Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures 4 4

[october]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, jsilverjanet said:

You know your arse is getting old when:

1. You know Blanche from not reruns.

2. She don't look half bad.

Edited March 18, 2023 by october

[RedRaven]

On 3/17/2023 at 7:23 PM, october said:

2. She don't look half bad.

Lest we forget...

Spoiler

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:47 PM, crassus said:

Exactly, story comes first, everything else should come second, and that does mean that sometimes fan expectations may have to be challenged, but there is a sort of structural integrity to what makes a good story and compelling characters, and that is often not respected. Riri and Cassie are similar examples of the same problem, too much too fast, creating cut out characters to which the audience has no time and no plausible reason to connect.

I did not like Quantumania, so I had even less to invest in Cassie, but I did overall like Wakanda, and Riri was too much too fast, in the end I couldn't make a connection with the character. And imo that was a problem that was easily fixable, they just had to dial her down and slow it up a bit. She could have  been presented more modestly as a brilliant and promising student, ignored and overlooked by academia, who happened to stumble upon something big (vibranium detector? I think?) who  suddenly gets swept into a world of intrigue. She didn't have to be a universal genius with an Iron Man suit ready to be a superhero at a moment's notice etc...way way too much and it punched a big hole in the movie...in too much of a hurry....this hurts the character, if you are looking to introduce us to a strong female lead for the future, great, but take the time to make her a real person. 

....this defines a lot of what I haven't  liked about the recent movies...one of the reasons I'm not  a fan of "multi-verse" "time-travelling" etc it just becomes a convenient excuse for throwing greater numbers of new and old  heroes  at the screen at ever greater velocities....they need to slow the whole thing down...

Riri Williams and Cassie Lang were still just supporting characters of a larger ensemble. Although Cassie had a small hero arc (learning how to be a better fighter), they didn’t really need strong character arcs. They were there to help serve the main character’s mission. Wakanda Forever was still Shuri and Namor’s movie, and Quantumania was Scott Lang and Kang’s movie. If you want a strong character arc for Riri, I suppose she’ll get one in the Ironheart series, coming soon to Disney+.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:05 PM, thegiftedone45 said:

Are you kidding me that was the best part of Captain Marvel.  Just showing her standing up every time was historic character storytelling.  It's why the next movie will break records....

Look y’all, if you have any questions about the meanings in Capitan Marvel, just ask me. My DM is open.

A big story element of Captain Marvel is memory. That’s appropriate because memory (or loss of) defined a lot of the comic book Carol Danvers complicated story. 

The story of the Captain Marvel movie on the surface is an alien warrior woman Vers searching for Skrulls on Earth. But beneath that, the warrior woman is inadvertently searching for her past and her memories, which she lost six years ago. The two searches are connected. So during the warrior woman’s big confrontation with the Supreme Intelligence towards the end of the movie, Vers’ memories come rushing back, helped by meeting the people of her past earlier, like Maria and Monica. So when we see the different versions of the warrior woman standing up during her showdown with the SI, that represents Vers reclaiming her memories and who she really is, culminating in her line “My name is Carol.”

Get it?

Edited March 18, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:23 PM, drotto said:

My favorite part was that Captian Marvel showed basically no emotions through the entire film, yet they continuously stressed that her not controlling her emotions was what was holding her back.   

Ummmmm, Ok?

The Supreme Intelligence and Yonn-Rogg were actively working to keep Carol brainwashed through the movie to keep her under their control. 

Vers actually did display emotions through the movie. She expressed humor, anger, sadness etc. The movie itself wasn’t a highly dramatic movie by design, as it was sandwiched between the two biggest dramatic stories of the MCU. 

 

[drotto]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:24 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

The Supreme Intelligence and Yonn-Rogg were actively working to keep Carol brainwashed through the movie to keep her under their control. 

Vers actually did display emotions through the movie. She expressed humor, anger, sadness etc. The movie itself wasn’t a highly dramatic movie by design, as it was sandwiched between the two biggest dramatic stories of the MCU. 

