A plea for professionalism 4 4

[Dr. Balls]

Two routes to go on that Joe:

1. It never sells because no one even looking at it would pay a 9.6 price or

2. It sells to someone with Mr. Magoo-level eyesight and when they finally see it in-hand, they are unable to return it due to seller policy.

In any case, CGC wins, everyone else loses.

[shadroch]

How long until consigners stop accepting every CGC book at their  grades, especially ones who take responsibility for their returns?

[Math Teacher]

On 9/27/2022 at 10:43 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Doing things half-assed is an epidemic.  If one bothers to look, you'll see it everywhere.  Minimal effort, just good enough, mail it in.

"But I was using my whole posterior." Replace posterior with the appropriate word, as said by Homer Simpson.

I agree with @MattTheDuck. People just don't care about doing a job right anymore. If the supervisor lets this type of thing slide, s/he is as guilty as the employee.

Look, I want to get my books back quickly also, but if errors are happening due to the emphasis on speed, I would prefer to wait. All of the slabs that I have are in my personal collection. If it takes an extra four weeks/months to get my books back, I probably wouldn't like it, but it would be worth it if I knew the grade was going to be accurate. I can understand how others would feel differently, such as flippers of "hot" modern books. These people need to get their books back quickly, because if they take too long to be returned, it will likely decrease the profit that they are hoping for.

I think that this saying from my Dad, whom I know did not originate it, should be emphasized to all new employees. "If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?"

Edited September 28, 2022 by Math Teacher

[kimik]

It is not just the grading that could be the issue (although it likely is in this case). I have had submissions where the wrong books ended up with the wrong label (most noticeable was Punisher LS #1 Canadian newsstand variant in VF being put in a regular 9.6 labelled slab, while the direct edition Punisher LS #1 that I had at NM- going in was in the 8.0 Canadian Edition labelled slab). CGC is usually fast at fixing those issues if you contact them.

 

[Upgrayedd2]

On 9/27/2022 at 8:40 PM, Robert Doggett said:

CGC/Blackstone,

Please return back to your days of integrity.  I am so tired of seeing grades all over the map that shouldn't belong to the books that are encapsulated in the same case.  I have two examples, both within the last few months to show the lack of attention, professionalism and management needed to run a successful company.  I realize CGC must have hired a LOT of unskilled graders to push out the moderns at record speed.  Hence the 20 day turnaround times.  I get it, you want your customers to get their books back quickly.  As a customer (I can't speak for everyone, mind you),I want quality over quantity every time.  If you speed up the process without jeopardizing the accuracy of the grading, I think the mass majority would be all in for that.

I realize that some people are going to call me whiner, cryer, spoiled brat for not getting the grade I wanted.  Life isn't fair and all that jazz, but I discount those comments because those will most likely be the CGC fanboys, the ones that will defend CGC tooth and nail.  I'm tired of the inaccurate grading and the laziness of the staff to perform some sort of quality control.  Books graded 9.4 and below should have some kind of grader notes to identify issues with books.  Keeping in mind that 9.8 is not a perfect book and there is room for a slight flaw here and there.

Grades have been harsh on most books lately.  I took a big hit on my Moon Knight run because of strict grading.  I didn't complain, just kind of rolled with the punches.  I probably lost a grand on them due to the uncalled for low grades but I live and learn daily.  It's a part of life.

The first book I wanted to talk about is a Marvel Team-Up I submitted that was flawless.  Bright colors, sharp corners, perfectly flat, not a spine tick in it anywhere.  I am thinking about sending it back in to get it regraded because I believe it deserves a 9.8.  Because of this, I am not stating an issue number or posting pics of it.  

The second is Warlock 19.  Spine ticks pretty consistent down the spine of the book with several color breaks along the way.  The bottom left corner is blunted.  I question how this book gets by CGC's quality control.

 

 

And lastly, this GI Joe.  I have been contacted by CGC about this book to be resubmitted free of charge and graded properly.  Since it is not my book, all I could do was contact the owner and they refused to resubmit it due to principal.  

 

Neither one of these books that are pictured should have left CGC as they were.  This is a gross failure on many people's part and for them to get by everyone is shameful!  So some books get graded harshly, others unexplainably soft.  For me, it's a spoon shoot as to what grade I'm going to get.  It's making me shy away from grading for the time being.  I can grade better than the employees they have doing this at the moment.  Why pay for THIS service?  

I just want CGC to recognize the books that are leaving their offices and possibly have a senior grader skim over the books that the untrained grader has attempted to grade.  This should not ever happen.

Stepping down from my soapbox.

 

 

Yes and yes and yes to Grader Notes for anything below 9.8. 

[Upgrayedd2]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:45 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Two routes to go on that Joe:

1. It never sells because no one even looking at it would pay a 9.6 price or

2. It sells to someone with Mr. Magoo-level eyesight and when they finally see it in-hand, they are unable to return it due to seller policy.

In any case, CGC wins, everyone else loses.

3. And another 9.6 is added to the registry 

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/28/2022 at 9:18 AM, Math Teacher said:

I think that this saying from my Dad, whom I know did not originate it, should be emphasized to all new employees. "If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?"

