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Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures
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Started by Artboy99,

505 posts in this topic

TupennyConan

TupennyConan

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On 3/22/2023 at 5:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

Watch video at 12:39 mark on. 

Can diversity for the sake of diversity or the elevation of women through the diminishment of men ever contribute to bad writing? Or do you draw a hard line here?

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Mystafo

Mystafo

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On 3/22/2023 at 4:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

Watch video at 12:39 mark on. 

Ok, so I just watched the whole thing again just to make sure and I didn't hear anything that sounded like sour grapes over the ethnicities of those cast...can you treat me like a simpleton (easy I know lol) and point out what you see?

Edit - I do hear a lot of the word "diversity" when he talks about Eternals and how Icarus is bad because he's a white guy...so there's that I guess?

Edited by Mystafo
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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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On 3/22/2023 at 2:15 PM, Mystafo said:

Ok, so I just watched the whole thing again just to make sure and I didn't hear anything that sounded like sour grapes over the ethnicities of those cast...can you treat me like a simpleton (easy I know lol) and point out what you see?

Voice over attack on Eternals as a "diverse flop" while running film of Nanjiani, making fun of "Egyptian superhero," etc.  Watch it again.

Broader point is that racism, sexism, and religious hatred are all forms of bigotry.  I'm with Stan Lee on bigotry.

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Artboy99

Artboy99

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On 3/22/2023 at 2:31 PM, sfcityduck said:

Diverse casting in a Spiderman movie (black Gwen, black Nick Fury, black Ned, SpiderGwen, etc.) doesn't ruin the movie.

It's bad storytelling that ruins a movie.  

The video guy's focus on the diverse casting (or not hot enough females) and not the storytelling tells me more than I want to know about that guy.  His analysis is embarrassingly bad.

I acknowledge your point, and to some extent agree. Diversity casting doesn't necessarily ruin movies and it is absolutely more the bad story telling.

That said, let's use a character of color, and purposefully change it for this discussion.

The Thing is now blue in the next Marvel film, the upcoming Fantastic Four release. What is the point of changing the color of a well established character? Everyone knows the character is normally orange and he has been since 1961. 

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Mystafo

Mystafo

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On 3/22/2023 at 4:20 PM, sfcityduck said:

Voice over attack on Eternals as a "diverse flop" while running film of Nanjiani, making fun of "Egyptian superhero," etc.  Watch it again.

Broader point is that racism, sexism, and religious hatred are all forms of bigotry.  I'm with Stan Lee on bigotry.

If you say so.

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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On 3/22/2023 at 2:43 PM, Artboy99 said:

 

The Thing is now blue in the next Marvel film, the upcoming Fantastic Four release. What is the point of changing the color of a well established character? Everyone knows the character is normally orange and he has been since 1961. 

In that example, there is no point.  

But that is hardly analogous to casting a black woman, Zendaya, as Gwen despite that Gwen is white in the comics.  The reason for casting Zendaya might include her talent, her beauty, her chemistry with her co-star, and even to make a point about the difference between our society today and our society way back when Gwen was cast as white in the comics and segregation was still a thing. Do you really think any of those reasons are illegit as a reason to cast Gwen as black?  

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Artboy99

Artboy99

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On 3/22/2023 at 3:57 PM, sfcityduck said:

In that example, there is no point.  

But that is hardly analogous to casting a black woman, Zendaya, as Gwen despite that Gwen is white in the comics.  The reason for casting Zendaya might include her talent, her beauty, her chemistry with her co-star, and even to make a point about the difference between our society today and our society way back when Gwen was cast as white in the comics and segregation was still a thing. Do you really think any of those reasons are illegit as a reason to cast Gwen as black?  

All good comments and i like Zendaya. :x 

So it sounds like you would support the casting of Orlando Bloom as T'Challa as he demonstrated excellent chemistry with the lead actress and is a talented actor and is handsome.

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bentbryan

bentbryan

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On 3/22/2023 at 5:07 PM, sfcityduck said:

Has there even been a good Hulk?  If you say "Bill Bixby" I ROFLMAO!  

Worst character ever.

He literally has no goals and nothing to say.

I guess you never watched the show? Although the special effects are hilariously outgunned by todays standards, the original Incredible Hulk series embodied the man/monster I read about in comics as a kid way more than anything put out today.  Everyone has their opinion but to say Bixby’s Hulk was the worst character ever while proclaiming MCU as great is a bit of a head scratcher for me.  

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 3/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Artboy99 said:

All good comments and i like Zendaya. :x 

So it sounds like you would support the casting of Orlando Bloom as T'Challa as he demonstrated excellent chemistry with the lead actress and is a talented actor and is handsome.

Skin color exists, it’s part of our real world,  and it can be important to a story, especially if history or current events are involved. You can’t cast Orlando Bloom in the lead in a movie about Rodney King because King’s skin color and ethnicity are important to his story. The same with T’Challa, his African heritage as leader of a country cut off from European colonialism is important to the story, so T’Challa has to be black. Therefore you can’t cast Orlando Bloom as T’Challa. MJ on the other hand has no specific ethnic background which makes her special. The only thing that makes her character special is her beauty, personality, and courage. MJ could be portrayed by any actor, black white or brown. Her skin color isn’t important because it’s not important to MJ’s story.

