Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1962) Jack Kirby creates the Marvel Universe! 4 4

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

For December, Marvel would release 12 titles to the newsstand, more than the rumored 8 title restriction. They now have 133 in 12 months (11.08 a month). A full year of the 'Myth of Only 8' proven to be false. 

 

December 3, 1962

Journey Into Mystery #89

Kathy #21 with Stan Goldberg

Modeling with Millie #21 - with Stan Goldberg

Tales to Astonish #41

Two Gun Kid #62

 

December 10, 1962

Amazing Spider-man #1

Fantastic Four #12 with Jack Kirby

Kid Colt Outlaw #109

Millie the Model  #113 - with Stan Goldberg

Patsy Walker #105 - with Al Hartley

Strange Tales #106

Tales of Suspense #39

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Journey Into Mystery #89 - Jack Kirby does the cover... and pencils a 13 page story inside, all inked by D. Ayers. 

Is this a Kirby story or a Lieber story? The first give away is gangsters, a common Kirby villain, but most definitely the dialogue has been tampered with...as we can see some changes even on the printed version.

And the cover is generic... a great cover, but...

Edited January 31, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Journey Into Mystery #89 - I can't find an online version of Lee and Ditko's 5 page 'When the Switch is Pulled..." (which would wait 57 years to be reprinted), but here is a Sol Brodsky penciled 5 page story from a Stan Lee plot and Larry Lieber -script that also appeared in this issue... this is the reprinted version from Where Monsters Dwell #10, but I doubt they improved the story any. 

[Zonker]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:01 PM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Journey Into Mystery #89 - Jack Kirby does the cover... and pencils a 13 page story inside, all inked by D. Ayers. 

Is this a Kirby story or a Lieber story? The first give away is gangsters, a common Kirby villain, but most definitely the dialogue has been tampered with...as we can see some changes even on the printed version.

And the cover is generic... a great cover, but...

 

It's not that great a story, is it?  The secret identity shenanigans at the beginning, the introduction of Thor's super-breath and super-ventriloquism (did he ever use those powers again?), and Jane daydreaming about domestic life with hubby Thor, cutting his hair, ironing his cape, "polishing his hammer!"  Even the conclusion with the thug done in by his own substandard steel seems like a generic "how ironic!" comic book ending.  Overall, I don't find this one much better than most of the other stories published under the Larry Lieber byline-- with or without Jack's involvement. 

This one-- along with the introduction of Paste Pot Pete in Strange Tales-- doesn't really support the idea that we know Jack must have written it, because it is so much better than what Larry did without Jack.  

[Prince Namor]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:40 PM, Zonker said:

It's not that great a story, is it?  The secret identity shenanigans at the beginning, the introduction of Thor's super-breath and super-ventriloquism (did he ever use those powers again?), and Jane daydreaming about domestic life with hubby Thor, cutting his hair, ironing his cape, "polishing his hammer!"  Even the conclusion with the thug done in by his own substandard steel seems like a generic "how ironic!" comic book ending.  Overall, I don't find this one much better than most of the other stories published under the Larry Lieber byline-- with or without Jack's involvement. 

Last issues Loki return story, as well as 'Prisoner of the Reds' and 'On the Trail of the Tomorrow Man' are all superior to this. 

On 1/31/2023 at 7:40 PM, Zonker said:

This one-- along with the introduction of Paste Pot Pete in Strange Tales-- doesn't really support the idea that we know Jack must have written it, because it is so much better than what Larry did without Jack.  

Well... besides the obviously silly name for the character - the Paste Pot Pete story is a perfect example of Kirby's style, storytelling and dialogue. There's nothing wrong with that story, and in fact we can see in the original art that Kirby wrote the dialogue in.

THIS... is the first story where his dialogue is NOT easily visible if it's there at all. Everything about this issue, from the generic cover to retelling of the origin to the average storyline tells me Kirby had already quit Thor and only did this as a last minute favor to Stan. 

Larry HAD to write more of the dialogue than normally, and Kirby wanted it that way. We'd see exactly how good of a storyteller Brother Lieber is in the next two issues... with no Kirby plot, story, and dialogue at ALL to lead the way. 

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales to Astonish #41 - Oh. My. God. 

I guess I hadn't done ENOUGH research... Larry Lieber minus Jack Kirby starts right here for us, and... the results are pretty noticeable. Zonker, if you tell me you can't notice the difference here, I'm never talking to you again! 

Kirby does the cover (of all the silly cover changes Stan ever made, how'd he let THIS one pass?), inked by D. Ayers, but Don Heck does the interiors, and... inks his own work, and... well, the art is certainly better than the story or the dialogue...

