Pedigree Designation 0

[DougC]

I have come with another shenanigans question about pedigree notations on CGC labels.

Background:

The Savannah Pedigree contained 40,000 books from the 1950's up until 2010.

In 2010/11 the Savannah Pedigree was recognized by CGC and noted on labels, most of these books came to market via Heritage. I have a number of posts back in 2012 complaining about ultra gatekeeping boomer stance that CGC would not recognize any book as part of any pedigree published after 1985 (cause the silver age was just yesterday and comics are pure and sacred!).

I was trying to break the online submission form into allowing me to select both a custom label and pedigree designation (it hasn't worked yet) and noticed that there was no longer an issue with selecting the Savannah Pedigree for my X-men #1 (1991). Out of curiosity I looked through the pedigree section and FAQ portion to find that all reference to this previous "rule" has been removed from the website verbiage.

Question:

Can I submit my copy of X-Men #1 (1991) to CGC for the (ugly) Pedigree label?

• I have all the relevant Heritage information confirming its origin.

[NickiO CS]

Hello @DougC, 

Thank you for your question. With copies of the appropriate documentation, you should be able to submit your book for consideration for the pedigree label. I was not able to locate any documentation that a book published in 1991 would not be eligible. The final determination is at the discretion of the grading team.

If you have any other questions, please let us know. 

[DougC]

This is awesome to hear @NickiO CS and I hope it is true.... but for reference when I asked back in 2012 this was the response:

In 2018 it was noted that exceptions would be made for modern "keys" and an example of Batman Adventures #12 (0311467003) from 1993 (graded 2017) was pictured. I just want to make sure that all potential books fall under this new guidance, cause i'm about to dump a lot of money on grading/reholdering if I can get a solid enough answer.

[KaileeS CS]

Hi @DougC, my supervisor checked on this for you, and they were able to determine this book should receive the pedigree label. Please kindly make sure to send *copies* of any proof you have from heritage to confirm the pedigree (kindly do not send the original paperwork please). Thank you!

[DougC]

Thank you for the response @KaileeS CS your answer was worded very specifically which wasn't the spirit of the question, so allow me to rephrase.

 

Will CGC acknowledge the pedigree designation on ALL post 1985 books (not just "keys")?

 

Hopefully I am just reading to much into the response and being pedantic cause I own a couple hundred modern pedigree books from both the Savannah, John G. Fantucchio, and Twin Cities pedigrees.

 

[CrystalM CS]

Unfortunately, this would be decided on a case-by-case basis, and we cannot give you the blanket response that you are looking for. We would need documentation for the books to be reviewed before determining if they would qualify for a Pedigree label or not. 

[DougC]

@CrystalM CSthank you for the response. I guess I have a decision to make about testing the waters for a future multi-book submission.

[MAR1979]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:14 AM, DougC said:

Question:

Can I submit my copy of X-Men #1 (1991) to CGC for the (ugly) Pedigree label?

I like the classy look of the new Pedigree Labels 

[DougC]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:50 PM, MAR1979 said:

I like the classy look of the new Pedigree Labels 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by DougC

[DougC]

So this entire endeavor was a complete bust despite what was stated here. The #1 was not given the pedigree label (nor was the #4); I did receive an email from CS (via a grader) asking for more information on one of the books (#11) in addition to the HA Savannah Certificate. Outside of the grader that particular day just not feeling like recognizing the pedigree... is there a way to check if a reason was given for why none of them received it?

@NickiO CS@KaileeS CS@CrystalM CS

[DougC]

So I am to assume from the resounding silence that CS is hoping this just goes away despite what was previously stated?

 

understood.

[jnicholas1976]

Hello Everyone!

I just read that PBA Galleries has a designation from CGC. From the information I have at this time, it's called the DC Universe Collection. When will this be listed along with the other Pedigrees recognized by CGC?

The DC Universe Collection - PBA Galleries

 

[DougC]

Alright this is becoming very shady in business practices and I would appreciate an answer!

Even through I was told by customer services that some of the X-Men (1991) books would be eligible for the Savannah pedigree designation (the rest up to the graders) they were all returned without it and no one will answer me as to why. Now Doug Schmell just had a large number of very non-key common Marvel books graded from the Winnipeg pedigree some deep into the 90's with the help of CGC.

When I called in to CS over the phone I was told someone would return my call, this was a lie. I have not received an email reply asking why these books were not given the pedigree.

I was ready to let this go as lesson never to trust CGC but this is just ridiculous and leads me to believe that the sole reason was that I didn't give CGC enough business to be blessed with grace of the graders.

This own thread proves just how little CS cares about their previous statements or willingness to provide answers as it has been ignored since June 25th.

[jnicholas1976]

On 7/12/2023 at 6:18 PM, jnicholas1976 said:

Hello Everyone!

I just read that PBA Galleries has a designation from CGC. From the information I have at this time, it's called the DC Universe Collection. When will this be listed along with the other Pedigrees recognized by CGC?

The DC Universe Collection - PBA Galleries

 

Just read the answer on the landing page. Thanks!

Edited July 23, 2023 by jnicholas1976

[namisgr]

That's designated as a 'collection', not as a 'pedigree', and the company is careful to refer to their designation as one of 'provenance'.

I'm just the messenger on this particular example.  I don't have any idea why any specific year would be chosen as a cutoff after which there would be no 'pedigree' designation, beyond it being a gray area devoid of a firm and rational CGC policy.  It also wouldn't be surprising that a high volume submitter might receive preferential treatment in this regard, as history shows this happening as far back as the early days of the grading service and the 'Mile High II' designation for a mass of books that was a warehouse/storage locker find and not copies sold on the newsstand.

To me personally, it doesn't matter whether books from the modern era that tend to be so prevalent in ultra high grade get tagging as from pedigree collections with exceptional long runs of high grade books that are scarce and from older eras.  Perhaps they should stick to their originally stated policy of not giving consideration to anything published after 1985.

Edited July 23, 2023 by namisgr

[DougC]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:33 PM, DougC said:

Alright this is becoming very shady in business practices and I would appreciate an answer!

Even through I was told by customer services that some of the X-Men (1991) books would be eligible for the Savannah pedigree designation (the rest up to the graders) they were all returned without it and no one will answer me as to why. Now Doug Schmell just had a large number of very non-key common Marvel books graded from the Winnipeg pedigree some deep into the 90's with the help of CGC.

When I called in to CS over the phone I was told someone would return my call, this was a lie. I have not received an email reply asking why these books were not given the pedigree.

I was ready to let this go as lesson never to trust CGC but this is just ridiculous and leads me to believe that the sole reason was that I didn't give CGC enough business to be blessed with grace of the graders.

This own thread proves just how little CS cares about their previous statements or willingness to provide answers as it has been ignored since June 25th.

bumping this as it is being purposefully ignored by CS on all fronts (forums & email).

All of my books had the HA certificate and I provided additional information when asked by a rep over email. All books included were returned without the pedigree label, despite being told other wise. No one will even give me the time of day as to why.