Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures! 3 3

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Tales of Suspense #43 - Plot: Stan Lee Script: R. Berns (Robert Bernstein) Art: Jack Kirby Inks: Don Heck Lettering: Art Simek

There are parts of this that Don Heck clearly redrew or changed...

[Prince Namor]

 

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Kirby also did the cover of Kid Colt Outlaw #111 w with inks by D. Ayers.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Strange Tales #110 - Plot: Stan Lee Script: H.E. Huntley (Ernie Hart) Art: MR. Ayers Letterer: John Duffy

Cover by Jack Kirby (inked by Ayers)

Remember the days when the first 4 pages of 13 page story were all recap???

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Strange Tales #110 - Plot: Stan Lee Script & Art: Larry Lieber Inking: Matt Fox Lettering: Art Simek

Then we have another tale whipped up by the Lieber brothers...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Tales of Suspense #43 - Plot: Stan Lee Script & Art: Larry Lieber Inking: Matt Fox Lettering: Tom Foral

And while I'm at it, I'll add this story I forgot by the Lieber brothers...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Strange Tales #110 - Story: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Lettering: Terry Szenics

Stan had TRIED to warn people how bad it might be in his letter to Jerry Bails:

“We have a new character in the works for Strange Tales (just a 5-page filler named Dr. Strange).

Steve Ditko is gonna draw him. Sort of a black magic theme. The first story is nothing great, but perhaps we can make something of him—’twas Steve’s idea, and I figgered we’d give it a chance, although again, we had to rush the first one too much.

Why did Stan not care for this character who he'd later claim was one of his favorite 'creations'?

In Doctor Strange's first 9 appearance in Strange Tales he isn't even mentioned on the cover for the first FIVE times he appears, and then over the next 4 issues he has a picture-LESS mention 3 times and ONCE a small picture in a small box mention.

THIS from an editor who once ran advertising copy at the bottom of every story in a comic.

Over the next couple of years Doc's cover appearances would look like this:

1 - 45% of the cover

3 - 33% of the cover (at the bottom)

1 - 25% of the cover

1 - 25% of the cover (at the bottom)

1 - 25% of the cover (round insert)

4 - 15% of the cover insert at or near the bottom

1 - 10% of the cover insert at the bottom

1 - 10% just a head shot with arrow text

2- small box text insert with no picture

 

with only

1 - 50% cover (#123 where Doc is upstaged by Loki and a pic of Thor)

1 - 66% of the cover (a GREAT cover #130)

 

Remember: This was at a time when Cap and Iron Man would rotate the cover of each issue of Tales of Suspense and Hulk and Sub-Mariner would rotate the cover of each issue of Tales to Astonish. FULL COVERS.

But passive aggressive Lee would save his worst for the last year with Ditko on the book:

Doctor Strange would get NO mention at all on the cover of Strange Tales #135, #138, #140, #141, #142, #143 and #145 with just a mostly silhouetted Doc Strange (no mention) is READING Nick Fury on #139…

before... on the FINAL Ditko issue, he puts him on the FULL COVER (#144) for the FIRST time with a title proudly displayed on that cover: "The End at Last!"

Not sure who came up with the title of Ditko's last story, but SOMEONE was happy it was over!

 

For the rest of the run, minus Ditko, Doctor Strange would swap FULL COVERS every other month with Nick Fury. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

As far as I can tell, I'm one of the first people to really notice and write about this, and yet... it's right there in plain sight and says a lot about the relationship of how Stan handled those who challenged his 'creator' status. Ditko coming up with Doctor Strange was really the beginning of the end of his relationship with Stan and once he began to push his ideas on ASM, it would lead to Lee completely ignoring him and refusing to talk and eventually their parting of ways. 

A really BIG moment in the History of Marvel Comics.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:01 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Tales of Suspense #43 - Plot: Stan Lee Script & Art: Larry Lieber Inking: Matt Fox Lettering: Tom Foral

And while I'm at it, I'll add this story I forgot by the Lieber brothers...

Two Lieber Bros./Matt Fox stories back-to-back, one lettered by Artie Simek, the other by Tom Foral. Just to show the impact a professional lettering job has on the overall appearance.

[Zonker]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:36 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

Strange Tales #110 - Story: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Lettering: Terry Szenics

Stan had TRIED to warn people how bad it might be in his letter to Jerry Bails:

“We have a new character in the works for Strange Tales (just a 5-page filler named Dr. Strange).

Steve Ditko is gonna draw him. Sort of a black magic theme. The first story is nothing great, but perhaps we can make something of him—’twas Steve’s idea, and I figgered we’d give it a chance, although again, we had to rush the first one too much.

Why did Stan not care for this character who he'd later claim was one of his favorite 'creations'?

In Doctor Strange's first 9 appearance in Strange Tales he isn't even mentioned on the cover for the first FIVE times he appears, and then over the next 4 issues he has a picture-LESS mention 3 times and ONCE a small picture in a small box mention.

THIS from an editor who once ran advertising copy at the bottom of every story in a comic.

 

Doctor Strange is indeed a crazy outlier in all this.  When have we ever before (or since?) seen Stan run away from taking/accepting credit for something? He is disavowing responsibility for it before it is even published!  I suppose it is possible he is indeed souring/resentful over Ditko even now, but we don't really see other evidence of that until later, do we?  (Amazing Spider-Man starting in the teens or so).  Maybe Stan just doesn't have an affinity for the "black magic theme?"  Maybe it is too taxing on his scripting abilities to keep thinking up new incantations to rival "By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth?" 