Edited February 1, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales to Astonish #41 - Oh. My. God. 

And you didn't like Paste Pot Pete!!

"Tyrants always Lose, No Matter What their weapon!" 

The Window Washer who betrayed the World!

They have Gold in another dimension?

Confidence!

LOL

Oh sure... that makes sense.

Reformed???

Edited February 1, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales to Astonish #41 - But Larry wasn't done! he also scripted (from Stan's 'plot') this story, with art by Joe Sinnott. 

I can honestly say, I would've never thought of this story myself. 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales to Astonish #41 - Stan Lee and Steve Ditko also had a story in this issue, finally using the credit boxes. Of course, it's misleading - Stan didn't write scripts. It also would go 50 years without being reprinted...

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

The first week of December didn't exactly blow the doors off, but Kathy and the rechristened Modeling with Millie both reached their 21st issues...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Two Gun Kid #62 - One area where Kirby was willing to still work was on Westerns where he had no choice but to let Stan put a credit box claiming to have written a -script. Kirby would do the cover and TWO stories in this issue, all inked by D. Ayers.

Story ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Two Gun Kid #62 - One area where Kirby was willing to still work was on Westerns where he had no choice but to let Stan put a credit box claiming to have written a -script. Kirby would do the cover and TWO stories in this issue, all inked by D. Ayers.

Ayers had to add a 'Inked by Ayers' box!!!

Story TWO:

[Zonker]

Quote

Tales to Astonish #41 - Oh. My. God. 

 

The Window Washer who betrayed the World!

Yeah, this one isn't very good, either.

[Prince Namor]

The numbers are coming in for 1962 and Marvel is UP 1 million copies sold from 1961 (1,040,000)

That is actually slower growth than they saw from 1960 to 1961 (2.6 million copies up.)

 

Marvel 1962 Sales (Number of copies): 19,740,000 (up 1,040,000)

These titles are verified through Statement of Publication numbers (* are ones verified by Comichron.com). I've added their total copies sold to accumulate 62% of the total sales. I then guesstimated on the one's we don't have numbers for to sort of reverse engineer Fantastic Four sales numbers.

 

Patsy Walker #106                149,072 (98-103)  6 issues - 894,432 total copies sold (?)

Kid Colt Outlaw #110             145,344  (103-107) 6 issues - 872,064 total copies sold (Down 7,533 per issue)

Modleing with Millie*             143,476  (16-21) 6 issues - 860,856 total copies sold (Down 24,794 per issue)

Patsy & Hedy*                         139,855  (81-86) 6 issues - 839,130 total copies sold (?)

Tales to Astonish #42          139,167   (28-38) 12 issues - 1,670,004 total copies sold (Down 45,728 per issue)

Strange Tales #107               136,637 (93-103) 12 issues - 1,639,644 total copies sold (Down 54,624 per issue)

Love Romances #103           135,301 (97-102) 6 issues - 811,806 total copies sold (?)

Journey Into Mystery #90  132,113  (76-86) 12 issues - 1,585,356 total copies sold (Down 49,977 per issue)

Rawhide Kid #33                  131,183  (26-31) 6 issues - 787,098 total copies sold (Down 18,979 per issue)

Gunsmoke Western*            126,475 (69-74) 6 issues - 758,850 total copies sold (Down 20,755 per issue)

Tales of Suspense #40        126,140  (26-36) 12 issues - 1,513,680 total copies sold (Down 58,495 per issue)

Total from Verified Sales: 12,232,920 (62% of 19,740,000)

*From Comichron.com

 

These are the titles I guesstimated numbers from. The Stan Lee 'dumb blonde' titles I used what was from like-title numbers above - I figured the Hulk and Amazing Adult Fantasy had to have the lesser numbers, as they were being canceled (same with Linda Carter and Teen-Age Romance) - AmFantasy 15 and ASM #1 I gave a good showing - The Annuals I gave a moderate up total to - and Two Gun Kid I put in the Western range, also from above. I added those total copies up and what I was left with is what the Fantastic Four numbers became - which seem within range, especially from when they actually started to show numbers around 1966. It would be in that 329,000 to 340,000 each year for the rest of the 60's. 

ALSO - the Statement of Publication numbers DO NOT in some instances cover the entire year - example, Kid Colt Outlaw was for issues #103-107, which is only 5 issues. It had 6 during the year, so I multiplied by 6 to cover the entire year. I did this because Marvel Sales numbers cover the ENTIRE year. Its an average, so it should be pretty close to correct.

