NEW POLL: To decide if we should add a rule to the Forum Marketplace 3 3

[Domo Arigato]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:38 PM, wombat said:

I thought you did a good job with the first poll. I think any poll that is only going to have two choices (no rule and one of the rule options) is just inherently flawed. 

I tried to cover several different options in the first poll.  But Mike would rather have a clear simple majority to institute a new rule rather than just a majority.  Otherwise, with five choices, a new rule could have been implemented with only 21 percent of the voters wanting that particular choice.  That could have left 79 percent in possible disagreement with it.  The numbers weren't quite that drastic, but about 67.5 percent of the people didn't vote for the choice that got the most votes in the original poll.

No poll is going to satisfy everyone in here.....but this one will at least give a clear answer.  If someone doesn't want this particular rule implemented.....they should simply vote for no new rule to be added.    

[Domo Arigato]

Having said that......yes, a drill down process could have been used. 

I could have started a thread to take suggestions for possible new rules......then perhaps started an initial poll with 10 of those suggestions......and then a new poll afterwards with the top 5 choices from that first poll......and then another poll with the top two choices from that one.......and then a final poll with the top rule from the previous poll or no new rule as the two possible choices.

But I'm not doing all of that.  As I mentioned to someone previously........I'm not trying to write a policy and procedure manual for IBM on how to construct their next supercomputer for the government.  

This is the possible rule being offered.  If someone doesn't agree with it, or just doesn't like it....the decision is easy......vote against it.

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Domo Arigato

[bronze_rules]

I think so far, the polls are pretty well aligned (total yes vs no). But it will be interesting to see how the people who voted for yes with a condition vote decide. They could just decide no vote is better than taking away their desired condition. 

The people who are adamant about just voting yes without any conditions are likely to remain the same in their view, so I expect the first yes voters to not deviate much. 

I get the idea of wanting a larger consensus now. The more choices you add, the harder it would be to arrive at that, so this seems to be the way to go. 

[Readcomix]

Asking out of ignorance — what makes legitimate pre-orders such as SS books a foolproof exception? Similar things that we are trying to address here really can’t go comparably wrong in those instances? (Not being a snark; I’m truly clueless as to what makes a safe exception)

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:21 PM, Readcomix said:

Asking out of ignorance — what makes legitimate pre-orders such as SS books a foolproof exception? Similar things that we are trying to address here really can’t go comparably wrong in those instances? (Not being a snark; I’m truly clueless as to what makes a safe exception)

We could just make the Signature Room exempt from the rule.  I think most SS pre-sales happen there anyway.

Edited July 20, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER

[Domo Arigato]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:21 PM, Readcomix said:

Asking out of ignorance — what makes legitimate pre-orders such as SS books a foolproof exception? Similar things that we are trying to address here really can’t go comparably wrong in those instances? (Not being a snark; I’m truly clueless as to what makes a safe exception)

That's a fair question, and it will be up to Mike to decide. 

I don't deal with them, but my understanding is that sometimes, the best or even only way to get a particular book and/or signature might be through a pre-order.....so I wanted to leave an "out" for that possibility.  I'm really not trying to interfere with someone's legitimate business in here.

If the new rule passes........Mike can either decide to fine tune the rule to state what type of pre-orders he will allow........or he can simply leave it up to his later judgement.  In that case, if a sales thread seems to be pushing the boundaries for an actual pre-order, then a member can report the thread and leave the final decision up to Mike.

What is clear, is that two scenarios will no longer be allowed if this rule is implemented. 

The first scenario is when books are supposedly being sold on "consignment", but the seller doesn't actually have them in their possession.  If you are selling a book(s) for someone else, you are going to be required to have them in hand prior to listing them for sale on the forum. 

The second scenario is books being listed for sale that are still at CGC, or are on their way back from CGC, and aren't actually in the sellers possession.  Those people are going to need to wait until they actually get their books back in their hands before selling them in the forum.  

Under this rule, neither of those two scenarios will be allowed.    

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Domo Arigato]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:14 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I went back and read some of my previous posts.  Some of them seem pretty snarky......so my apologies to everyone.

I only meant for them to be a little snarky. 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

[MetalPSI]

My wife says my sample size is a single serving

Edited July 20, 2022 by The Meta

[Bird]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:21 PM, Readcomix said:

Asking out of ignorance — what makes legitimate pre-orders such as SS books a foolproof exception? Similar things that we are trying to address here really can’t go comparably wrong in those instances? (Not being a snark; I’m truly clueless as to what makes a safe exception)

I don't do SS so this seems off to me as well. Aren't those books coming back from cgc just like non-SS books? Or more clearly, there is no legit reason to not have books in hand if you are selling so why exempt the SS?

Edited July 20, 2022 by Bird

[Bird]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:19 AM, Domo Arigato said:

I went back and read some of my previous posts.  Some of them seem pretty snarky......so my apologies to everyone.

