C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[Axelrod]

On 8/21/2022 at 1:42 AM, ExNihilo said:

One can only hope that we keep the pressure up that long that CGC is constantly reminded of it's wrongdoing.

They are not feeling pressure anymore, I don't think.

They first line of my made up statement from them is:  "We have heard all the complaining about our recent grading of the Black Flag Crain Acetate editions, and we would like to take this opportunity to say:  Give me a f****** break "

[Gaard]

CGC - "Instead of admitting to all this BS (and then lying about it), let's just keep quiet, never admitting to any wrongdoing, and eventually it'll become old news."

[Bookery]

Just to keep the arguments factual, so as not to distract from important facts... the issue discussed is NOT a bootleg or a counterfeit, as has been cited numerous times.  The underlying comic is an authorized reprint of UF4.  An UN-authorized all-new overlay has been added on top of the comic.  A bootleg is an illegal reprinting of an existing item, not something added to that item. This is an unauthorized variant, or a married cover (your choice).  And to that point... a lot of time is spent complaining about Black Flag and their artist.  But really... why would we care?  That's a legal matter between them and Marvel.  It could also be of concern to those who bought one under the belief it was an authorized variant.  But for the rest of us... 

The issue pertinent to the collectibles community is how these books were labeled and graded by CGC, and how they will deal with similar items in the future, so as we know what to expect.  It's just that simple.  The rest is just distraction.

[jcjames]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:45 AM, Bookery said:

Just to keep the arguments factual, so as not to distract from important facts... the issue discussed is NOT a bootleg or a counterfeit, as has been cited numerous times.  ... An UN-authorized all-new overlay has been added on top of the comic.  A bootleg is an illegal reprinting of an existing item, not something added to that item. This is an unauthorized variant, or a married cover (your choice).  ....

The issue pertinent to the collectibles community is how these books were labeled and graded by CGC, and how they will deal with similar items in the future, so as we know what to expect.  It's just that simple.  The rest is just distraction.

EXACTLY!!!! 

On 8/13/2022 at 2:18 AM, Skwerl said:

All of this nonsense has just been stewing and stinking for the past couple days, but where I'm at now is I just don't understand how CGC can be so willing to make exceptions on this stuff, no matter what their reasoning is. ...When something like this abomination shows up at CGC, how in the multiverse does the decision wind up being to let it slide?

 

Who wants to be the grading company known for letting dubious or suspicious things slide like this?

 

No one picks CGC because they're the fun guys who grade wacky invisible comics.

 

How is any amount of money from some bobo fly-by-night publisher like Black Flag worth a decision that isn't the conservative route?

 

How is it not that every decision made by CGC errs on the side of caution? ....

 

But why would you risk certifying something or giving it a high grade if there's even the slightest hint of impropriety? 

 

At the end of this timeline, CGC 9.9s are the new PGX 9.8s.

EXACTLY!!! 

Quote

....how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the [ad hoc] rules we applied to his books:

   The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
   The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
    A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.
 

 

So... using these new, ad-hoc "rules" - Any time anyone submits a CGC SS book for an artist-signing whereby, the artist in the process of "producing" this signed copy, puts a fingerprint, a crease, a bend or an extra pair of staples and holes in the book... all those damages will now be overlooked during grading because those modifications were "created by an established artist in the industry" and the extra damage was to "a cover by the same artist". Great to know.

Really though - how does punching four extra holes into the book post-production just get ignored and given a 9.8, 9.9 and 10 grade. The underlying original books were DAMAGED. The addition of the extra cover is NOT publisher or production-related - and it is NOT the same as a signature or remark - it is post-publishing DAMAGE to the book.

How is it possible to ADD a second cover to a previously-published book, damage the underlying original book in the process, and then come out with a 10 grade for the book as a whole, as if it was a single-cover original book?

Did they even look inside to see if the original cover or interior pages had any bindery-tears or ANY production defects whatsoever? 

If these acetated Frankenbooks are a "10" then that means the original underlying book must have also been a "10", otherwise there are defects in the original book that were ignored in issuing the "10" grade to these particular "Paid-For-Grade" books. 

 

And lastly....

So now that CGC is engaged in the actual editorial production of the books that they grade (they inspected and approved the proposed "unauthorized variants or married covers" of these books before the books were submitted for grading) - then how in the bloody heck of fark can they still say they provide "objective and impartial assessments of authenticity and grade" when in fact:

A) THEY are the ones determining who is an "established artist" and who isn't, and

B) THEY are the ones who team up with said "established artists" and give final editorial cover-approval of the Frankenbooks before certifying the so-called "impartial" grades (which are hyperinflated BS grades and everyone in the industry can see the B$ CGC is pulling with these). 
 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by jcjames

[Gaard]

On 8/21/2022 at 2:21 PM, jcjames said:

 

So... using these new, ad-hoc "rules" - Any time anyone submits a CGC SS book for an artist-signing whereby, the artist in the process of "producing" this signed copy, puts a fingerprint, a crease, a bend or an extra pair of staples and holes in the book... all those damages will now be overlooked during grading because those modifications were "created by an established artist in the industry" and the extra damage was to "a cover by the same artist". Great to know.

Really though - how does punching four extra holes into the book post-production just get ignored and given a 9.8, 9.9 and 10 grade. The underlying original books were DAMAGED. The addition of the extra cover is NOT publisher or production-related - and it is NOT the same as a signature or remark - it is post-publishing DAMAGE to the book.