 

So just a variation on the, you were always perfect you just needed to believe in yourself plot. No actual hero's journey arc.

[TupennyConan]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:55 AM, drotto said:

So just a variation on the, you were always perfect you just needed to believe in yourself plot. No actual hero's journey arc.

This is a convincing analysis. Do you conclude along with the OP video that this brand of serial bad writing is the product of social activism calling the shots? 

Can it be said that the MCU creatives nearly must write the new Phase 4 heroes as perfect & the Phases 1 - 3 heroes as clowns to meet the demands of social activism? 

[jcjames]

On 3/18/2023 at 7:55 AM, drotto said:

So just a variation on the, you were always perfect you just needed to believe in yourself plot. No actual hero's journey arc.

That's the narcissist's journey arc. 

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:55 AM, drotto said:

So just a variation on the, you were always perfect you just needed to believe in yourself plot. No actual hero's journey arc.

Although Maria tells Carol she was strong and a best friend before her accident, nobody says Carol is perfect. If you’d actually watch the movie and not automatically see the character as a Mary Sue, you’d see that. Also, even though Stark, Stephen Strange, and Thor were a**holes, not every hero has to start off as such. Carol just needs to remember that she’s human, not a Kree weapon.

Carol absolutely goes on a hero’s journey in the classic sense. She starts in her normal Kree world with her Kree outlook on life and a Kree mentor.. She crosses the threshold of a strange new world when she is kidnapped by the Skrulls and crashes on Earth. She meets  a guide through this new world with Nick Fury. As this is also a voyage of her memory, she picks up pieces of her past through her journey and also picks up a new mentor in Talos. Armed with her newfound knowledge of her past and that her Kree outlook was wrong, she returns to the cave or world she left behind to face the big Kree villain and reclaim her humanity and memories, visually represented by her powering up, which is also the ultimate goal of every MCU film, powering up. With a new mastery of her powers, the hero rejects the new world to further confront her former masters with her new powers. Captain Marvel absolutely follows a classic hero’s journey. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, Artboy99 said:

while I don't agree with the order he puts the releases in, I generally agree with his take on all of this. Enjoy!

 

5. I didn’t like Black Widow, but it wasn’t bad because of its womanness, as this video tries to say. Its plot holes and poor story development undermined the movie’s tension, to me. Really the movie was doomed for me from the start. Why would Russia, who is trying to groom and brainwash two little girls for its Black Widow program, allow those two little girls to live for years in the warm comfort and freedom of an “American” family? Even though young Natasha knows it’s fake, Yelena later says that for her it was real. Makes no sense. And the spy family is running from SHIELD who would have saved the two little girls, undermining real story tension there.

Why would Russia put a maximum security prison in an area prone to avalanches? The movie wants us to believe that Natasha is terrified of Taskmaster towards the end of the movie, but gives us no real reason to believe that she would be scared of Taskmaster from prior interactions in the movie. Why is Red Guardian such a lummox in the movie when he seemed so intelligent in the America flashback? Why undermine Melina’s likability by having her choke out her pet pig? Am I supposed to really believe that Fury or Natasha wouldn’t have heard about women assassins running around Europe dressed like Black Widows or of a crazy floating city in the sky? I didn’t believe that for a second.

These story development issues have nothing to do with diversity equity or inclusion but the nerdrotic YouTubers still cry “M-SHE-U!”

Edited March 22, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[TupennyConan]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

 these nerdrotic YouTubers still cry “M-SHE-U!”

Everything from Black Widow forward has been so bad that we all look for an easily understood universal reason, and this is a fun one. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, Artboy99 said:

while I don't agree with the order he puts the releases in, I generally agree with his take on all of this. Enjoy!

