Grade Category Apparent SS SA 2 2

[zephyr424]

Greetings. I'm interested in potentially purchasing an Avengers 1 Signature Series and was doing some due diligence on it. The cert # is 1187763001 and under the Grade Category it says "Apparent SS SA". Can someone tell me what that means? 

How thorough of a job does CGC do in authenticating signatures? In order to be authenticated, does it have to be done in front of a CGC representative? Here's a picture of the comic. Any thoughts are welcome. Thank you.

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by zephyr424

[Tony S]

You have linked to the wrong book - or you have written down the wrong serial number.  The book you link to is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 4.5 graded in 2018.  The serial number you list is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 6.0 restored with a small amount of  amateur color touch on the cover, graded 6.0 in 2013. 

So I will answer your questions generically 

"Apparent SA" is a restored book.  Apparent means it looks like xxx grade.  SA means the restoration is slight and is amateur in quality. Restoration means the book has been altered from it's original state - in this case adding color to the cover. 
"SS" is Signature Series. 
CGC only gives a yellow, signature series label to books that a CGC employee or authorized signature facilitator witnessed - in person - the book being signed. 

I would mention - just in case you are unaware - that restored books sell for less money than the same book in the same grade with no restoration. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes just some less. 

[zephyr424]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:00 AM, Tony S said:

You have linked to the wrong book - or you have written down the wrong serial number.  The book you link to is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 4.5 graded in 2018.  The serial number you list is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 6.0 restored with a small amount of  amateur color touch on the cover, graded 6.0 in 2013. 

So I will answer your questions generically 

"Apparent SA" is a restored book.  Apparent means it looks like xxx grade.  SA means the restoration is slight and is amateur in quality. Restoration means the book has been altered from it's original state - in this case adding color to the cover. 
"SS" is Signature Series. 
CGC only gives a yellow, signature series label to books that a CGC employee or authorized signature facilitator witnessed - in person - the book being signed. 

I would mention - just in case you are unaware - that restored books sell for less money than the same book in the same grade with no restoration. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes just some less. 

Indeed I did put the wrong link in. I just added a picture of the book itself. So, it does have a yellow label. According to what you stated, that means it was a witnessed by CGC, Stan Lee signature.

The signature appears to be very legible and also has more of a vertical slant, unlike the majority of Mr. Lee's signatures I've seen which tilt towards the right. That was one reason I was leery about the book. What do you, or anyone else think about that, or the value of the comic for a 10k asking price? There doesn't seem to be much of a color restoration from my novice opinion. If anyone knows of a better deal around the same asking price, please let me know. Thanks.

Edited March 5, 2023 by zephyr424

[Tony S]

Your original link was to a CGC 4.5 signed by Stan that was unrestored.  And the price was $10,200.   

I - and probably most - collectors would rather have an unrestored 4.5 vs a  restored 6.0 if both were the same price. The unrestored copy is also always going to be easier to sell. Many - perhaps most  - collectors avoid restored books. It's impossible to tell from the picture how much color touch there is on the book. I will  mention I've seen restored books with a "small" amount of color touch according to CGC that IMHO looked like more than what I would call small. 

And yes - the yellow label CGC label means a CGC employee or signature facilitator witnessed Stan Lee sign the book. CGC does not have a "verification" service. Only a witnessed service. Stan Lee's signature could vary quite a bit. I would have no concerns that the signature was legit. 

[Tony S]

As for value of the comic - GPA - which captures actual sales of CGC graded books (not a price guide, actual sales) suggests 10K is high for any of the two books we have discussed.  The advice I normally give on books like this is be patient and wait for a no reserve auction. Because asking prices on eBay are typically high - sometimes very high. 

Your.....problem.... will be you are looking for a signed copy. It might be a while before  a signed copy turns up in auction. Unsigned copies in 4.5 and 5.0 are on mycomicshop right now for just under $5,000. At auction, signed copies do not usually bring 2x the price of unsigned. But asking prices are that high because there are not many copies for sale at any given moment. 

[Lightning55]

It has a yellow label - a PURPLE/yellow label.

Getting purple qualified or purple signature series is a good way to get rid of MOST of the purple. 

[JollyComics]

Did you notice "Slight (A)"?  The small amount of color touch was done by an amateur.  

It's risky to purchase it with 3 reasons:  1. You change your mind to resell it and you may lose money.  2. If you want the restoration removal, it will cost you money IF CCS CANNOT remove the restoration then you will stuck with the unchanged book. 3. If CSS will able to remove it, you will be very lucky to have the unrestored SS book BUT you may lose some points by half point, 1 full point or more.

