Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures 4 4

[media_junkie]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:10 PM, Gatsby77 said:

I thought Marvel established recasting fairly early - given that we've seen three actors play Bruce Banner (and two of those within the MCU proper).

We had two Rhodeys in two Iron Man films.

Rumor has it Harrison Ford is taking over as Thunderbolt Ross.

We even saw three different actresses play Kitty Pryde in the first three X-Men films.

The point?

The idea that Iron Man, Cap, Thor or Wolverine can't be recast without fan (or box office) backlash is hogwash.

If audiences can accept three different Spider-Man actors or three different Batman actors (twice!) within 10 years, they can certainly handle re-castings of the primary Avengers group.

Exactly, by this time everyone and their brother has been conditioned that Super-heroes are recast all the time.

[drotto]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:41 PM, media_junkie said:

Exactly, by this time everyone and their brother has been conditioned that Super-heroes are recast all the time.

And they need to recast if they want the IP to continue. 

[sfcityduck]

On 3/22/2023 at 9:41 AM, media_junkie said:

Exactly, by this time everyone and their brother has been conditioned that Super-heroes are recast all the time.

Yep. The problem is not recasting.  Its the concept of an event driven MCU.  They need to be more creative in their story direction instead of papering over the cracks by merely changing characters.

For me, Spiderman is the success story.  Three different live action takes on the same material with a focus on the human story, and the third take includes a retcon at the end.  Plus a different animated feature film with yet a different take on the material which was super enjoyable.  Spiderman as a concept is stronger for those movies - and it did not matter at all that we had a black Gwen, black Ned, black Nick Fury, Latino Spiderman, SpiderGwen, etc. during the course of those movies.

Folks who complain about diversity are focused on the wrong factor.  What matters is storytelling.  Good storytelling is much better than badly implemented nostalgia and fan service.  

The heading of this thread is an embarrassment and its implication is wrong.

The MCU has tied itself to a formula that has run its course for now.  They should have continued on with more standalone type movies for a while.  But they aren't going to change the formula because they are still making gobs of money:

*  Antman & The Wasp is making more than Antman did. 

* Wakanda Forever made more money than every Thor movie.

.* Spiderman: No Way Home is the no. 3 highest grossing Marvel movie.

* Multiverse of Madness made almost a $1B.

* Thor Love and Thunder made over $750M.

They aren't going in the wrong direction from a monetary perspective, especially given the present state of cinema. But, it is my belief that they are going to hit a wall that just changing characters won't solve. They aren't learning from the mistakes made in the comics.  They are repeating them.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Budget and inflation make those numbers mean something other than you're suggesting, though, hence recent studio shakeups.

[Mystafo]

Him/She Poo

[october]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:36 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Budget and inflation make those numbers mean something other than you're suggesting, though, hence recent studio shakeups.

Not to mention the fact that Disney+ hemmorages money like there is no tomorrow, driven in part by the high costs of the MCU shows. The service loses a billion dollars every quarter. Not exactly sustainable, especially given the decline in movie revenue.

Edited March 22, 2023 by october

[Artboy99]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:52 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Smart Hulk is 100% true to the character’s comic book story.

yes he is, but we certainly don't need to see him as he is depicted and truthfully as a Hulk fan I still have yet to see the Hulk I want to see which is the version who overcomes his opponents with his increase in strength.

I don't want to see him dressed in a sweater, serving up tacos, arm in a sling, posing for photos in a mall, etc. He is physically one of the most powerful Marvel characters let's see it!

[drotto]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:36 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Budget and inflation make those numbers mean something other than you're suggesting, though, hence recent studio shakeups.

Meaning actual tickets sold are down 30% to 50%, given inflation of ticket prices in the range of 25% to 30%.  Add to that the large increase in budgets, and large increase in marketing spends, yes you are now in trouble.

[drotto]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:06 PM, october said:

Not to mention the fact that Disney+ hemmorges money like there is no tomorrow, driven in part by the high costs of the MCU shows. The service loses a billion dollars every quarter. Not exactly sustainable, especially given the decline in movie revenue.

In additon, it seems like D+ is where Disney is hiding loses in general. When they "sell" their films to D+, that transfers the loss from that film division to the streaming division.  It allows them to hide a lot of stuff.