 

4. Loki is one of the highest critically rated MCU Disney+ shows and it’s most watched. The show had lots of winning moments: Loki and Moebius’s relationship, the intro of the TVA, the Loki-Sylvie romance, Loki’s variants like Classic Loki and Alligator Loki, the introduction of Kang’s variants, to name some highlights. By most accounts, Loki was a huge success. Yet this nerdrotic YouTube video is trying to tell us it’s a “M-SHE-U” failure? What?

[MR SigS]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:10 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Where the "M-She-U" phrase has its advantage is that the problems with Phase Bore (my preferred terminology) are perpetuated now in Phase Five.

Any suggestions? Phase Deprive? Phase Dive?

Phase Dive works. And just in case it's successful enough to continue on, I'll suggest Phase Sux next.

Edited March 18, 2023 by MR SigS

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, Artboy99 said:

while I don't agree with the order he puts the releases in, I generally agree with his take on all of this. Enjoy!

 

3. Picking on She-Hulk is kind of low hanging fruit given that She-Hulk with its 4th wall breaking format picked on trolling YouTube sites just like nerdrotic. Talk about life imitating art imitating life. Of course, this video itself is low hanging fruit.

Anyway, yet again this video nitpicks things that really don’t have much to do with diversity equity and inclusion besides its troll bashing. And some nitpicks are just plain wrong.  Jennifer Walters is not perfect by any means. In fact she’s a lonely work obsessed nerd. As She-Hulk, she may look perfect, but she’s far from the perfect superhero even though she thinks she has nothing to learn. She doesn’t even want to be a superhero, suffering from the great power great responsibility issue that other would-be heroes deal with. Clearly she has things to learn and Matt Murdock even kind of shows her the way, how to balance her career and being a superhero 

And can She-Hulk be considered a failure? It got strong viewership ratings and good reviews. Yes it pissed off some fans, but mission accomplished. Granted, in the future, I think the MCU should no longer pick on certain parts of the fan base like that.

Edited March 18, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Artboy99]

It is the M-She-U when you emasculate the men in the TV show or film.

Specific examples:

Did we really need to make the Red Guardian a bumbling fool that can barely fit into his costume for the laugh?

Did Loki need to be kneed in the package by Sif over and over and over? Ha-ha that's funny...not.

Do we need to be shown Matt Murdock dressed in his Daredevil costume doing the walk of shame from Jen's apartment? And let's make the Hulk as soft as possible dressed in a sweater as he introduces his son.

And teenage girls with plenty of sass are capable of creating Stark level technology. Good thing too since Stark is dead and they needed the technology creation to drive the stories of their most recent films and clearly any 18-19 year old girl can do it, nothing special about Tony Stark at all.

Don't get me started on how they chose to destroy the character of Thor.

All of it is absolutely awful writing completely destroying the strong male characters of Marvel history in favor of this new product. It was a mistake in the comics, it is a mistake in their TV shows and films evident by the terrible sales and box office results.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Artboy99

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:23 PM, october said:

On 3/17/2023 at 5:46 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Expand  

You know your arse is getting old when:

1. You know Blanche from not reruns.

2. She don't look half bad.

The wonderful benefit of growing older is all the beautiful older women who suddenly catch your attention. Youth is truly wasted on the young!

[october]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:07 AM, TupennyConan said:

This is a convincing analysis. Do you conclude along with the OP video that this brand of serial bad writing is the product of social activism calling the shots? 

Can it be said that the MCU creatives nearly must write the new Phase 4 heroes as perfect & the Phases 1 - 3 heroes as clowns to meet the demands of social activism? 

Lifting up females is so much easier when you tear men down. 

Society has an unfortunate way of overreacting when trying to fix historical imbalances. What we are currently witnessing at Disney/Marvel is the pendulum swinging too far (again) before our very eyes. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by october

[october]

Phase Bore = struggle sessions for the hero patriarchy. 

I'll not pay for the privilege. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by october

[Bosco685]

[Mr Sneeze]

When I saw the Taika (I like him, Ragnarok and his other films) video talking about L&T, it seemed he had almost contempt for the material. That the studio was that unaware is telling. Why let someone who has no respect for the material direct it.