I only meant for them to be a little snarky. 

 

You do seem VERY defensive about it. I was thinking about replying as Scarlet Witch...this is me being reasonable. I am not being mean.

 

 

[Bird]

On 7/17/2022 at 6:27 PM, Domo Arigato said:

What does a legitimate pre-sale look like?  Ask a thousand people in here and you're going to get a thousand different answers. 

this is why I questioned it's inclusion in the poll, the ambiguity here hurts the poll validity and reliability.

[CGC Mike]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:04 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

We could just make the Signature Room exempt from the rule.  I think most SS pre-sales happen there anyway.

It's my understanding, that the signature series forum is exempt from the marketplace rules.  In over 10 years of moderating here, I have not had to go there once for any selling.  I am a little torn as to which way to go for allowing pre sales in the selling forums.  It's my feeling that they should not be exempt from the rule.  This is something we will have to work out after this poll is finished.  

[Bird]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:57 AM, CGC Mike said:

that the signature series forum is exempt from the marketplace rules.

well, if there ain't no problems I guess they handle their business. I knew original art was somewhat exempt for selling rules but did not know about SS. well, I've learned my thing for the day, let ignorance reign for the next 23 hours.

[Bird]

so if the rules do not apply to SS, why not leave the ambiguity about ss books out of the final rule? Then the rule would read much more simply and SS can ignore it as they do without issue. (I am talking about the "final" rule if there is one, not the poll Q.)

[CGC Mike]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:04 AM, Bird said:

well, if there ain't no problems I guess they handle their business. I knew original art was somewhat exempt for selling rules but did not know about SS. well, I've learned my thing for the day, let ignorance reign for the next 23 hours.

There is guidelines for the OA section but, they are much more relaxed compared to the forum only comics selling sections.

[CGC Mike]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:06 AM, Bird said:

so if the rules do not apply to SS, why not leave the ambiguity about ss books out of the final rule? Then the rule would read much more simply and SS can ignore it as they do without issue. (I am talking about the "final" rule if there is one, not the poll Q.)

Sometimes, SS presale does spill over into the forum only selling sections.  Ideally, a 3rd choice in this poll would have been best but, I don't think not having it will skew the results.  I think this is something we should address after this poll is finished.  If it is decided in another poll that people don't want presales to be exempt, I would just edit the new rule from this poll, provided the majority vote for option #1.

[Domo Arigato]

On 7/20/2022 at 6:29 AM, Bird said:

You do seem VERY defensive about it. I was thinking about replying as Scarlet Witch...this is me being reasonable. I am not being mean.

Try doing one of these polls and satisfying everybody and maybe you'll understand.

Everyone always seems to have their own idea on how to do it right.  Yet their idea is different from everyone else's way to do it right. 

People brought up the idea in the other thread that an exception could be needed for legitimate pre-orders....so it was put in.  If it hadn't been, there would probably be somebody different in here gritching to have it added.

As I said...the tweaking of the final rule will be up to Mike if/when he adds it to the official rule list.  If he wants to make it with no exceptions, and that isn't going to affect anyone in the regular sales forums, then I don't see why anyone would care.

I don't do signature series......but when I think of something like a pre-sale, I think of a scenario like the following:

Hey everyone.....artist X is selljng his exclusive convention cover of Billy Badass #1, and they're only available at my local con.  They're $20 each, or $30 each signed.  Let me know how many you'd like of each one and send me payment and I'll pick them up for you.

A rule with no exception would not allow this.

@CGC Mike

[Bird]

On 7/20/2022 at 9:12 AM, Domo Arigato said:

Try doing one of these polls and satisfying everybody and maybe you'll understand.

I do understand. I could easily have replied "I dare you to..." at any time. ("I dare you to make the choices 100% of possible options" etc) I am trying to share my knowledge of test construction in the chance you are interested in improving the polls you obviously enjoy making. I have written multiple choice tests and undergone item analysis, not in many moons but I have done so. You seem to enjoy making them and isn't feedback critical to the process? I was just replying this morning to your own post about being overly snarky. It is a shaping process. Less is more in my opinion. Less words to be interpreted means more valid results. Satisfy the scientific process, not the people taking the poll.

I did hide my earliest response so as to not skew the results or threadkrap. I hid it well before it got quoted I think, so must be a boardie of the year trick to have it resurrected.

 

so for example, I may have done 1st poll "a proposed rule for consignment books, pre-orders, books not back from cgc and other situations where books are not in possession of the person listing them for sale"

a) hardfast rule, you must be in possession of all books listed for sale

b) exceptions should be made, a softer rule should be formed that allows for exceptions.

c) no rule is needed

Then if b gets votes, a poll for exceptions to the rule blah blah blah

a) only books at cgc - any label

b) only SS books

Not being a spoon, just wanted to give an example

Edited July 20, 2022 by Bird
okay, did that quickly, not sure if it meets my own criteria but that is okay...feedback and all