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[Guest Race]

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Edited July 1, 2022 by Guest

[Fischb1]

You are giving yourself/this board way too much credit. Did Bill acknowledge it? Sure. Did he make a joke about it to Anthony when he mentioned crotch grabs? Sure. But that's it. Anthony didn't present better art because of this board. He happened to buy that cover before Heroes and was planning on offering it on DD if it didn't sell at Heroes (he told me then). And there was no "tension" as you describe it. This board is fun to read at times but mostly you guys take yourselves way too seriously. It's easy to sit at your computers criticizing a product others have made while you create nothing. Hundreds of people enjoy the show weekly and have a lot of fun hanging out and buying art. It galvanized a community during the long months of Covid, and a lot of us recently met up at Heroes and had a blast. For someone so offended by the garishness of the show, you sure do spend a lot of time watching it! 

[Guest Race]

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Edited July 1, 2022 by Race

[Fischb1]

Good response. I agree there can be fewer half-naked memes. But it's also the quirkiness of the personalities involved that helped build the audience. If people just wanted a straight claim sale, Dealmakers would've done better. 

[jjonahjameson11]

Race, I’m all for progress and improvements, but I spent 22 hrs at my friends’ OA booth this past weekend at HeroesCon, and I counted a grand total of 3 females looking at the OA. We were very busy throughout the entire show.

The 3 females didn’t purchase any OA or signed prints

 Perhaps it’s different at other venues or online shows?  Do the online shows have a lot of female viewers?  Have they purchased any OA from these claim shows?

[Guest Race]

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Edited July 1, 2022 by Race

[jjonahjameson11]

I didn’t say that all OA collectors were men. I merely stated that there were only a handful at the booth I worked at this weekend

whether cosplayers or casual flipping through boxes of comics results in the next gen of OA collectors is difficult to confirm.

im certain there are female collectors out there, but they probably represent under 5% of the OA collectors, give it take a few %?

[Guest Race]

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Edited July 1, 2022 by Race

[New School Fool]

On 6/30/2022 at 2:52 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Race, I’m all for progress and improvements, but I spent 22 hrs at my friends’ OA booth this past weekend at HeroesCon, and I counted a grand total of 3 females looking at the OA. We were very busy throughout the entire show.

The 3 females didn’t purchase any OA or signed prints

 Perhaps it’s different at other venues or online shows?  Do the online shows have a lot of female viewers?  Have they purchased any OA from these claim shows?

Care to elaborate on this comment? Because to me it seems you're saying "I don't have many female customers, therefore I can be as crude and as sexist as I want"

[cloud cloddie]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:34 AM, Race said:

So let's go there then. Since most OA collectors are probably older, straight, white men would it be OK to make gay jokes on a show? Or black jokes? Of course not... so why tolerate "dong" and crotch jokes? We are beyond that by quite some measure, I believe.

I mean, you’re beyond it, but it doesn’t surprise me that someone who wears sweat pants as formal wear is not. 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:35 AM, New School Fool said:

Care to elaborate on this comment? Because to me it seems you're saying "I don't have many female customers, therefore I can be as crude and as sexist as I want"

I’m not saying that at all and it’s becoming quite frustrating having to reply to folks ‘interpretation’ of what I said.

[vodou]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:40 AM, cloud cloddie said:

I mean, you’re beyond it, but it doesn’t surprise me that someone who wears sweat pants as formal wear is not. 

Fair point. The criticisms have been posted and the other side of the discussion is clearly now aware, not much else to do - people act as they see fit (or don't care enough to consider the matter to begin with). That's how it should be. And so..? Nothing. That's that. I've heard Anthony referred to as Fred Sanford, and Mike...well, people have their own varied thoughts and feelings on him in any number of dimensions, some not positive. Nothing written about this today is surprising. What would have been surprising was some sort of ah-ha! moment where those some have referred to as sociopaths suddenly became...empathetic. The two really don't occupy the same space in the Venn diagram of human psychology, so...unsurprising.

[Peter L]

I think there are good points brought up on this thread, but ultimately it is up to whoever creates the show to whatever they want it to be.  

I love a certain type of old films and I was a member of the largest facebook group that I was in on these old films.  The moderators ran the group the way they wanted which was arbitrary and often inconsistent with film journalism, clung to weird marginalized theories about films, and looked like a bunch of people where power got to their head but also were not that smart.  They ran the group the way they wanted to which was their right.  I started my own group just before covid and for a long time I was the only one posting.  Then in about six months I had more people in the group than that toxic group which was in existence for over 10 years.  Today there are almost five times as many people in my group as in their group.  