My old boss (at an ad agency, where we were always under deadlines) used to get pissed when a mistake would happen, and he'd exclaim sarcastically: "There's always time to do it twice!"

[Robert Doggett]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:37 AM, MAR1979 said:

  

At a perceived slightly below FMV price on some social media platform w/blurry cell phone pics, with copy that states "It's a Newsstand Baby" - only accepting a non-refundable payment method it will sell to some "buy the label" person. Never underestimate the vast supply of both rubes and unethical comic book sellers.

Trust me, the owner doesn’t need money and, believe it or not, is a pretty nice guy.  He hasn’t raised any red flags with me.  I don’t think he’d stoop to that level.  I understand people do think like that, though.  

[namisgr]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:38 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Yikes...that Warlock book is def high but that GI JOE is another level of bad

I bet there's unanimity on this.

It makes me suspect that, rather than the comic being graded sloppily, it was encapsulated and labeled sloppily, and was either sealed with the wrong grade on the label, or mixed up/switched out for another copy that was truly high grade.

One wonders if there might not be shenanigans going on with the encapsulation/labeling crew.  We've seen multiple examples of these massive mis-grades lately - are the high grades being substituted by lower grade examples in an unscrupulous practice, like PGX was caught doing years ago?  I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but think the company should certainly look into the possibility.  What other plausible explanation is there for slabs leaving the CGC facility with 9.6 and 9.8 labels encapsulated with comics plainly in the VF- to VF/NM grade range?

Edited September 28, 2022 by namisgr

[shadroch]

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean there isn't a balrog in the woodpile.  I suspect there are shenanigans going on, but is it a rogue operator, has an organized crew infiltrated the sanctum under the guise of new employees, or are the new employees simply not doing their jobs. It's certainly not the CGC of even ten years ago. I need a certain trust before I send someone books and CGC has lost that trust. 

[Artboy99]

On 9/27/2022 at 8:56 PM, MAR1979 said:

owner and they refused to resubmit it due to principal.

Please explain what that principal is?  The only one I can think of they lack morals and ethics and intend on selling it around FMV for a 9.6 newsstand via venue in which no returns are accepted. 

But yeah I agree CGC Q/C is pretty much non-existent and as long as they inundated with business that will not change.  Truly strong competition with associated perception is the only way things will change but sadly none exists.

 

 

wants to keep it to show people.

Reminds of when my Father received a check back from a utilities company for an over charge. The check was for 1 cent! He kept it and framed it and hung it in his garage, and when the friendly neighbors came over for a beer they always had a good laugh over it.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:47 PM, Artboy99 said:

wants to keep it to show people.

Reminds of when my Father received a check back from a utilities company for an over charge. The check was for 1 cent! He kept it and framed it and hung it in his garage, and when the friendly neighbors came over for a beer they always had a good laugh over it.

I received a car insurance refund for $0.01 in the past 2 years... I should have kept it!

Spoiler

I also received one for $0.05, from the same company.

 

[shadroch]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:47 PM, Artboy99 said:

wants to keep it to show people.

Reminds of when my Father received a check back from a utilities company for an over charge. The check was for 1 cent! He kept it and framed it and hung it in his garage, and when the friendly neighbors came over for a beer they always had a good laugh over it.

I have two one cent checks.  One from All State, and one from Discover.  I keep them around for a goof. 

[Robert Doggett]

On 9/28/2022 at 3:34 PM, namisgr said:

I bet there's unanimity on this.

It makes me suspect that, rather than the comic being graded sloppily, it was encapsulated and labeled sloppily, and was either sealed with the wrong grade on the label, or mixed up/switched out for another copy that was truly high grade.

One wonders if there might not be shenanigans going on with the encapsulation/labeling crew.  We've seen multiple examples of these massive mis-grades lately - are the high grades being substituted by lower grade examples in an unscrupulous practice, like PGX was caught doing years ago?  I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but think the company should certainly look into the possibility.  What other plausible explanation is there for slabs leaving the CGC facility with 9.6 and 9.8 labels encapsulated with comics plainly in the VF- to VF/NM grade range?

The fact is that this is happening, regardless.  You're right, there could be someone swapping out books, but GI Joe?  I can see a key book but...   Upper management should be on the floor observing what is going on with the books or put a "spy" in the works (at encapsulating) like "Undercover Boss" to see when or where this is taking place?  Is it the graders?  If so, the encapsulating team should have the power to turn the book into their manager for an investigation.  Find out who's responsible for it and talk to that person.  Two talks and you're fired.  'Nuf said!

[Robert Doggett]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:37 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You have a lot of valid concerns, but this is a "no" from me dawg.

If a book is getting graded, why shouldn't CGC be held accountable and list the reasons the book got the grade it got.  I respect your opinion, but I believe it's the minority.  

The notes should be put in the data base so 1) the senior grader will see what the unskilled grader found and 2) to put in the grader notes online.