[sfcityduck]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:36 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Budget and inflation make those numbers mean something other than you're suggesting, though, hence recent studio shakeups.

The recent shake-up was apparently because the executive was abusive.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:25 PM, Artboy99 said:

yes he is, but we certainly don't need to see him as he is depicted and truthfully as a Hulk fan I still have yet to see the Hulk I want to see which is the version who overcomes his opponents with his increase in strength.

I don't want to see him dressed in a sweater, serving up tacos, arm in a sling, posing for photos in a mall, etc. He is physically one of the most powerful Marvel characters let's see it!

Dude, we saw the version you speak of in Ang Lee’s Hulk movie, Incredible Hulk, The Avengers, Avengers Age of Ultron, Thor Ragnarok, and for a few minutes in Avengers Infinity War. And you saw him actually fight and throw things as Smart Hulk in the She-Hulk show. 

You saw him pose for photos and serve tacos and have an arm in a sling in one movie and one movie only, Endgame.

Edited March 22, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[TupennyConan]

Ruffalo Hulk aka Smart Hulk is the worst character or actor character combination in the history of cinema.  

[sfcityduck]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:25 AM, drotto said:

Meaning actual tickets sold are down 30% to 50%, given inflation of ticket prices in the range of 25% to 30%.  Add to that the large increase in budgets, and large increase in marketing spends, yes you are now in trouble.

Disney stock is up over 7% on the year to date.  DIS is a consensus "buy" among analysts. 

Why?

Disney revenue for the quarter ending December 31, 2022 was $23.512B, a 7.76% increase year-over-year. Disney revenue for the twelve months ending December 31, 2022 was $84.415B, a 15.66% increase year-over-year. Disney annual revenue for 2022 was $82.722B, a 22.7% increase from 2021.  

It's a tough environment for cinema and theme parks, and they seem to be bouncing back ok.

[drotto]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:44 PM, sfcityduck said:

Disney stock is up over 7% on the year to date.  DIS is a consensus "buy" among analysts. 

Why?

Disney revenue for the quarter ending December 31, 2022 was $23.512B, a 7.76% increase year-over-year. Disney revenue for the twelve months ending December 31, 2022 was $84.415B, a 15.66% increase year-over-year. Disney annual revenue for 2022 was $82.722B, a 22.7% increase from 2021.  

It's a tough environment for cinema and theme parks, and they seem to be bouncing back ok.

Yet, they are laying off 7000 people, and needing to cut $5 billion from the budget. The stock is up slightly with the return of Iger, but still way down from the 150 range it was at like 2 years ago.

 

A company cutting that many jobs, and that much spending is not truly healthy.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:28 PM, drotto said:

In additon, it seems like D+ is where Disney is hiding loses in general. When they "sell" their films to D+, that transfers the loss from that film division to the streaming division.  It allows them to hide a lot of stuff.

Disney was the #1 movie company in the world in 2022 at 4.9 billion, with Avatar its biggest film at 2.3 billion. Universal was a distant 2nd at 3.9 billion with Jurassic World Dominion its biggest film at 1 billion. Paramount was a more distant 3rd at 2 billion with Top Gun Maverick its biggest film at 1.5 billion.

Disney has been the #1 movie company in the world for seven consecutive years.

[Artboy99]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:36 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Dude, we saw the version you speak of in Ang Lee’s Hulk movie, Incredible Hulk, The Avengers, Avengers Age of Ultron, Thor Ragnarok, and for a few minutes in Avengers Infinity War. And you saw him actually fight and throw things as Smart Hulk in the She-Hulk show. 

You saw him pose for photos and serve tacos and have an arm in a sling in one movie and one movie only, Endgame.

I liked:

Ang Lee Hulk scene when he picked up the tank and threw it over the hills

The Avengers when he fought Thor, punched the giant flying thing in the New York battle and "puny god" against Loki

The rest is very "meh"

[drotto]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:08 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Disney was the #1 movie company in the world in 2022 at 4.9 billion, with Avatar its biggest film at 2.3 billion. Universal was a distant 2nd at 3.9 billion with Jurassic World Dominion its biggest film at 1 billion. Paramount was a more distant 3rd at 2 billion with Top Gun Maverick its biggest film at 1.5 billion.