This is not a criticism toward either party on this thread.  Simply that I know how hard it is to create something.  If you want something different, you should create it yourself.  I didn't like the toxic film group so I made my own the way I thought it should be done.  The Comic Art Live people are making the kind of show they want to see.  I would probably like the webcast that Race envisions better.  But making your own show the way you want is a more effective way to deal with this than trying to remake someone else's show.

[Rick2you2]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:40 AM, cloud cloddie said:

I mean, you’re beyond it, but it doesn’t surprise me that someone who wears sweat pants as formal wear is not. 

What sort of cumberbund goes with sweat pants? 

[Rick2you2]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:05 AM, Race said:

I think the owner of https://tdartgallery.com/ would disagree about OA collectors being entirely male LOL

It's not just women, it is younger people, period. I am Gen X and work with both Millennial and Gen Z and they do not make sexual jokes at all. That is just our current environment, for better or worse. As for seeing women at cons, I see plenty browsing comics -- and today's collectors are the future OA audience, no?

Those collectors aren’t entirely male, of course, but a fair number of the women probably go for the same reason my better half goes to cons—to share time with me. She has also been duly rewarded, like with illustrations of naked women by Howard Chaykin (among other things)(just terrible I have to look at their framed derrières all the time, shameful). I know in this age of Woke I am supposed to give a &)#9#;# about all this sensitivity, but unless something is maliciously offensive, or racist, instead of just kinda dumb, I ignore it (although, I am getting interested in Sambo art). How can’t I ignore it, knowing full well that George Perez’s initial claim to fame rested on the overly developed woman’s torso? And clearly, the stuff sells, so there is a bit of hypocrisy about the whole subject. The more disturbing part for me would be spending hours watching shows like this without finding something worth buying. Now, back to hunting Phantom Stranger art.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Rick2you2

[pkveronese]

On 6/30/2022 at 9:05 AM, Race said:

I think the owner of https://tdartgallery.com/ would disagree about OA collectors being entirely male LOL

It's not just women, it is younger people, period. I am Gen X and work with both Millennial and Gen Z and they do not make sexual jokes at all. That is just our current environment, for better or worse. As for seeing women at cons, I see plenty browsing comics -- and today's collectors are the future OA audience, no?

 

I don't speak up often in this forum, but I want to echo this sentiment. I'm a millennial, but heck, I've been doing this for two decades. Those types of jokes do not fly with myself and 95%+ of our generation. These tactics ACTIVELY work to make our hobby smaller and more insular.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by pkveronese

[Hockeyflow33]

People take themselves way too seriously...

[Phill the Governor]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:34 AM, Race said:

So let's go there then. Since most OA collectors are probably older, straight, white men would it be OK to make gay jokes on a show? Or black jokes? Of course not... so why tolerate "dong" and crotch jokes? We are beyond that by quite some measure, I believe.

Always going to be someone offended by something. 

The hobby consists mostly of people between the ages of 20-70. So we've got individuals who are the products of half a century and multiple generations of shifting culture. In addition, there will always be individuals from every generation who missed the mark, and or have a lower degree of etiquette and standards. If you expect everyone to conform to your inclusive needs you'll be let down.

 

[jaybuck43]

Let's also remember, Anthony is Jimmy the Greek's son.  You know, the guy fired for making inappropriate comments on NATIONAL TELEVISION.  So I don't think making Anthony "PC" is going to happen...

[Unstoppablejayd]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:05 AM, Race said:

I think the owner of https://tdartgallery.com/ would disagree about OA collectors being entirely male LOL

It's not just women, it is younger people, period. I am Gen X and work with both Millennial and Gen Z and they do not make sexual jokes at all. That is just our current environment, for better or worse. As for seeing women at cons, I see plenty browsing comics -- and today's collectors are the future OA audience, no?

I do not think siting Tatiana from TD is appropriate as you are using her as a tool in your story while she is actually a staunch supporter of the Caf shows and has participated as a dueling dealer herself. I understand your criticism.. but crass humor still gets a laugh whether right or wrong and I personally prefer dueling dealers to the stuffed shirt sleepy time of dealmakers,