 

Millie the Model (108-113)    6 issues (est. 140,000 per issue) - 840,000 total copies sold

Kathy (16-21)                         6 issues (est. 140,000per issue) - 840,000 total copies sold

Fantastic Four (4-12)            9 issues (est. 326,897per issue) - 2,942,080 total copies sold

The Incredible Hulk (1-5)      5 issues (est. 110,000per issue) - 550,000 total copies sold

Amz Adult Fantasy (11-14)     4 issues (est. 110,000per issue) - 440,000 total copies sold

Amazing Fantasy 15              1 issues (est. 250,000per issue) - 250,000 total copies sold

Amazing Spider-man (1)       1 issues (est. 250,000per issue) - 250,000 total copies sold

Linda Carter (5-9)                 5 issues (est. 110,000per issue) - 550,000 total copies sold

Teen-Age Romance (86)      1 issues (est. 110,000per issue) - 110,000 total copies sold

Millie the Model Annual (1)   1 issues (est. 180,000per issue) - 180,000 total copies sold

Strange Tales Annual (1)      1 issues (est. 180,000per issue) - 180,000 total copies sold

Two Gun Kid (60-62).           3 issues (est. 125,000per issue) - 375,000 total copies sold

 

The interesting thing about these numbers is that... they're almost completely DOWN from 1961, other than the Fantastic Four. The Kirby Monster books took a real beating, dropping hard - so hard that Patsy Walker would show up as Marvel's best selling book - well, of what they SHOWED - I'm sure FF was their best seller by far.

It shows us that Marvel was NOT an immediate hit - in the sales sense - comic fandom, obviously was discovering it and enjoying it - but it wasn't enough to save Amazing Adult Fantasy and the Incredible Hulk. Those numbers also include 8 issues of the Ant-Man in Tales to Astonish (not including his prequel), - 3 issues of the Torch in Strange Tales - and 4 issues of Thor in Journey Into Mystery - all three titles falling hard in avg monthly numbers sold (for the YEAR) - but the one title WITHOUT a superhero is Tales of Suspense and its numbers fall the hardest - almost 60,000 copies per issue. Which tells us that maybe those superheroes raised the average numbers a bit on the other 3.

Tales of Suspense of course is about to get its OWN superhero...

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales of Suspense #39 - 

Don Heck: “[Stan] just called me up and told me he was going to have this character, Iron Man, and he said ‘Tony Stark,’ and the way he wound up where he was over in I guess it would be considered Vietnam. And he’d pitch this synopsis over the phone. We didn’t actually sit down and work out the characters... I knew what the costume looked like because I got the cover in the mail.”

June 9, 1990: Don Heck interviewed by Will Murray

 

How much input does Kirby have in the creation of Iron Man? Let's consider the story first. Remember, in Adventure Comics #255, he has a Green Arrow story and in it 1. Green Arrow and Speedy are traveling to Southeast Asia - so is Tony Stark  2. They are captured by an Asian military commander as is Tony Stark. 3. In both stories the hero is recognized as an inventive genius and 4. his life is threatened if he does not agree to assist the bad guys in making weapons to attack the United States. 5. In both stories they have to use "scrap" materials in the construction of weapons and 6. in the end, of course, the hero turns the weapon he has created, against his captors. 

Remember... Stan worked with synopsis'... sometimes with only minor details...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales of Suspense #39 - Jack Kirby would do the cover, inked by Don Heck, and we know it was done before the story was because...

Don Heck: “[Stan] just called me up and told me he was going to have this character, Iron Man, and he said ‘Tony Stark,’ and the way he wound up where he was over in I guess it would be considered Vietnam. And he’d pitch this synopsis over the phone. We didn’t actually sit down and work out the characters... I knew what the costume looked like because I got the cover in the mail.”

June 9, 1990: Don Heck interviewed by Will Murray

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales of Suspense #39 - Plot by Stan, -script by Larry Lieber with art by Don Heck.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales of Suspense #39 - Even though there are no credits listed, we're told that this next story is a Stan Lee plot (What? Stan forgot to give himself credit???), Larry Lieber -script and Gene Colan art. After reading it, yes, I believe it is a Lieber and Lieber story. LOL. 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1962

Tales of Suspense #39 - Stan Lee and Steve Ditko also had a story in this issue, with a credit box. 

[Dr. Haydn]

Panel 1: Either Stan or letterer extraordinaire Art Simek should have noted the subtle difference between "Owww! Don't stop! Halllp!" and what was presumably meant: "Owww! Don't! Stop! Halllp!"--unless Cal Morgan was a glutton for punishment!