Or maybe this character really is unique in being a 100% Stan-Lee-hands-off creation, and so Stan really doesn't feel any ownership for it.  We'll never know how much Stan actually supplied to the creative process of all the other characters, but it sure seems like it was something he felt at the time that he had done for the others that led him to push those at the expense of Stephen Strange.  

[Dr. Haydn]

"Or maybe this character really is unique in being a 100% Stan-Lee-hands-off creation, and so Stan really doesn't feel any ownership for it.  We'll never know how much Stan actually supplied to the creative process of all the other characters, but it sure seems like it was something he felt at the time that he had done for the others that led him to push those at the expense of Stephen Strange."

 

Interesting to note the difference between Stan's treatment of Dr. Strange vs. his later treatment of the Silver Surfer, also 100% non-Lee at first, as he acknowledged. Stan embraced the character, brought him back multiple times in FF (and the Hulk feature in Tales to Astonish), and later introduced his own distinct spin on the character in a separate, double-sized magazine (minus Kirby, who had dreamed up the character in the first place).

[Prince Namor]

Stan would also talk smack about Wally Wood's writing ability in the same issue Wood's story was featured (coming up next year). 
 

And when Kirby would later talk about how he wrote his own material at Marvel, he'd refer to him as 'lost his mind' or 'evil'. 
 

Stan wanted all the credit for the creation and the writing and anyone who challenged him would get ignored, banished from his prescience, manipulated, talked about or run out of the company. 

Stan Lee: "I would have to think [Jack]’s either lost his mind or he’s a very evil person."

...or comparing Ditko to Hitler...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

For May, Marvel would release 10 titles to the newsstand. That's 54 for 1963 so far, or 10.8 a month. 

5 superhero books - 2 Western - 1 War - 2 comedy/romance

 

May 2nd, 1962

Gunsmoke Western #77

Journey Into Mystery #94 

Love Romances #106 FINAL ISSUE

Sgt. Fury #2

Tales to Astonish #46

 

 

May 9th, 1962

Fantastic Four #17

Patsy & Hedy #89

Rawhide Kid #35 

Strange Tales #111

Tales of Suspense #44

Edited March 13, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Journey Into Mystery #94 - Plot: Stan Lee Script: R. Berns (Robert Bernstein) Art: J. Sinnott Lettering: S. Rosen

Stan's first name is the only one actually spelled out...

Cover by Jack Kirby with Dick Ayers inks - 'The Marvel Age of Comics' is used on the cover, one of its earliest appearances.

This story is SO goofy...

Edited March 13, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Journey Into Mystery #94 - Plot: Stan Lee Script & Art: Larry Lieber Lettering: Art Simek

Everyone gets their first name spelled out here.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Journey Into Mystery #94 - Story: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Lettering: Art Simek

Everyone gets their first name spelled out here.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Tales to Astonish #46 - Plot: Stan Lee Script: H.E. Huntley (Ernie Hart) Art: Don Heck Lettering: S. Rosen

Jack Kirby cover, inked by Dick Ayers

Another pretty bland story that would've fit in perfectly at DC. Maybe I'm just biased against Don Heck (who does a horrible self inking job on this that even Vince Colletta would've winced at), but...

Edited March 15, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Tales to Astonish #46 - Plot: Stan Lee Script: Larry Lieber Art: Paul Reinman Lettering: Art Simek

Paul Reinman's time at Marvel was coming to an end... he'd already started supplementing his income with work at ACG and he'd soon move on to Archie (on Fly Man, the Shadow and the Mighty Crusaders). He return after to do various freelance work for them, including colorist work. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Tales to Astonish #46 - Story: Stan Lee Art: Steve Ditko Lettering: Art Simek

Could've sworn I've read at least a variation of this story before...

Edited March 15, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Dr. Haydn]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:57 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS MAY 1963

Tales to Astonish #46 - Plot: Stan Lee Script: H.E. Huntley (Ernie Hart) Art: Don Heck Lettering: S. Rosen

Jack Kirby cover, inked by Dick Ayers

Another pretty bland story that would've fit in perfectly at DC. Maybe I'm just biased against Don Heck (who does a horrible self inking job on this that even Vince Colletta would've winced at), but...

Pretty scratchy art—almost looks like it was reproduced from Heck’s pencils!

[Mmehdy]

It is very interesting that the quality of many issues varied. As a newstand buyer the Kirby cover would get me everytime, I would not look on the inside...that is just how we bought it...cover only for the young buyers, So I did purchase the Thor above on the newstand and was disappointed when I got home. It is hard to say when the tipping point came for Marvel over DC during that time and Doctor Solar created a collectors stir along with a few other titles. ACG was never in the running and either was Dell except for Space Man...that created a ripple also. I really like the approach of going month by month because I had forgotten about the mundane or average marvel material and just assumed it ALL was great out of the starting gate. If I was forced to pick one year for Marvel, it would be 1968...when the expansion came. FF Annual 1 was considered by collectors along with issue #1 to be the hardest ones to get or most valuable  in 1963, and I recall getting that one and strange tales Annual.  FF5 was a hot book also by 1963.

 Being there, and waiting each for to get my young mind blown by covers and stories which I could understand read and reread are great. My point is that the Kirby/Ditko marvels, even some of the monster books were very re readable ...that carried a lot of value in the early collector days as opposed to a one and out DC superboy...that was the game changer here...from boots on the ground. But as we have seen here..not all Marvels are created equally.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Mmehdy