Newsstand vs Direct: Clarity (and maybe less misinformation) Needed 5 5

[valiantman]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:56 PM, Lazyboy said:

That's hilarious, because I own relatively few comics purchased new from comic shops and about 15% of the comics that I bought off the racks are Newsstands. Also, as I've mentioned before, I have thousands of Newsstands that I acquired as back issues, including random junk like these:

So rare that I have more than one and it's not even a superultramegarare regular Newsstand, but an even rarer oddball error.

I'll gladly profit from selling Newsstands, I'm just not going to deceive people to do so.

Funny that your name wasn't mentioned at all, yet, you think it was directed specifically at you.

Hang on a second, I've got a tiny violin playing over here.

[Lazyboy]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, ThothAmon said:

Dude we collect comic books. Who am I to judge who’s a gullible fool?

Well, when somebody believes that newsstand distribution was only 5% of the total sales for an issue when the Direct estimates from reputable sources like Comichron only account for 60% of sales...

[comicwiz]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:29 PM, NP_Gresham said:

BTW if these early diamond price box issues were ‘Whitmans’ , they were not always marked as such. One would think Whitman would want to advertise their own product. It may be that these were simply sold ‘direct’ and the reseller could package them whatever way they want in 3 packs or not.

What is clear to me is these books were not newsstand. They would be on shelves until they sold, there were no returns as per the newsstand.

 

I won't get into what these represent except to call them "multipacks", and that they are on the threshold of scarcity/distribution similar to the pence counterpart if doing a comparison specific to each issue.

It's not possible to compare with other issues of the same period/format, because certain issues (like Star Wars 2) would have had a higher production than issues like Howard the Duck (HTD) 13. It isn't precise, but we have a method of determining this using the metrics assigned by the census. A quick check as an example, has HTD13 35¢ price tests showing 24 graded, where Star Wars 1 35¢ price test has 307 showing. Star Wars 2 35¢ price test with 146.

One of the clues is that these were run at the same time as the newsstand, test price (35¢) variant and pence priced counterparts. One way to check on their ratio (I estimate it to be roughly 1:30 of these multipack diamond price to newsstand), is by using feeBay, and running searches to see how many newsstand show up in comparison. Having just run a quick check on yours (Cap 110), it's still within that range, with a similarly low population of pence editions, and test price variants.

The multipack shown above contains Howard the Duck 13, which for years was regarded as one of the tougher of the 35¢ price test variants. I haven't kept up on that as closely, but feel it's not anywhere close to the abundance of Star Wars 1, and might fall somewhere in the same approximate range of Iron Fist 14's (quick census check shows 74 IF 14 35¢ price tests)

Speaking of Star Wars 1, the other clue we have is that of the same multipack format below, we have issues 2-4, no issue 1. Interestingly, there never was a pence price for Star Wars 1.

Edited March 22, 2023 by comicwiz

[Lazyboy]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:01 PM, valiantman said:

Funny that your name wasn't mentioned at all, yet, you think it was directed specifically at you.

Hang on a second, I've got a tiny violin playing over here.

Because there are so many other people who understand the topic and try to correct the misconceptions.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:01 PM, Lazyboy said:

Well, when somebody believes that newsstand distribution was only 5% of the total sales for an issue when the Direct estimates from reputable sources like Comichron only account for 60% of sales...

Could you expand on this for us Lazyboy and show some example workings to bring this point to life?

[ThothAmon]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:58 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

  

I resemble that remark. 

[PeterPark]

On 3/22/2023 at 4:02 PM, comicwiz said:

I won't get into what these represent except to call them "multipacks", and that they are on the threshold of scarcity/distribution similar to the pence counterpart if doing a comparison specific to each issue.

It's not possible to compare with other issues of the same period/format, because certain issues (like Star Wars 2) would have had a higher production than issues like Howard the Duck (HTD) 13. It isn't precise, but we have a method of determining this using the metrics assigned by the census. A quick check as an example, has HTD13 35¢ price tests showing 24 graded, where Star Wars 1 35¢ price test has 307 showing. Star Wars 2 35¢ price test with 146.

One of the clues is that these were run at the same time as the newsstand, test price (35¢) variant and pence priced counterparts. One way to check on their ratio (I estimate it to be roughly 1:30 of these multipack diamond price to newsstand), is by using feeBay, and running searches to see how many newsstand show up in comparison. Having just run a quick check on yours (Cap 110), it's still within that range, with a similarly low population of pence editions, and test price variants.

The multipack shown above contains Howard the Duck 13, which for years was regarded as one of the tougher of the 35¢ price test variants. I haven't kept up on that as closely, but feel it's not anywhere close to the abundance of Star Wars 1, and might fall somewhere in the same approximate range of Iron Fist 14's (quick census check shows 74 IF 14 35¢ price tests)

Speaking of Star Wars 1, the other clue we have is that of the same multipack format below, we have issues 2-4, no issue 1. Interestingly, there never was a pence price for Star Wars 1.

Value is what gets price variants graded. Howard the Duck 13 has a good amount and IF 14 has a lot, as does SW 1 as compared to 2-4, but why mention them when showing the diamond variants? In my experience, Howard the Duck 15 was the hardest 35 cent price variant to find, but all the Howards are tough. SW 1 and Marvel Super Action 2 seem to be among the most plentiful, but much, much harder-to-find than the diamond variants.

[comicwiz]

On 3/22/2023 at 4:29 PM, PeterPark said:

Value is what gets price variants graded. Howard the Duck 13 has a good amount and IF 14 has a lot, as does SW 1 as compared to 2-4, but why mention them when showing the diamond variants? In my experience, Howard the Duck 15 was the hardest 35 cent price variant to find, but all the Howards are tough. SW 1 and Marvel Super Action 2 seem to be among the most plentiful, but much, much harder-to-find than the diamond variants.

