the deal, but this was an interesting story.

Was there any particular reason as to why your client sent you a dozen photos of the Cap #1 on a CD?

[tth2]

On 3/31/2022 at 2:02 AM, Phill the Governor said:

Heritage did not know the identity of my client at the time, only my partner and myself. I would not shoot myself in the foot like that.

Did your client know about Heritage?

[Professor K]

On 3/30/2022 at 9:24 PM, Terry JSA said:

Sorry to hear that you were cut from the deal, but this was an interesting story.

Was there any particular reason as to why your client sent you a dozen photos of the Cap #1 on a CD?

I don't want to answer for the Governor but that was probably before he decided to screw him over. 

Btw I would think stolen comics, even if they were graded and cracked, is a hard thing to get the law and the courts to enforce and from there prove in court. I suppose with a big value book like this it may be easier. Like the Pennyworth collection. Those guys got caught because they tried to sell them still slabbed to that meddling dealer who reported it and luckily the police took it seriously.  Had they cracked them they probably would have got away with it. 

[Professor K]

On 3/30/2022 at 3:49 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

 

Still, it sounds like the deal only "almost" happened because the seller was not well informed about the book's potential at auction.

You think? So this guy had a high grade Cap 1 and didn't know it was worth a fortune? Possible but more likely at some point after he sent the CD he decided to pull a fast one.

[Cat-Man_America]

This looks like the makings of a great Sherlock Holmes story.  I'm just not sure whether it's "The Case of the Undisclosed Theft" or "The Case of the Missing Stain."

[Phill the Governor]

On 3/30/2022 at 9:24 PM, Terry JSA said:

Was there any particular reason as to why your client sent you a dozen photos of the Cap #1 on a CD?

The CD was sent so I could view pictures of the book after it was brought up. Based on the photos alone I had decide if it was worth the risk of buying the plane ticket and going to view it in person.

 

On 3/31/2022 at 12:08 AM, tth2 said:

Did your client know about Heritage?

Yes. But again at the time, his $500,000 price that I was going to get him was guaranteed. He had no notion of the grade/nature of the book to begin with, just that it appeared to be high grade. So from our conversation he was well aware he could just take it to Heritage and consign the book himself, but by doing so if the book went for say $450,000 he'd be out 50k + the associated fees. So the "safer" thing for him to do was take a cash offer that was guaranteed (and at the time already a record price). 

 

On 3/31/2022 at 1:11 AM, Professor K said:

You think? So this guy had a high grade Cap 1 and didn't know it was worth a fortune? Possible but more likely at some point after he sent the CD he decided to pull a fast one.

He knew it was worth a fortune, enter in his $500,000 idealized price. I do not know who actually consigned the book, whether him, or someone else he decided to sell the book to who then consigned it directly to Heritage.

[Dark Knight]

Looks like the back cover stain above the type writer was removed

[tth2]

On 4/1/2022 at 12:24 AM, Phill the Governor said:

On 3/31/2022 at 9:24 AM, Terry JSA said:

Was there any particular reason as to why your client sent you a dozen photos of the Cap #1 on a CD?

The CD was sent so I could view pictures of the book after it was brought up. Based on the photos alone I had decide if it was worth the risk of buying the plane ticket and going to view it in person.

I think Terry's question was more along the lines of "In this day and age, who sends pictures on a CD?"

[Terry JSA]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:14 PM, tth2 said:

I think Terry's question was more along the lines of "In this day and age, who sends pictures on a CD?"

It was more along the lines of “Out of all the possible ways he could have sent you pictures, why did he choose a CD?”

[lou_fine]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:41 PM, Terry JSA said:

On 3/31/2022 at 7:14 PM, tth2 said:

I think Terry's question was more along the lines of "In this day and age, who sends pictures on a CD?"

It was more along the lines of “Out of all the possible ways he could have sent you pictures, why did he choose a CD?”

Oh come on now, you two.....................you make it sound like CD's are antiquated and something from back in the Stone Age. 

I still remember being given a handful of CD's about 15 years ago, with each of them holding the scans of the raw books from the Chinatown Collection and asked if I could get in contact with the right people in order to help get the collection pedigreed and included as part of the then soon to be published Pedigree Book.    

Needless to say, Timely was a big help here who then put me in contact with Ritter who was the one that ended up putting in countless hours and months of work in compiling all of the stats and then doing a draft writeup on the collection.  And as we all know, we are all still waiting for this Pedigree Book to come out.      

 

[tth2]

On 4/1/2022 at 3:49 PM, lou_fine said:

Oh come on now, you two.....................you make it sound like CD's are antiquated and something from back in the Stone Age. 

I still remember being given a handful of CD's about 15 years ago, with each of them holding the scans of the raw books from the Chinatown Collection

2007 WAS like the Stone Age when it came to transmitting big files, although I guess cloud storage sites were starting to become a thing at that point.  But even in 2007, it would've been easier to just put everything on a flash drive and mail it than burn a CD. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by tth2

[Lukesaurus]

Flash memory was still pretty expensive in 2007 , a CD is cheaper .