@therealsilvermane Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, Bosco685 said: Nice to post it in this thread as if this is another battle in an imagined war of the superhero sexes. If folks think this means the MCU goes back to being a sausage party, well Kevin Feige is probably as much of a champion of women superheroes as Alonso is. Maybe it just has more to do with Disney and Marvel’s own statements about quality over quantity and the public issue that VFX studios have had with Marvel Studios lately. And it so happens that Victoria Alonso is the head of Marvel’s VFX. Yeah it’s a shock but it’s not really a shock. Here’s a story clipping about the VFX studios issue with Alonso that may or may not be legit: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 3:33 PM, drotto said: I do not necessarily think Feige must go (but I am close), but I think Iger should insist someone needs to be brought in to "help" him. I have never been able to figure out why Feige decided to emulate the Marvel Now circa 2015 as his template for the MCU going forward. You have decades of great material, and he decided to mine an era that is pretty much acknowledged as a failure in the comics. Those stories and most of the characters had already been rejected by fans, but hey we can make this work on film? Just dumb. The Jason Aaron run on Thor is one of the best eras of Thor ever, up there with Lee-Kirby and Walt Simonson’s. As far as Love and Thunder goes, any perceived weaknesses of the movie were not the fault of Thor’s circa 2015 comics stories. Maybe movie Gorr should’ve been handled differently. Ken Aldred 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdandns Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Oof, youtube videos over this? Professional complainers will never not crack me up. All of these MCU projects cost the same to view as what you'd pay for a couple of monthly comic books, most of which are terrible. I couldn't imagine spending longer than the 60 seconds I took to write this post on any of this stuff. djzombi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 4:49 PM, jdandns said: Oof, youtube videos over this? Professional complainers will never not crack me up. All of these MCU projects cost the same to view as what you'd pay for a couple of monthly comic books, most of which are terrible. I couldn't imagine spending longer than the 60 seconds I took to write this post on any of this stuff. All you need do is look at the views numbers of these YouTube videos to understand why they do it. Views means money for the YouTuber, and riling up the mob is one sure way to get those views. djzombi and jdandns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdandns Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 1:57 PM, @therealsilvermane said: All you need do is look at the views numbers of these YouTube videos to understand why they do it. Views means money for the YouTuber, and riling up the mob is one sure way to get those views. Sad, but true. Imagine using that same energy to, for instance, create better stories instead of just deriding the ones that currently exist to a mob for profits. @therealsilvermane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 5:00 PM, jdandns said: Sad, but true. Imagine using that same energy to, for instance, create better stories instead of just deriding the ones that currently exist to a mob for profits. I appreciate you investing the time to post based on the concerns noted earlier. But are you assuming if a large portion of fans are not happy with how Phase IV progressed, they should just suck it up and hold on for Phase V? I'm asking. Not attacking. bentbryan and jdandns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdandns Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 If it's longtime comic book buyers specifically, I'm saying they don't matter to the producers of the films at all. They (well, we) are a very, very small portion of the ticket buyers for any of these movies, which is a big part of why there is no attempt to cater to us, and why our collective complaints, whether mild or intense, will continue to fall on deaf ears. The non-comic reader ticket sales alone will ensure the movies keep getting made, and those folks lack both ability and reason to complain like us about these matters. All they have to do is stop going to movies and stop watching the TV shows, but will they? Youtube videos sure won't be convincing them one way or the other, so while it might feel good to vent along with them, they are ultimately a colossal waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 5:41 PM, jdandns said: If it's longtime comic book buyers specifically, I'm saying they don't matter to the producers of the films at all. They (well, we) are a very, very small portion of the ticket buyers for any of these movies, which is a big part of why there is no attempt to cater to us, and why our collective complaints, whether mild or intense, will continue to fall on deaf ears. The non-comic reader ticket sales alone will ensure the movies keep getting made, and those folks lack both ability and reason to complain like us about these matters. All they have to do is stop going to movies and stop watching the TV shows, but will they? Youtube videos sure won't be convincing them one way or the