DC Studios' SUPERMAN written & directed by James Gunn (2025) 3 3

[Bosco685]

On 2/3/2023 at 7:45 AM, bentbryan said:

Ha I voted ‘Trunks’ 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Can't wait to see this on HBO Max to see where it falls between Man of Steel (no chance this is better) and Superman Returns (which I think is very-mediocre).

[Boozad]

MoS was ridiculously good, I've lost count of how many times I've watched it. I don't see this being anywhere near as good, I'll still watch it though.

[Straw-Man]

saving the plane scene in returns pushes it over the top for me.

[TupennyConan]

On 2/2/2023 at 5:06 PM, Bosco685 said:

Ezra Miller? 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:20 PM, valiantman said:

This is automatically a reboot, correct?

Man of Steel has Clark becoming Superman around age 33, just after discovering his father's consciousness and Kryptonian heritage in the ship key.

If this movie is for him at age 25 (in Man of Steel), Clark wasn't Superman and wouldn't have known his Kryptonian heritage (other than he wasn't from Earth).

Interesting in that Christopher Reeve was only 25 when he first played Superman. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by The humble Watcher lurking

[WordSlinger1]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:55 AM, Boozad said:

MoS was ridiculously good, I've lost count of how many times I've watched it. I don't see this being anywhere near as good, I'll still watch it though.

I agree I loved MoS. Wish Cavill was sticking around but I am willing to give the new guy a chance. Just hope they go with someone relatively unknown. 

[jsilverjanet]

so the plan here is let's take a universe that was loved by smaller group of passionate people (compared to MCU) get rid of it, because in order to get MCU #'s we need to start again

but instead of focusing on the things people like (a list characters) or keep the people loved (Gal Gadot, Henry Cavill) let's dump all of it and focus on properties no one (general non comic book public) is aware of because nothing builds a universe like a bunch of no name heros/villians

got it

[jsilverjanet]

there was a way to make the existing foundation work, starting a new universe 15 years after iron man when MCU is already seeing diminishing returns on invested properties is a tremendous mistake

Amazon/Apple will be buying DC/WB 2 years into Gunns tenure

 

[jsilverjanet]

DC has taken it's comic approach to the movies. Just reboot it.

 

[Newkirk]

I personally like Superman's suit to have trunks.  It reminds me of silver age Superman, the Boyscout Superman.  The simple and role model we looked up to. 

But I also understand why people don't like it, somethings can look so clean in a comicbook or animated tv show and not so good when in live action. 

But I personally vote trunks 

[media_junkie]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:55 PM, jsilverjanet said:

so the plan here is let's take a universe that was loved by smaller group of passionate people (compared to MCU) get rid of it, because in order to get MCU #'s we need to start again

but instead of focusing on the things people like (a list characters) or keep the people loved (Gal Gadot, Henry Cavill) let's dump all of it and focus on properties no one (general non comic book public) is aware of because nothing builds a universe like a bunch of no name heros/villians

got it

Well not all of it, anything that Gunn brought into the DCU before he got the job, he is keeping from what I gather.  

Edited February 15, 2023 by media_junkie

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:41 PM, Newkirk said:

...somethings can look so clean in a comicbook or animated tv show and not so good when in live action.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:55 AM, jsilverjanet said:

nothing builds a universe like a bunch of no name heros/villians

Arguably, this is how the MCU built its universe, at least after the initial phase - the general movie-going public likely knew about Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk before their movies came out, but moving beyond the first couple of movies in the MCU, I'm guessing many didn't have as much of a clue about Black Widow, Hawkeye, Ant-Man, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Wanda and Vision, Thanos, Ultron, Kang, Loki, Doctor Strange etc.

DC has an outstanding stable of characters with potential, but the movies have largely continued to focus on the big 3 (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman). The idea that we haven't really had a live-action, cinematic Robin (at least since the 90s) is crazy, there's so much potential there - in the whole Bat-family really. They could do a proper Cassandra Cain (not the version from Birds of Prey), Barbara Gordon, Grayson, Tim Drake, Jason Todd, and the list goes on. Or imagine a good Teen Titans movie - tons of options to draw from. Or the Justice Society - not what we saw in Black Adam, but really building out characters like Mr. Terrific, Dr. Fate, Power Girl.

Gunn's Suicide Squad was a lot of fun, and Peacemaker was great - both with next to no A-list characters. I'm excited to see what he does with Booster Gold - that could have been a universe-resetting movie instead of the Flash movie we're getting, but either way, there are a lot of directions they can take a character like Booster, and he's not as weighed down by audience expectations compared to a Batman.

Since this is a Superman thread, there are a bunch of non-A-list characters to explore there too: John Henry Irons (Steel) and Natasha Irons, Hank Henshaw, Braniac, an actually good Lex Luthor (arguably an A-lister, but worth re-exploring), Superboy Prime, a more involved/fleshed out Lois and Jimmy, Maggie Sawyer.