Disney has been the #1 movie company in the world for seven consecutive years.

Irrelevant, they are producing the most content and also have the highest budgets, and highest marketing spends.  Again, they are looking to cut over $5 billon in expenses, because they are losing money. Size matters not. You can be the biggest and still lose money. Avatar was also technically acquired content.  It was produced by James Cameron's company then distributed by Disney.  They aquired the rights with the Fox deal. This is very different from the other completely home grown content.  It is also why it will have a delayed release on D+, while it takes in money from other sources.

[TupennyConan]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:10 PM, sfcityduck said:

The heading of this thread is an embarrassment and its implication is wrong.  Fair enough but the OP vid, despite its flaws & missteps [like complaining about the gals not being sexy enough], makes a fully valid & obvious to all point about the social issues. Issues which could've been addressed more organically. As is also obvious, Marvel Comics has been diverse for a long, long time.  

 They should have continued on with more standalone type movies for a while. This was my point about doing Silver Surfer 4, HULK vs Wolverine, & a WW2 Invaders yarn. Character driven tales that don't involve reality threatening baddies, but would be be loaded with spectacle, & would buy some time - ease the Disney creative teams forward into an MCU with mutants & Sue Storm, MCU without the multiverse mess.   

 

[sfcityduck]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:00 PM, drotto said:

Yet, they are laying off 7000 people, and needing to cut $5 billion from the budget. The stock is up slightly with the return of Iger, but still way down from the 150 range it was at like 2 years ago.

 

A company cutting that many jobs, and that much spending is not truly healthy.

Or its very very big.

You are acting like 7,000 people is a big deal.  While it is to them, its only about 4% of Disney's workforce.  

This is not an Elon Musk level failure where Twitter has laid off over 50% of its workforce or even where Tesla laid off 10% froze hiring and is doing more layoffs soon. 

As for the stock, what entertainment company is where it was 2 years ago? Or tech company?  Elon Musk used to be worth $340B.  Now he fluctuates around half that due to the decreased stock prices of his companies.

Edited March 22, 2023 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:51 PM, TupennyConan said:

Fair enough but the OP vid, despite its flaws & missteps [like complaining about the gals not being sexy enough], makes a fully valid & obvious to all point about the social issues. Issues which could've been addressed more organically. As is also obvious, Marvel Comics has been diverse for a long, long time.  

More accurately, Marvel has been a voice for diversity for a long, long time.  It is the most "woke" (in the correct meaning of that term) comic company.  Here's a Stan's Soapbox from 1968 after the killing of MLK and Robert Kennedy:

Marvel readers, you can be sure, noticed Stan Lee’s support of civil rights.  One reader wrote Stan in 1969 to complain about Marvel’s support for civil rights, ending his letter by stating “I’m not a racist, just a concerned Marvelite who doesn’t want his favorite comic company to be ruined by something that doesn’t concern you as comic publishers.”

Stan’s published response in the letters page of the comic?:  “But, such matters as racism and inequality do concern us, Tim — not just as comic mag artists and writers and publishers, but as human beings. Certainly it’s never been our intention to portray all, or even most, white Americans as hard-core bigots or screaming racists. Maybe it’s just that we think that many people in the land of the free have too long turned their backs or averted their eyes to the more unpleasant things that are going on every day. Maybe we felt we could do something — even within the relatively humble format of what used to be called a ‘comic-book’ – to change things just a bit for the better. If we failed, let’s just say that we’d at least like to have it said of us that — we tried.”

Shortly before his death, Stan posted a video in which he stated: ."Marvel has always been and always will be a reflection of the world right outside our window.  That world may change and evolve, but the one thing that will never change is the way we tell our stories of heroism. Those stories have room for everyone, regardless of their race, gender or color of their skin.  The only things we don’t have room for are hatred, intolerance and bigotry.”

That guy in the video would not have agreed with Stan Lee in 1968 or even today.  

Diverse casting in a Spiderman movie (black Gwen, black Nick Fury, black Ned, SpiderGwen, etc.) doesn't ruin the movie.

It's bad storytelling that ruins a movie.  

The video guy's focus on the diverse casting (or not hot enough females) and not the storytelling tells me more than I want to know about that guy.  His analysis is embarrassingly bad.

Edited March 22, 2023 by sfcityduck