other, so while it might feel good to vent along with them, they are ultimately a colossal waste of time. Corporate Social Media Analysts (we have them at my company) constantly monitor for brand-related topics via Twitter, Instagram and even Youtube. And they even hire third-party companies to do this leading to a Brand Index Rating on how the company outputs are perceived by key stakeholders (e.g. customers, shareholders, media). Yes, they do get such feedback. And especially the higher the mentions, engagements and potential impressions, the more attention it gets. I get a report like this every day that shows me the most popular topics, reactions to the topic and a rating how concerned I should be about the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post drotto Posted March 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 5:41 PM, jdandns said: If it's longtime comic book buyers specifically, I'm saying they don't matter to the producers of the films at all. They (well, we) are a very, very small portion of the ticket buyers for any of these movies, which is a big part of why there is no attempt to cater to us, and why our collective complaints, whether mild or intense, will continue to fall on deaf ears. The non-comic reader ticket sales alone will ensure the movies keep getting made, and those folks lack both ability and reason to complain like us about these matters. All they have to do is stop going to movies and stop watching the TV shows, but will they? Youtube videos sure won't be convincing them one way or the other, so while it might feel good to vent along with them, they are ultimately a colossal waste of time. But box office and ticket sales are absolutely down. That means the "normies" are not seeing these movies in the same numbers. QM outright bombed. TLOT was down, BP2 was under expectations. So just based on box office they did less business. Now take into account that tickets prices are up 25% to 30% overall since 2019 due to inflation, that means on average even with the same box office you sold at least 25% less tickets. The audiences are going down. Coming back to QM, and you have reduced box office and ticket price inflation, and that means roughly (I have not one the exact math) 50% less people saw the movie as compared to Ant Man and the Wasp. So yes, the "normies" audience is not turning out either. Comic book fatigue as stated in several sources the last few weeks seems to be setting in. Now great stories will keep people coming, but we have not been getting great stories. Now combine that with the Neilson streaming numbers for 2022, and not a single MCU show appeared in the top 10 streaming shows of the year. So again, if the MCU is the biggest IP going right now, where is the audience? If the MCU has wide "normie" appeal, at least 1 or 2 of those D+ MCU shows should be in the top 10, if the IP is still the juggernaut that it once was. So again, MCU content is currently the most expensive content in entertainment. To justify continuing to spend that much money on movies and shows, the need to be seeing not just good, but fantastic returns. They are judged by a different standard, because of this. A $200 million dollar budget film with $100 to $150 million in marketing needs to be brining in over $600 million to even think of getting to the break even point (arguably more depending on domestic vs international distribution). D+ is currently losing $1 billion plus per quarter, as confirmed by Iger. So Phase 4 at best broke even, and that is just not sustainable, if the current downward trends continue. Disney is cutting (again per Iger) $3 billion dollars from content creation. With the MCU being the most expensive part of that equation is goes without saying, many cuts will come from MCU projects. If the MCU was getting the expected returns, they would not be cutting the budgets. Now couple that with all the delays, and possible cancellations of MCU (yes some of this is rumors) projects, this is yet another indicator that the MCU is not where Iger or the investors feel it needs to be. october, Larryw7, theCapraAegagrus and 5 others 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 5:41 PM, jdandns said: If it's longtime comic book buyers specifically, I'm saying they don't matter to the producers of the films at all. They (well, we) are a very, very small portion of the ticket buyers for any of these movies, which is a big part of why there is no attempt to cater to us, and why our collective complaints, whether mild or intense, will continue to fall on deaf ears. The non-comic reader ticket sales alone will ensure the movies keep getting made, and those folks lack both ability and reason to complain like us about these matters. Exactly my point earlier today in the Shazam thread. These films are no longer being made for us (as in...old school comic collectors now in their 40s-50s) - but are driven by the general (i.e., non-comic familiar) public. In the grand (box office) scheme of things, we don't matter. Yes - non-comic reader ticket sales are down overall - but that's as much due to technology shifts as the quality (or lack thereof) of Marvel Phase IV, etc. Overall theatrical sales are still down - largely because more folks today have large flat screen TV / home theater setups - and the various streaming services