Also, I vote trunks.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Jesse-Lee
Spelling

[trademarkcomics]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:25 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

Arguably, this is how the MCU built its universe, at least after the initial phase - the general movie-going public likely knew about Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk before their movies came out, but moving beyond the first couple of movies in the MCU, I'm guessing many didn't have as much of a clue about Black Widow, Hawkeye, Ant-Man, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Wanda and Vision, Thanos, Ultron, Kang, Loki, Doctor Strange etc.

 

I consider my wife the "general movie-going public" since she liked movies but didn't know anything about comics before we met. Everyone knows who the Hulk is. But she had no clue who Iron Man, Captain America and Thor were before I came along. Now, kids(mostly boys) who grew up in the 90s(as she did) and watched Marvel Action Hour-type cartoons(she obviously didn't) knew who they were. But, if you watched those 'toons, you might also be aware of Hawkeye(from Iron Man), Doctor Strange(He guested in most series, he even appeared in the 80s Spidey series I watched as a kid) and Scarlet Witch(from X-Men and Iron Man). But, I distinctly remember taking her to Iron Man and she couldn't believe she had never heard of him since she found him a fascinating character..."way cooler than the Hulk or Superman" I recall her saying.

My point is, I do agree you don't have to know these characters beforehand for them to hit the zeitgeist and become a breakout hit. And knowing them, even as a household name does not guarantee a hit. Movies are usually(not always) judged on their own merits, regardless of a familiarity with the characters. Trailers and hype are way more important. Superman is such a tough character for modern audiences to relate with. That's why making the movie a spectacle to draw them in should be paramount. Then you deliver a good story to bring them back. That's why MOS did better than Superman Returns, which tried and failed to sell a good story over making the film a grand spectacle(all while spending more on a film ever to that point...oops). MOS had it's own problems and every iteration of the Cavill Superman fell short in my eyes(except perhaps the Snyder-cut of Justice League). Gunn delivered with Guardians, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And, as someone mentioned before, Christopher Reeve was 25(even though he was playing 28 in the film---which is the age Superman is supposed to eternally be) and that didn't work out too badly...

 

And I'm Team Trunks as well...

Edited February 15, 2023 by trademarkcomics

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:25 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

DC has an outstanding stable of characters with potential, but the movies have largely continued to focus on the big 3 (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman). The idea that we haven't really had a live-action, cinematic Robin (at least since the 90s) is crazy, there's so much potential there - in the whole Bat-family really. They could do a proper Cassandra Cain (not the version from Birds of Prey), Barbara Gordon, Grayson, Tim Drake, Jason Todd, and the list goes on. Or imagine a good Teen Titans movie - tons of options to draw from. Or the Justice Society - not what we saw in Black Adam, but really building out characters like Mr. Terrific, Dr. Fate, Power Girl.

Gunn's Suicide Squad was a lot of fun, and Peacemaker was great - both with next to no A-list characters. I'm excited to see what he does with Booster Gold - that could have been a universe-resetting movie instead of the Flash movie we're getting, but either way, there are a lot of directions they can take a character like Booster, and he's not as weighed down by audience expectations compared to a Batman.

Since this is a Superman thread, there are a bunch of non-A-list characters to explore there too: John Henry Irons (Steel) and Natasha Irons, Hank Henshaw, Braniac, an actually good Lex Luthor (arguably an A-lister, but worth re-exploring), Superboy Prime, a more involved/fleshed out Lois and Jimmy, Maggie Sawyer.

Also, I vote trunks.

Robin is a child that Batman allows and even enables to fight crime in a place like real-world Chicago. Let's not pretend that's easy to write into a logical film narrative while not being completely ridiculous. Same goes for most of the Batfamily.

Why would the general audience pay to see D-list character stories when they can't/won't keep the characters that matter around? I won't be surprised when the next Superman movie makes half of Aquaman.

Edited February 15, 2023 by theCapraAegagrus

[Jesse-Lee]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:15 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Robin is a child that Batman allows and even enables to fight crime in a place like real-world Chicago. Let's not pretend that's easy to write into a logical film narrative while not being completely ridiculous. Same goes for most of the Batfamily.

Why would the general audience pay to see D-list character stories when they can't/won't keep the character that matter around?

It's no more ridiculous than a talking raccoon with a sentient tree as a best friend, or a teenager who gets bitten by a spider, gains super powers and ends up battling a God-like being with a fancy glove in outer space. You could easily have Damian as a teen along the lines of a Peter Parker, you could have an adult Nightwing, a college-aged Tim Drake, etc.

If you mean Superman/Batman/WW as the "characters that matter," I'd argue that we've had too much (and more importantly, too many) of those characters in too short a time. There's been one Iron Man in film for the past 15 years. In that same time, we've had 3 different Batmans or Batmen or however you want to say it. There's next to no cohesion.