Otherwise, you get a specific grade with no reasoning behind it and people left scratching their heads as to how a book got the grade.  Grader notes diffuse a lot of anguish when something comes back unexpectedly low.  Something inside the book could have prevented the higher grade but without the grader notes, nobody will ever know.  Otherwise, what's preventing them from slapping a grade on a book and moving on to the next just to move the process along quicker?  Grader notes will indicate that someone took the time to at least look at the book.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Robert Doggett

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:31 AM, Robert Doggett said:

If a book is getting graded, why shouldn't CGC be held accountable and list the reasons the book got the grade it got.  I respect your opinion, but I believe it's the minority.  

The notes should be put in the data base so 1) the senior grader will see what the unskilled grader found and 2) to put in the grader notes online.

Otherwise, you get a specific grade with no reasoning behind it and people left scratching their heads as to how a book got the grade.  Grader notes diffuse a lot of anguish when something comes back unexpectedly low.  Something inside the book could have prevented the higher grade but without the grader notes, nobody will ever know.

I'm not in the minority, but, here's the why: Consumers are not paying CGC to teach them how to grade.

Grader notes have never been all-encompassing, and they shouldn't be.

Good. That's why CGC exists, to grade comic books when the consumer doesn't know how to grade, to detect restoration when the consumer doesn't know how to detect, etc.

[Robert Doggett]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:33 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm not in the minority, but, here's the why: Consumers are not paying CGC to teach them how to grade.

Grader notes have never been all-encompassing, and they shouldn't be.

Good. That's why CGC exists, to grade comic books when the consumer doesn't know how to grade, to detect restoration when the consumer doesn't know how to detect, etc.

So you're saying since those two books were graded 9.6, that's what they are?  Because "that's why CGC exists, to grade comic books when the consumer doesn't know how to grade"?  This is getting more and more common coming from CGC.  These books came from one customer over the span of a couple of months.  One person, not all of CGC submissions.  Wouldn't you like to see the grader notes on these two books?  I sure as hell would!

I'm not going to argue the point with you.  I am going to agree to disagree with you on this.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:44 AM, Robert Doggett said:

So you're saying since those two books were graded 9.6, that's what they are?  Because "that's why CGC exists, to grade comic books when the consumer doesn't know how to grade"?  This is getting more and more common coming from CGC.  These books came from one customer over the span of a couple of months.  One person, not all of CGC submissions.  Wouldn't you like to see the grader notes on these two books?  I sure as hell would!

I'm not going to argue the point with you.  I am going to agree to disagree with you on this.  

Unless there was some sort of mix-up, that's what CGC tells us their opinion on the grade is. I don't want the graders to waste their time penning notes on anything NM, as I think anyone who knows how to grade in the slightest would be able to understand how/why CGC came to their conclusion (again, unless there's a mix-up).

Agreeing to disagree is fine with me.

[Tony S]

On 9/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Unless there was some sort of mix-up, that's what CGC tells us their opinion on the grade is. I don't want the graders to waste their time penning notes on anything NM, as I think anyone who knows how to grade in the slightest would be able to understand how/why CGC came to their conclusion (again, unless there's a mix-up).

Agreeing to disagree is fine with me.

Count me among the group that believes grading notes are largely useless. I've been sending in books to CGC since the beginning - and over the years have come to the opinion people see them as FAR more useful than they really are. Perhaps the one thing collectors/CGC customers need to understand is this:  The grading notes are not nor ever have been an exhaustive  list of every single defect. Instead they represent simply what the graders took the time to write down. I've seen countless examples of books that the reason it graded 8.0 is  small color breaking corner crease - and that's not even in the notes. Instead the notes are "light spine stresses" or "light bends to cover". Which have practically become the cut and paste of "it's not NM and and I have to give a reason why so here you go." 

The only grading notes that are useful are the ones that mention defects you can no longer see as a result of the book being encapsulated. That way you don't break a book out to regrade only to discover a light stain on the front cover only visible from the inside of the cover. 

The G.I. Joe is most likely a mistake. It is so far off that the grade was probably intended for a different copy and it just got the wrong label. It's why CGC wants the book back to regrade.  The Strange Tales more likely a reflection of really inconsistent grading right now.  For TAT's to have improved like they have on Moderns and Economy if fast tracked, either there a LOT of new graders or people are being pushed to grade much faster. Maybe both.  What is...ironic.... to me is that IMHO CGC is way, way strict on  NM and better grades. I have 9.4's from a decade ago that don't look as nice - to me anyway - as 8.5's and 9.0's I have been seeing the last six months.  You are a new grader. You want a reputation of being too loose or too strict?  So the occasional book that comes through noticeably over graded stands out. 

Agreeing to disagree is cool with me as well  

Edited September 29, 2022 by Tony S

[Robert Doggett]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:44 AM, Zoinks said:

Because when they first opened they said "this is the way we're doing it and if you don't like it, don't use us". From Day One they never promised graders' notes and they've stuck by it. Graders' notes are a courtesy.

From day one, they probably promised integrity in the system they put together but I see that fell by the wayside as well.  

Do you and Cap work for CGC as graders?  Why would you be so adamant not to get grader notes on books you submit?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Robert Doggett