What's better: grade or page quality? 2 2

[thewarning]

Hypothetical. There's a key issue CGC slabbed 8.0 w/ white pages let's say for $250 or for $300 an 8.5 off-white to white. What is more desirable and why?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:36 PM, thewarning said:

What is more desirable and why?

Completely subjective, though I suspect that the market says, 'grade is more desirable'. For me, all things being equal, I prefer better PQ in this scenario.

[namisgr]

Both are better, of course.  It's all about eye appeal, and so structural condition is a huge component, but other factors including cover registration, cover paper preservation/tanning, cover ink preservation, staple placement, interior page quality, and other criteria that don't factor into structural grade also make meaningful contributions.

As for your hypothetical, it would depend for me on their overall eye appeal and quality of preservation, along with the magnitude of the price differential.  I have sometimes spent less for a white paged VF issue than a more expensive ow/w VF+ example, and other times favored the latter book.

Edited January 3, 2023 by namisgr

[KCOComics]

In general, in terms of value, grade will drive a premium.  

An 8.5 OW will generally sell for more than an 8.0 W. 

That said, there are always nuances to the discussion. Some collectors really focus on PQ.  Presentation of the book is big. 

If it's a more common book, it made worth holding out for an 8.5 W pager. 

[rexinnih]

Pretty much can come down to personal preference. For me, like stated, the market prefers grade and so do I but may change some day. 

[jcjames]

Old saying around here, buy the book not the grade (that includes PQ). 

Eye-appeal is key. There are 8.5s that present worse than 8.0s. There are WP that present worse than OWW. 

It's all in the presentation - what you CAN see in the book, not necessarily what you can see in the label. 

YMMV. 

 

[newshane]

Grading page quality isn't exactly a science. 

[Telegan]

I think it's up to the individual, but for me, it will almost always be the grade simply because the book is slabbed.  Unless I plan on cracking it out of the case, I'll never see the pages, so whether it's white, off-white, cream, etc. wouldn't mean much to me.  To others, it matters.  The grade of the comic, or at least its general appearance, regardless of the grade would matter far more to me because that's what I can see and will be looking at since I'm more into comics for the cover art/nostalgia of the covers.

[Ryan.]

I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for white pages, particularly considering how inconsistent and often arbitrary CGC's page quality designations can be. A white pager can be cracked and resubmitted and come back off-white, and vice-versa. 

 

 

 

[Dick Pontoon]

On 1/4/2023 at 7:35 AM, Ryan. said:

I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for white pages, particularly considering how inconsistent and often arbitrary CGC's page quality designations can be. A white pager can be cracked and resubmitted and come back off-white, and vice-versa. 

 

 

 

This exactly, plus everything namisgr said.

*If* two books were fairly identical except for PQ a white pager *should* result in more $ as it would indicate a greater state of preservation and some people will automatically pay more, *but* (there's always a big but) since CGC's designations vary so much, unless I could see the pages myself it would come down to eye appeal and price for me.

[Grendel72]

A 8.5 is meant to indicate that based on all criteria used to grade a book , is deemed better than a 8.0 even with white pages. Means that a book even with white pages could not bump up to a 8.5 cause it must have had other defects. 

So only 3 things matter , what the book is, the price difference and which quality counts more to a collector.  To me the grade matters more but what the grade is, matters. If it's a 9.8 with off- white pages vs 9.6 with white pages , I am taking the 9.8. If ti's a 5.0 off-white vs 4.5 white, I may consider the 4.5 cos I know there is a market out there for white pages. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:35 AM, Ryan. said:

I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for white pages, particularly considering how inconsistent and often arbitrary CGC's page quality designations can be. A white pager can be cracked and resubmitted and come back off-white, and vice-versa.

I'm in this group - for me, White or OW is practically the same value-wise. Perhaps OW will turn yellow 4-5 years before the White does, but given proper storage for a slabbed book, that could be 80 years from now and I'll be dead.

[namisgr]

On 1/4/2023 at 7:35 AM, Ryan. said:

I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for white pages, particularly considering how inconsistent and often arbitrary CGC's page quality designations can be. A white pager can be cracked and resubmitted and come back off-white, and vice-versa. 

 

And it never occurs that an 8.0 can be cracked and resubmitted and come back an 8.5 or even a 9.0.  Or a 7.5.  

The frequency with which the numerical grade varies makes it that much more amazing how much of a premium most buyers are willing to pay for an example of an issue with a higher number on the CGC label. [Me included]

Edited January 5, 2023 by namisgr

[MattTheDuck]

Also remember that once a book is in that slab, you're taking somebody's word for the page quality.  It's not possible for a buyer to say, "well, I don't think that's white pages" unless they buy the book and then crack it out.  Same with the grade - as noted above, if all the problems are interior (or even back cover) you can get a fantastic looking 8.0 or 8.5 inside a slab.

[jokiing]

I would also consider the age of the book. Newer books with OW may be a sign of storage in a poor environment (or the grader wearing tinted glasses) . With older books it's part of the natural aging process.

[Lord Nikon]

While grade vs page quality is a personal preference (and upvoting @jokiing's comment on page quality with new vs old books), I think the intended purpose for getting the book is important.

If I was going to get it for my personal collection, I'd go for the one that looks better, with my rationale being that because the slab is sealed, the page quality can't be observed.  Related to this, if the flaws are ones that could be easily pressed out, I'd go for the cheaper one and hope to take advantage of any in-house signing events where I could send it in and also get it pressed - with hopes of getting a grade bump in addition to the signature.

If I was buying to resell, I'd work out which one would be in higher demand and consider the cost of the book - figure out how much profit I could make with either the 8.0 or 8.5 and then buy the one with the better sale potential.

[LowGradeBronze]

Today's white pages are tomorrow's off white so I'd buy the best page quality. (Since today's off white are soon to be cream/tan!) It's all personal taste and you have a good variety of well reasoned argument in this thread! And it definitely depends on the reasons for buying in the first place.

[boston collectibles]

I'm gathering that according to CGC page Quality hits a book's grade pretty hard. I've seen two examples of a HOS #92 that were both 2.5's and one looks like its been through the ringer. pieces missing from the cover, abrasions. Just overall beat up book. But in has "Off-White" pages. The other is complete with multiple heavy stress lines on the spine, BUT Cream pages. You would think the complete book would grade higher, but it didn't.

[Axe Elf]

The page quality for any book encased in a slab should be "NA" since you'll never see them anyway.

[namisgr]

On 2/21/2023 at 10:49 AM, boston collectibles said:

I'm gathering that according to CGC page Quality hits a book's grade pretty hard. I've seen two examples of a HOS #92 that were both 2.5's and one looks like its been through the ringer. pieces missing from the cover, abrasions. Just overall beat up book. But in has "Off-White" pages. The other is complete with multiple heavy stress lines on the spine, BUT Cream pages. You would think the complete book would grade higher, but it didn't.

In grades that low, the only page quality that could impact the numerical grade would be 'brittle'.  Perhaps the seldom used 'tan'.

As to your examples of two books with the same grade but different eye appeal, go with your eyes.  Given that they were graded at different times and probably by different graders, and that one of the books may have interior problems no longer visible in the slab, it's a stretch to suggest that page quality might have had something to do with the respective grades.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by namisgr