Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures! 3 3

[Prince Namor]

On 3/18/2023 at 3:05 PM, Mmehdy said:

It should be in the Ditko marvel archives book....

Yeah that's one I don't own (or two of them actually) because I wasn't much of a fan of the stories, and... even the digital versions of those books are expensive, so... that's the only time it's been reprinted in the U.S. and the Lieber story has NEVER been printed.

It'd actually be cheaper to find a beat up copy of of JIM #95 probably...

 

[Dr. Haydn]

Notice the sloppy credit box. Was this a story from late 1962 that was withheld until now?

[Dr. Haydn]

On 3/18/2023 at 7:59 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

Notice the sloppy credit box. Was this a story from late 1962 that was withheld until now?

Intergalactic space travel in 1998. I wonder what happened to that?

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Tales to Astonish #47 - Story/Plot: Stan Lee -script: H.E. Huntley (Ernie Hart) Art: Don Heck - What? No Letterer?

What's behind Stan changing this to 'Story/Plot'? My guess it has to do with either credit or pay.

Pay I could understand... but credit? Man, there were a lot of BAD stories in the early days of Marvel. 

Heck's art here again looks scratchy and rushed...

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Tales to Astonish #47 - Plot: Stan Lee Script & Art: Larry Lieber Inking: Matt Fox Lettering: Art Sime

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Tales to Astonish #47 - Written by Stan Lee  Art by Steve Ditko Lettered by Art Simel

Misleading credits as the Marvel Method didn't involve actually 'writing' the stories. 

[Dr. Haydn]

On 3/19/2023 at 7:48 AM, Prince Namor said:

 

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Tales to Astonish #47 - Story/Plot: Stan Lee --script: H.E. Huntley (Ernie Hart) Art: Don Heck - What? No Letterer?

What's behind Stan changing this to 'Story/Plot'? My guess it has to do with either credit or pay.

Pay I could understand... but credit? Man, there were a lot of BAD stories in the early days of Marvel. 

Heck's art here again looks scratchy and rushed...

 

A few random thoughts:

 

The lettering is half Art Simek (pp. 1-6), half Sam Rosen (pp. 7-13). Something similar happens in Spider-man #4; once again, with no letterer credit on the splash page.

Marvel continues their tentative attempts at integration (page 9, last panel). It makes sense; one would expect a racially diverse group in a story featuring jazz. I wonder if this was Don Heck's idea, or Ernie Hart's?

A little Scripture in the story's final panel, courtesy of Ernie Hart! (Stan usually shied away from doing this) The quote in question immediately got me thinking of X-Men #100, "Greater Love Hath No X-Man..." and Jean Grey's sacrifice.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Two Gun Kid #65 - Jack Kirby also ddid the cover to Two Gun Kid #65 - (Dick Ayers Inks)

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

And then you had your Kathy #24, Modeling with Millie #24 and Patsy Walker #108.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Strange Tales Annual #2 - Written By: Stan Lee (Actually meaning 'synopsis by') Drawn By: Jack Kirby (actually meaning 'plotted, written and drawn by') Inking: Steve Ditko Lettering: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with (maybe) Sol Brodsky inks

It's interesting that Ditko is yet to get a special assignment outside of his normal duties (other than inking Kirby), despite Marvel trying to expand. The idea that Lee had a stable of talent to choose from is nonsense - Lee would've used Kirby for EVERYTHING if he could. Even though Ditko has a HIT on his hands in Spider-man - Lee doesn't seem interested in Dr. Strange....

Kirby's Spider-man is not anyone's preferred choice I'd imagine.

Human Torch still lives in 'Glendale' in this story.

Johnny Storm thinks Spidey has 'Spider Vision'.

Unlike DC Heroes, Spidey and Johnny are in New York City, and meet up on the Statue of Liberty. This is a great idea by Marvel, by putting them in the 'real' world. 