How is it possible to ADD a second cover to a previously-published book, damage the underlying original book in the process, and then come out with a 10 grade for the book as a whole, as if it was a single-cover original book?

Did they even look inside to see if the original cover or interior pages had any bindery-tears or ANY production defects whatsoever? 

If these acetated Frankenbooks are a "10" then that means the original underlying book must have also been a "10", otherwise there are defects in the original book that were ignored in issuing the "10" grade to these particular "Paid-For-Grade" books. 

 

And lastly....

So now that CGC is engaged in the actual editorial production of the books that they grade (they inspected and approved the proposed "unauthorized variants or married covers" of these books before the books were submitted for grading) - then how in the bloody heck of fark can they still say they provide "objective and impartial assessments of authenticity and grade" when in fact:

A) THEY are the ones determining who is an "established artist" and who isn't, and

B) THEY are the ones who team up with said "established artists" and give final approval of the Frankenbooks before certifying the so-called "impartial" grades (which are hyperinflated BS grades and everyone in the industry can see the B$ CGC is pulling with these).

If CGC took the time to address a single post in this long thread with many, many concerns ... I would like this to be that post.

[Axelrod]

Don't you ungrateful whining losers understand that CGC, singlehandedly, revolutionized the comic book collecting industry?

[southern cross]

On 8/21/2022 at 12:25 PM, Axelrod said:

Don't you ungrateful whining losers understand that CGC, singlehandedly, revolutionized the comic book collecting industry?

[Axelrod]

We grade hundreds of thousands of comics every year.  The vast majority of those are completely fair, legitimate grades.

So if we give out a few gift grades to some of our good friends at Black Flag, or Heritage, or other prominent members of the collecting community, that's just good business, and ya'll can just chill about it.  

[southern cross]

[davet75]

FTFY (for you tone deaf Boardies)

On 8/21/2022 at 3:25 PM, Axelrod said:

Don't you ungrateful whining losers understand that CGC, singlehandedly, revolutionized the comic book collecting industry?

On 8/21/2022 at 4:11 PM, Axelrod said:

We grade hundreds of thousands of comics every year.  The vast majority of those are completely fair, legitimate grades.

So if we give out a few gift grades to some of our good friends at Black Flag, or Heritage, or other prominent members of the collecting community, that's just good business, and ya'll can just chill about it.  

/s

[dupont2005]

What 90’s comic do you think there’s still unopened boxes of out there? Staple a SUPREME bumper sticker to it and pay whatever it costs for CGC to give the whole box 10.0 blue label slabs and $$$ on Instagram

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/21/2022 at 1:52 AM, Cman429 said:

I really wish he’d make an acetate overlay for xforce #1. I’d love to see what he’d add. All I’d want is the acetate, we all have dozens and dozens of xforce 1s, I’d be happy to staple it together myself. 

Genius. Acetate over a sketch cover allows you to commission an actual artist to fill in all the details that Liefeld can't be bothered to draw in the first place.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/21/2022 at 12:45 PM, Bookery said:

Just to keep the arguments factual, so as not to distract from important facts... the issue discussed is NOT a bootleg or a counterfeit, as has been cited numerous times.  The underlying comic is an authorized reprint of UF4.  An UN-authorized all-new overlay has been added on top of the comic.  A bootleg is an illegal reprinting of an existing item, not something added to that item. This is an unauthorized variant, or a married cover (your choice).  And to that point... a lot of time is spent complaining about Black Flag and their artist.  But really... why would we care?  That's a legal matter between them and Marvel.  It could also be of concern to those who bought one under the belief it was an authorized variant.  But for the rest of us... 

The issue pertinent to the collectibles community is how these books were labeled and graded by CGC, and how they will deal with similar items in the future, so as we know what to expect.  It's just that simple.  The rest is just distraction.

I think "bootleg" is appropriate. Typically a bootleg in the music industry will be a legitimate performance by an artist, but the edition being issued is not approved by their recording company. That's essentially what's going on by pretending that these Black Flag monstrosities are legitimate "editions"

[kav]

On 8/20/2022 at 8:23 PM, 1950's war comics said:

drek is not even 1/10th a strong enough word for it

the franklin mint of comic collectibles.

[southern cross]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:11 PM, kav said:

the franklin mint of comic collectibles.

So are you saying my Franklin mint ceramic plate collection is only a dust collector?

Edited August 22, 2022 by southern cross
Typo

[kav]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:20 PM, southern cross said:

So are you saying my Franklin mint ceramic plate collection is only a dust collector?

not if you have the princess Di one

[TTony]

[southern cross]

[jcjames]

 

If only Marvel had released the original UF4 with the polybag stapled to the cover rather than sealed with that seam down the middle, it could have been ignored by CGC and all those copies that failed to get 9.8 due to the polybag seam bc impression might have come back with 9.9s or 10s... with the extra staples.

 

 

 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, jcjames said:

 

If only Marvel had released the original UF4 with the polybag stapled to the cover rather than sealed with that seam down the middle, it could have been ignored by CGC and all those copies that failed to get 9.8 due to the polybag seam bc impression might have come back with 9.9s or 10s... with the extra staples.

 

 

 

Considering Bad Idea's all-acetate comic, and the fact that you can print on polybags, makes me think it won't be too long before we see a comic that's entirely printed on the plastic polybag material. Ideally such a book would also be enclosed in such a bag, and attached to the bag, so you effectively couldn't open the comic without severely damaging the comic.