virtually guarantee you can now watch any movie at home just 4-6 months later. That's a true sea change in how Americans consume movies. In addition, I think we've past the apex of comic book movies. The best characters have nearly all (The Flash aside) had their stories told on screen, by solid writers and directors. Superhero movies had an unprecedented 20 year run, from 2000 (X-Men) to Avengers: Endgame (2019). Hard for me to say whether the peak was 2008 (the twin triumphs of The Dark Knight and Iron Man) or 2012 (Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, Chronicle) - but what both of those years had in common was not just truly superior films -- but also genuine excitement about the cliffhangers and road ahead. Recent product (overall) hasn't been great and (more importantly) hasn't generated rank-and-file excitement about what's next. Honestly, I think the last year the general public was truly excited about what's next in superhero movies was 2018. Why? Because that year we we were just coming out of Wonder Woman, and had Avengers: Endgame, Black Panther, Into the Spider-Verse and Deadpool 2. All were well-written, well-received and had non-comic book nerds genuinely excited about what was next. bentbryan, Ken Aldred and Mr Sneeze 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaHuman Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 If Alonso is out, than good. As head of VFX, she definitely failed (see She-Hulk). Also, if I remember correctly, she also didn't like the name "X-Men". If she's out, then there's less chance the X-Men will be re-named something ridiculous like "The Mutants". Artboy99 and theCapraAegagrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 6:41 PM, MetaHuman said: If Alonso is out, than good. As head of VFX, she definitely failed (see She-Hulk). Also, if I remember correctly, she also didn't like the name "X-Men". If she's out, then there's less chance the X-Men will be re-named something ridiculous like "The Mutants". That's her. She was also the Fox Studios integration executive for Marvel Properties when Disney was working to finalize the acquisition. Where do you think this line came from? Ignoring she said the same thing in her Nuke The Fridge interview. Only one guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Alonso leaving is so much more than the VFX angle. She embodies Representation, it's what she fights for, but apparently Disney is no longer willing to worship at that altar. Money talks, after all. I bet she wasn't down with kneeling before Zod. Buh bye! bentbryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Larryw7 Posted March 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) On 3/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, Bosco685 said: Edited March 21, 2023 by Larryw7 Bosco685, Mystafo, bentbryan and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theCapraAegagrus Posted March 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, Bosco685 said: Thank god. It's been clear to me for a long time that she's a primary force behind the things that make you roll your eyes at the MCU. Mystafo, Bosco685, Artboy99 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) On 3/21/2023 at 7:27 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: Thank god. It's been clear to me for a long time that she's a primary force behind the things that make you roll your eyes at the MCU. While parts of this may be true, this was primarily a money decision. Eliminating her will not fix the problems. As the producer in charge of overall production, special effects, and scheduling many of the current cost over runs are easy to blame on her. When almost every film is missing deadlines, having massive reshoots, and poor CGI, these are the exact things she is supposed to be preventing. Those are also very expensive items. Iger is cutting costs, and what better person to blame then person essentially in charge of quality control and budgets. Edited March 21, 2023 by drotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 9:30 AM, drotto said: While parts of this may be true, this was primarily a money decision. Eliminating her will not fix the problems. As the producer in charge of overall production, special effects, and scheduling many of the current cost over runs are easy to blame on her. When almost every film is missing deadlines, having massive reshoots, and poor CGI, these are the exact things she is supposed to be preventing. Those are also very expensive items. Iger is cutting costs, and what better person to blame then person essentially in charge of quality control and budgets. It was a money decision in the sense that her decisions costed the company revenue by prioritizing sentiments rather than technical achievements. bentbryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TupennyConan Posted March 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2023 Dr. Love, Mystafo, Hulksdaddy1 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 people are foolish to think this is the solution, Marvel/Disney have bigger issues than one person, it's the universe they have built hard to fix at this point, time to blow it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 can't wait for Amazon to buy Marvel from Disney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