You may NEVER know what the restoration looks like inside the encapsulation case.  The WORST case is if you decided to crack the case, the book HAS to be regraded and you MAY get the green label.  Let them do it for you.

All I can say to you ----  Good luck and welcome to the boards.

[zephyr424]

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. One other thing I noticed is, on the 6.0 book I uploaded a picture of, there is about 1/8" to the right of the Marvel stamp (right side of the cover). Most copies of this book only have about 1/16", but are not given the "trimmed" designation by CGC. One that was recently graded, had the same 1/16" to the right of the stamp, but said "trimmed". Were the grading methods changed or did Marvel have different cover widths on some of these books? You can also see more material on Thor's cape and additional lines on Loki's fingers. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by zephyr424

[Lazyboy]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:45 AM, zephyr424 said:

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it. One other thing I noticed is, on the 6.0 book I uploaded a picture of, there is about 1/8" to the right of the Marvel stamp (right side of the cover). Most copies of this book only have about 1/16", but are not given the "trimmed" designation by CGC. One that was recently graded, had the same 1/16" to the right of the stamp, but said "trimmed". Were the grading methods changed or did Marvel have different cover widths on some of these books? You can also see more material on Thor's cape and additional lines on Loki's fingers. 

That's not how trimming is determined. Covers (and whole books, for that matter) can be cut and wrapped differently. Comic manufacturing was nowhere near being a precise, perfect thing.

[zephyr424]

Just curious. Would you think this signature is legit and done in 1995? 

Edited March 5, 2023 by zephyr424

[JollyComics]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:47 PM, zephyr424 said:

Just curious. Would you think this signature is legit and done in 1995? 

FYI, the Mod will remove it because of non-CGC book.  It's not allowed to show this book with the different company here.

[Lightning55]

Also a Restored book, but the other company makes it less obvious. 

[steveinthecity]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:05 AM, Foolish Mortal! said:

That's a CBCS book, they do things differently. And where do you see 1995?

There’s a “ ‘95 “ written under Stan’s name.

[zephyr424]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:00 AM, Tony S said:

You have linked to the wrong book - or you have written down the wrong serial number.  The book you link to is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 4.5 graded in 2018.  The serial number you list is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 6.0 restored with a small amount of  amateur color touch on the cover, graded 6.0 in 2013. 

So I will answer your questions generically 

"Apparent SA" is a restored book.  Apparent means it looks like xxx grade.  SA means the restoration is slight and is amateur in quality. Restoration means the book has been altered from it's original state - in this case adding color to the cover. 
"SS" is Signature Series. 
CGC only gives a yellow, signature series label to books that a CGC employee or authorized signature facilitator witnessed - in person - the book being signed. 

I would mention - just in case you are unaware - that restored books sell for less money than the same book in the same grade with no restoration. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes just some less. 

Sorry. Indeed I did put the wrong link in. I just added a picture of the book itself. So, it does have a yellow label. According to what you stated, that means it was a witnessed by CGC, Stan Lee signature, correct? 

The signature appears to be very legible and more to a leftward slant, which is unlike the majority of Mr. Lee's signatures I've seen. That was one reason I was leery about the book. What do you, or anyone else think about that, or the value of the comic for a 10k asking price? There doesn't seem to be too much color restoration from my novice opinion.If anyone knows of a better deal around the same asking price, please let me know. Thanks.

[JollyComics]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:31 PM, zephyr424 said:

My novice opinion.

Now, it's N00b's opinion.

[zephyr424]

Hey guys. I ended up buying one from an auction. The only thing is, I noticed a possible problem with it. Where it gives the grade as 4.5, the ink in the numbers is very lite. Almost grayish. Do you think this slab is legitimate? Thanks. 

[thehumantorch]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:34 PM, zephyr424 said:

Hey guys. I ended up buying one from an auction. The only thing is, I noticed a possible problem with it. Where it gives the grade as 4.5, the ink in the numbers is very lite. Almost grayish. Do you think this slab is legitimate? Thanks. 

Looks legit to me.  Check the slab closely, make sure there's no damage at the corners and the posts.  Slabs are designed to crack when tampered with.  Perhaps you could post a back cover picture.  Where did you buy it from?  Nice book.  

[JollyComics]

Congratulations!

[zephyr424]

Thanks guys. I purchased it from Ebay.  Here's a picture of the back cover.

[thehumantorch]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:14 PM, zephyr424 said:

Thanks guys. I purchased it from Ebay.  Here's a picture of the back cover.

Nice book.  Congrats.  I can’t see any damage at the corners.  Looks legit