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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On 3/22/2023 at 4:47 PM, bentbryan said:

I guess you never watched the show? Although the special effects are hilariously outgunned by todays standards, the original Incredible Hulk series embodied the man/monster I read about in comics as a kid way more than anything put out today.  Everyone has their opinion but to say Bixby’s Hulk was the worst character ever while proclaiming MCU as great is a bit of a head scratcher for me.  

I saw it as it came out.  It was not as entertaining as Wonder Woman or Six Million Dollar Man IMHO. But I acknowledge people liked it as it lasted a few years. 

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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On 3/22/2023 at 8:40 PM, sfcityduck said:

I saw it as it came out.  It was not as entertaining as Wonder Woman or Six Million Dollar Man IMHO. But I acknowledge people liked it as it lasted a few years. 

5 seasons, 80 episodes, 5 TV movies.

Just a tad.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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While the cause of Alonso’s termination is unclear, the sources said, the decision was made by a consortium including Disney Entertainment Co-Chairman Alan Bergman, to whom all of Marvel Studios reports. Alonso’s longtime boss and Marvel chief creative officer Kevin Feige was not involved in the process, another person familiar with the exit added. Feige, who felt mired in an impossible situation, ultimately did not intervene. Alonso was blindsided, another insider added.

 

A representative for Alonso declined to provide comment for this story. Marvel Studios had no comment.

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Mar 22, 2023 5:16pm PT
Inside Victoria Alonso’s Shocking Exit From Marvel Studios
By Matt Donnelly, Adam B. Vary
ROME, ITALY - OCTOBER 24: Victoria Alonso attends the red carpet of the movie "Eternals" during the 16th Rome Film Fest 2021 on October 24, 2021 in Rome, Italy. (Photo by Stefania D'Alessandro/Getty Images)
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At this year’s Academy Awards, Victoria Alonso was overwhelmed.  

The veteran Marvel Studios executive and producer of the nominated film “Argentina, 1985” was stopped on the red carpet, posing for photographers assigned to capture top executives on Hollywood’s big night. But something shocked her.  

“Look at this! Two women!” Alonso said of the female photographers hired for the gig (as in most corners of Hollywood, women are outnumbered by men on the photo line). Emotional, Alonso insisted the pair put down their cameras and pose for a photo with her in front of a giant Oscar statuette. As they all smiled, she told them, “We’ve worked so hard to get here, and we’re not going anywhere.”  


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Eight days later, she was fired as Marvel’s president of physical production, post-production, VFX and animation, three individuals familiar with the matter told Variety. The shakeup came as a surprise to many in show business and within the vast Marvel comic book fandom (a community prominent online and in person at the many multiplexes where the studio releases its films). Her dismissal has raised numerous questions about behind-the-scenes workings at the prized content engine, and with them, another unfavorable news cycle as Disney CEO Bob Iger attempts to stabilize its parent company amid economic unrest. 

While the cause of Alonso’s termination is unclear, the sources said, the decision was made by a consortium including Disney Entertainment Co-Chairman Alan Bergman, to whom all of Marvel Studios reports. Alonso’s longtime boss and Marvel chief creative officer Kevin Feige was not involved in the process, another person familiar with the exit added. Feige, who felt mired in an impossible situation, ultimately did not intervene. Alonso was blindsided, another insider added.

A representative for Alonso declined to provide comment for this story. Marvel Studios had no comment.

Alonso joined Marvel Studios in 2006, three years before Disney acquired the label for $4 billion. Over 17 years, she has been a fixture under chief creative officer Kevin Feige, standing beside Feige’s right hand and co-president Louis D’Esposito. Simultaneously, she worked to become a brand on her own – a rare openly LGBTQ person and woman of color in a visible leadership role, known for her fiery passion and outspokenness over diversity and inclusion in Marvel’s storytelling.  


She has been honored by media watchdogs and visual effects communities alike and is about to publish a memoir about her corporate ascent, the aptly titled “Possibility Is Your Superpower” (which is still set for release at the Disney book label Hyperion Avenue).  

Where, then, in all of the multiverse did this dramatic fracture occur?   

Numerous sources familiar with Marvel pointed to the tremendous pressure the unit has been under over the past few years to deliver compelling content not just to theaters, but in the form of new streaming shows intended to bolster Disney+.  In 2021 and 2022, Marvel unloaded an unprecedented torrent of comic book adventures, releasing 17 titles — seven movies, eight streaming series and two TV specials — over 23 months.

That breakneck distribution schedule, a product of the pandemic and the need to constantly feed Disney+, was not of Alonso’s making, and Marvel was far from the only studio tasked with delivering feature-level content for a newly launched streaming service. But it was Alonso’s job to get each of those titles through Marvel’s gargantuan post-production process, and by the summer of 2022, cracks began to show in the company’s seemingly impervious armor. 


Starting on Reddit, followed by a series of stories published across the internet, visual effects artists began to loudly complain about Marvel’s demanding post-production schedules. Complaints ranged from unrelenting overtime to chronic understaffing to the inability to avoid delivering substandard work due to constantly changing deadlines, but some singled out Alonso as a “kingmaker” who would blacklist artists who have “pissed her off in any way.” 

 

One visual effects artist recently told Variety that the biggest issue for them was Marvel’s inability to provide clear guidelines.  

 

“The show I was on really struggled because it was an established character whose powers they were reconceiving for the MCU,” the artist said on the condition of anonymity. Most complaints, they said, came down to one refrain: “Marvel doesn’t figure mess out beforehand.”  

 

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