You're fairly new here. Before your time, there was a heated tug of war match for HTD 13 by a contingent of test price variant focus collectors on these boards, I can assure you that given it's a key appearance, and the pre-history of it being one of the more difficult PV's for completists of that early era, we should have seen a lot more if they were out there. Even low-mid grade, which have showed-up over time. The way values have paced since is a completely different story, but it is contextually inaccurate to describe it as something that wouldn't have had value enough to be graded.

[Lazyboy]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:18 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Could you expand on this for us Lazyboy and show some workings to bring this point to life?

The first time I broke it down (over six years ago ) was in your thread! Well, one of the million.

Starting here and continuing for most of that page.

I really should organize all the information and analysis I've posted over the years and create something I can copy/paste every time this topic comes up.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

The first time I broke it down (over six years ago ) was in your thread! Well, one of the million.

Christ Lazyboy, I can't remember last week most days let alone six years ago. And the needs of the many pence threads outweigh the needs of the few. 

On 3/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

Starting here and continuing for most of that page.

Right, I'll start reading now. 

On 3/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

I really should organize all the information and analysis I've posted over the years and create something I can copy/paste every time this topic comes up.

Do. Data tends to beat a verbal kick in the nads in my experience. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:57 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

On 3/22/2023 at 8:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

Starting here and continuing for most of that page.

Right, I'll start reading now. 

Jesus that thread's boring. Who started that shi.....

Oh. One of mine. Well, that's about right then.

@valiantman Data is right up your street, isn't it. You wouldn't dive into all that stuff in the link and see if Lazyboy has presented a reasonable argument for discounting some of the low % Chuck NS numbers would you? Pretty please? I would do it myself but Criminal Minds is on and I want to see what the unsubs are up to 

[Lazyboy]

On 3/22/2023 at 4:05 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Jesus that thread's boring. Who started that shi.....

Oh. One of mine. Well, that's about right then.

@valiantman Data is right up your street, isn't it. You wouldn't dive into all that stuff in the link and see if Lazyboy has presented a reasonable argument for discounting some of the low % Chuck NS numbers would you? Pretty please? I would do it myself but Criminal Minds is on and I want to see what the unsubs are up to 

We already did that last year here. I'm still not sure how Greg was apparently unaware of Statements of Ownership (a significant source of the comic book numbers that are publicly available) before that, but we cleared up that part.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 3/22/2023 at 9:24 PM, Lazyboy said:

We already did that last year here. I'm still not sure how Greg was apparently unaware of Statements of Ownership (a significant source of the comic book numbers that are publicly available) before that, but we cleared up that part.

Crimminal Minds isn't so good tonight. So, using this data, what would you say the ratio between newsstand and direct for ASM was in 2011. If you had a gun to your head, I mean. Or was threatened with a two week stay in the Gold Reading Room.

[paqart]

I just read through the thread LazyBoy linked to and realize we've already gone through everything we're saying here. There was even an agreement of sorts, now apparently discarded.

One thing I can add is that after a year of buying newsstands since the previous thread, my buying habits have changed. I am no longer buying every newsstand in sight, regardless how cheap it is. Instead, I only get comics from certain titles, or issues of particular interest. Overall, newsstand prices have gone up but not as much as Mile High's prices. Now, what was $10 last year is between $20-$30. At the same time, what was $80 can be $500 or more. I think this is an indicator that as collectors started buying newsstands, they became less available, not more. In my own experience, it is definitely more difficult to find the key issues I want, though I do see more of the less interesting newsstands than I did last year.

It looks like increased interest in newsstands has increased supply of filler issues and reduced the supply of key issues. So, among fillers, some have gone from a 0:100 availability to 1:20, while keys have gone from 1:50 to 1:100 or less.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:16 PM, paqart said:

I just read through the thread LazyBoy linked to and realize we've already gone through everything we're saying here. There was even an agreement of sorts, now apparently discarded.

One thing I can add is that after a year of buying newsstands since the previous thread, my buying habits have changed. I am no longer buying every newsstand in sight, regardless how cheap it is. Instead, I only get comics from certain titles, or issues of particular interest. Overall, newsstand prices have gone up but not as much as Mile High's prices. Now, what was $10 last year is between $20-$30. At the same time, what was $80 can be $500 or more. I think this is an indicator that as collectors started buying newsstands, they became less available, not more. In my own experience, it is definitely more difficult to find the key issues I want, though I do see more of the less interesting newsstands than I did last year.

It looks like increased interest in newsstands has increased supply of filler issues and reduced the supply of key issues. So, among fillers, some have gone from a 0:100 availability to 1:20, while keys have gone from 1:50 to 1:100 or less.

I'm glad there have been opportunities, those are the ones I'm reluctant to obtain due to price of inability in the wild, but I'm glad you find enough to be selective!

 

[Get Marwood & I]

You know when you use Google to translate words and phrases into different languages - is there an option to translate ADAMANTIUM into English?

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:28 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

You know when you use Google to translate words and phrases into different languages - is there an option to translate ADAMANTIUM into English?

Meaning my broke arse can't afford to be "selective" when it comes to newsstands

If it helps I realize he's saying "less available" wasn't my underlying point though.

 

[Cat]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:28 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

You know when you use Google to translate words and phrases into different languages - is there an option to translate ADAMANTIUM into English?

It's what the 'crack!' option on polls does. Select that, and you can too can understand Addy. 

 

Spoiler

 

[ThothAmon]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:28 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

is there an option to translate ADAMANTIUM into English?

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 3/22/2023 at 8:21 PM, ThothAmon said:

 

Now that I understood 😂 I'm not perfect guys, I guess kav used to point that out all the time haha 😂 but I'll get by somehow someway serenity now