This would be the template for pretty much every Marvel team up for the rest of eternity - the characters meet up under uncertain circumstances and fight by mistake before teaming up to fight the bad guy. The opposite of DC's 'we're all on the same team' mentality. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Strange Tales Annual #2 - Three Great Ads!

Edited March 20, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Strange Tales Annual #2 - It's cool that Marvel has 18 pages of NEW material in their Annual, something DC does NOT do (they feature ALL reprints), but there's also 51 pages of reprint material here... it's interesting to see a Jack Kirby written and drawn story from 1959 (Strange Tales #67)... it reminds us of how much of HIS voice sets the tone of Marvel's Superhero stories...

Edited March 20, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Dr. Haydn]

On 3/20/2023 at 5:21 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Strange Tales Annual #2 - Written By: Stan Lee (Actually meaning 'synopsis by') Drawn By: Jack Kirby (actually meaning 'plotted, written and drawn by') Inking: Steve Ditko Lettering: Art Simek

Cover by Jack Kirby with (maybe) Sol Brodsky inks

It's interesting that Ditko is yet to get a special assignment outside of his normal duties (other than inking Kirby), despite Marvel trying to expand. The idea that Lee had a stable of talent to choose from is nonsense - Lee would've used Kirby for EVERYTHING if he could. Even though Ditko has a HIT on his hands in Spider-man - Lee doesn't seem interested in Dr. Strange....

Kirby's Spider-man is not anyone's preferred choice I'd imagine.

Human Torch still lives in 'Glendale' in this story.

Johnny Storm thinks Spidey has 'Spider Vision'.

Unlike DC Heroes, Spidey and Johnny are in New York City, and meet up on the Statue of Liberty. This is a great idea by Marvel, by putting them in the 'real' world. 

This would be the template for pretty much every Marvel team up for the rest of eternity - the characters meet up under uncertain circumstances and fight by mistake before teaming up to fight the bad guy. The opposite of DC's 'we're all on the same team' mentality. 

I read this story in reprint form in the mid-1970s. It holds up pretty well. Stan's typical comic banter seems appropriate for a couple of hot-headed teenagers. Spider-man looks bulkier here in Jack's version (was Peter hitting the gym?) but Steve Ditko's inks keep him somewhat on model. 

The Fox is Reynard Slinker? Clever name from Stan (or Jack?). Right up there with E. Nigma for the Riddler!

Edited March 20, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
typo

[Dr. Haydn]

Panel 1: Sue and Johnny have a cat! Do we ever see their furry little pet in Strange Tales or Fantastic Four?

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Fantastic Four #18 - Stan has gone to doing the credits as: Written by Stan Lee (which is obviously misleading) Drawn by Jack Kirby (which is obviously understated) Inked by MR. Ayers and Lettering by Art Simek

Part ONE:

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Fantastic Four #18 - 

Part TWO:

 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Fantastic Four #18 - Ad Page - First appearance of the X-Men logo... Now if Jack had been working on the book since December of 1962 when his pages got reduced... wouldn't they have a preview featuring more than just the logo? This was laid out in March...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

My Greatest Adventure #80 - UNLESS of course, a DC team introduced on April 18th by DC Comics.. just enough time for Marvel to come up with a LOGO to put in this issue... would've made them decide THEY needed an 'off-beat' team....

Here they are... The Doom Patrol

Chapter ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1963

My Greatest Adventure #80 - Which mean that Kirby could've EASILY began work on the X-Men and had it finished in time for a July release... was Jerry Bails, or ROY THOMAS passing along pre-release information to Marvel from DC???

Info like that could land you a job...

Chapter TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1963

Fantastic Four #18 - Where were we... oh yeah, the letters page!

Stan gives Ditko credit for coming up with the corner box! (No extra pay was involved, natch!)

The Wasp gets no mention as a member of the Avengers!

NO mention of who any of the X-Men are... another sign the book wasn't even began in March of 1963... 4 MONTHS from the time Kirby's work load was cut.... Hmmm....