There have been 18 DC movies in the past 15 years, and only about half of them share any characters in common, and those characters are mostly the big 3. There have been about 30 MCU movies in that time, in a shared universe and with a hugely varied roster of characters that build and expand that universe. It's something that fans can get invested in but casual viewers can still enjoy. Why would the general audience pay to see yet another Batman movie, when they're like, "wait, I thought Christian Bale was Batman, now it's Ben Affleck?" or "Is the Joker in this one? Oh, there he is, but that's not the same one from the Joker movie I liked..."

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:38 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

It's no more ridiculous than a talking raccoon with a sentient tree as a best friend, or a teenager who gets bitten by a spider, gains super powers and ends up battling a God-like being with a fancy glove in outer space. You could easily have Damian as a teen along the lines of a Peter Parker, you could have an adult Nightwing, a college-aged Tim Drake, etc.

If you mean Superman/Batman/WW as the "characters that matter," I'd argue that we've had too much (and more importantly, too many) of those characters in too short a time. There's been one Iron Man in film for the past 15 years. In that same time, we've had 3 different Batmans or Batmen or however you want to say it. There's next to no cohesion.

There have been 18 DC movies in the past 15 years, and only about half of them share any characters in common, and those characters are mostly the big 3. There have been about 30 MCU movies in that time, in a shared universe and with a hugely varied roster of characters that build and expand that universe. It's something that fans can get invested in but casual viewers can still enjoy. Why would the general audience pay to see yet another Batman movie, when they're like, "wait, I thought Christian Bale was Batman, now it's Ben Affleck?" or "Is the Joker in this one? Oh, there he is, but that's not the same one from the Joker movie I liked..."

Sure it is, because these examples are unfettered fantasy, while the other deals with a 'regular' human child.

Too much? We saw Superman in 3 films over the past 10 years, 2 of which he shared screen time. Wonder Woman? 4 movies in 10 years, pretty good, but audiences still want more of her (which is why we're getting a dumb prequel). We're just now getting The Flash. Aquaman has been a household name for only 5 years. Green Lantern? Still haven't seen the 10-year old show project come to life yet. None of these characters have been "too much" other than Batman, and that's not going away, because people flat-out love Batman.

15 years is an oddly arbitrary number to pull from. Part of the problem with your worldview is that you want to compare DC to Marvel, instead of just looking at the only products that matter in this conversation.

Edited February 15, 2023 by theCapraAegagrus

[Jesse-Lee]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:48 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Sure it is, because these examples are unfettered fantasy, while the other deals with a 'regular' human child.

It's all fantasy though, that's the point. Damian Wayne was raised as an assassin by a cult led by his basically immortal grandfather and his own assassin mother. It's not like he's some kid Bruce Wayne saw eating paste on an elementary school playground.

On 2/15/2023 at 12:48 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Too much? We saw Superman in 3 films over the past 10 years, 2 of which he shared screen time. Wonder Woman? 4 movies in 10 years, pretty good, but audiences still want more of her (which is why we're getting a dumb prequel). We're just now getting The Flash. Aquaman has been a household name for only 5 years. Green Lantern? Still haven't seen the 10-year old show project come to life yet. None of these characters have been "too much" other than Batman, and that's not going away, because people flat-out love Batman.

I'm not sure that Aquaman is a "household name," but yes, it's fair to say that DC has been most egregious with Batman (and I am one of those people who flat out love Batman).

On 2/15/2023 at 12:48 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

15 years is an oddly arbitrary number to pull from, to include movies that are irrelevant to the universe that started with MoS. Part of the problem with your worldview is that you want to compare DC to Marvel, instead of just looking at the only products that matter in this conversation.

I chose to look at it over 15 years because Iron Man came out in 2008, which was basically the starting foundation of the MCU. I think you have to compare it to Marvel in the sense that Marvel has been massively successful with its cinematic and TV universe and properties, where DC hasn't been as much. They're largely competing for the same consumer dollars - from a pure, hardcore fan-base perspective there will be Marvel and DC purists, but even in the larger fan base I'd guess that there are a lot of people like myself who will go see both Marvel and DC movies, so both of their products matter in that conversation.

But even taking Marvel out of the equation, I think the DC movies have been mostly underwhelming. I liked Joker, I liked the latest Batman movie, Gunn's Suicide Squad, and of course the Nolan Batman movies. The Snyderverse stuff didn't really do it for me. The first Wonder Woman was ok. I hated the Birds of Prey movie (and I was excited for that one) and Aquaman.

At the end of the day, as someone who loves DC comics over Marvel comics, I just want a DC cinematic universe that actually rivals the MCU.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Jesse-Lee
Spelling

[jsilverjanet]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:25 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

the general movie-going public likely knew about Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk

maybe the general public but this is the Avengers - top 3 team in the comic universe

it's a solid foundation moving forward