Minor keys. Opinions ?? 1 1

[The lips]

So…due to financial restrictions, I tend to class myself as a minor key collector, which got me thinking on what criteria meets being categorised as a ‘minor key’ and when does it become a major key ??!

I predominantly collect ASM and in my collection I class my minor keys as first Rhino, Prowler, issues 17, 31, 33, 50, 121, 122, 238, 252 etc. 

What about issues such as 39,40 and are these classed as minors or not ? Also is 300 a major key or just a minor ??

To all you fellow minor key collectors, what’s your thoughts and favourites?! 

[D2]

So I guess this is my problem, which is something you elude to as well…
What are minor keys?

1st appearances of villains?

1st costume of…

2nd appearances? 

Popular covers?

I just get the feeling that the goal posts are constantly changing with the phrase ‘keys’ that I don’t really understand. 

To answer your question, I would assume any major villain first appearance would definitely be a key, whether it is minor or major is up to you. 

But I collect books that I like, and a lot in my collection are not keys, simply because, no one is looking at my collection. No one knows what I own and no one is judging my collecting like, why don’t you have this and why don’t you have that?

And for the 1 person that does ever see my collection, and if they do indeed say that, I believe they will ALWAYS say that, regardless of what is in my collection. 

Collect what you like. 

[The lips]

On 4/2/2023 at 12:33 PM, D2 said:

So I guess this is my problem, which is something you elude to as well…
What are minor keys?

1st appearances of villains?

1st costume of…

2nd appearances? 

Popular covers?

I just get the feeling that the goal posts are constantly changing with the phrase ‘keys’ that I don’t really understand. 

To answer your question, I would assume any major villain first appearance would definitely be a key, whether it is minor or major is up to you. 

But I collect books that I like, and a lot in my collection are not keys, simply because, no one is looking at my collection. No one knows what I own and no one is judging my collecting like, why don’t you have this and why don’t you have that?

And for the 1 person that does ever see my collection, and if they do indeed say that, I believe they will ALWAYS say that, regardless of what is in my collection. 

Collect what you like. 

Yeah I definitely collect what I like and have no intention to sell and not interested in making a Buck. 
Only person who sees my collection is my 7 year old boy and he loves every single one regardless. 
only person who judges is myself and whilst I’d love a first appearance green goblin, I’m currently happy with the 2nd or the death of. 

Staying on the goblin, do issues 39 / 40 class as minor keys !! I love the story and the reveal of each other so maybe it is !!? 
 

it’s entertaining suppose trying to categorise !! 

[Gaard]

Who has the power to designate which books are keys?

[Black_Adam]

I think the market also helps identify minor keys. Using your ASM example, #37 and #38 are far more affordable in the same grade (say CGC 8.0) than #39. So, in my opinion, that shows collectors consider that issue a key and will pay more for it. Scarcity in grade can also be a factor, so I wouldn't use too high a grade for comparison if using this methodology.

[Jaylam]

From my experience, it's a major key if I want it and a minor key if I'm trying to sell it!

[The lips]

On 4/2/2023 at 1:31 PM, Gaard said:

Who has the power to designate which books are keys?

Nobody. But it’s all about people’s opinions, which after all is what online forums are all about. 

[1950's war comics]

ASM 39 is the greatest Marvel comic cover of all time

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/2/2023 at 9:52 AM, The lips said:

On 4/2/2023 at 7:31 AM, Gaard said:

Who has the power to designate which books are keys?

Nobody. But it’s all about people’s opinions, which after all is what online forums are all about. 

Or I could see how it is a "train of thought" issue. Basically 1st app are maj/min by if you can afford them or not, and maybe situational #39/40 ASM are the same.

As far as impact of 1st app or plot, there are the tried and true 1st app and plot that have been popular a long time, that have always been major despite value. Remember ASM 122 and 121 only really spiked within the last 7 to 8 years, imo. Always been valued as major is what I mean. Then there are books like ASM #316 that have been clued in or set apart since their release day, that always had a special place in hearts for the cover, but only recently after 30 some odd years saw any kind of "spike that lasted!"

In short, you'll have to rate maj/min as it will be your opinion based on experience and awareness, when born introduced and etc. There is nothing wrong with asking the question, but some that are long running are better than "some flash in the pan moderns?" yes to that.

I thought that might be what this thread was, just #39 &#40 didn't used to be so "valued" and can it be trusted to "remain the same" over time. Guess is as good as mine, although probably more a chance than most moderns, we'll see  

Edited April 2, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

To piggy back on what I said?

ASM #39 was collected or posted a lot more than #40 when I got here 6 years ago, but #40 was sometimes picked up to complete the run, similar to #121 &122.

I guess you may be asking how they were thought of before everyone was buying everything, and it all became convoluted, as one big buy everything  

Which I totally get.

If I had to pick between the 2 based on my experience #39 is the maj and #40 is the minor, due to just what others collected more before any run up. 1st traditional artist, a legend, used to add a lot more wait, but with your McFarlanes and sometimes Hughes or Jim Lee doing the circuit? We have had buzz for such criteria of collecting. The next generation is left to your: Dell Otto, Momoko, and Artgerm  and I'm not sure how long that niche to collecting will spur that to keep going, but hopefully  

[The lips]

On 4/2/2023 at 4:12 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

To piggy back on what I said?

ASM #39 was collected or posted a lot more than #40 when I got here 6 years ago, but #40 was sometimes picked up to complete the run, similar to #121 &122.

I guess you may be asking how they were thought of before everyone was buying everything, and it all became convoluted, as one big buy everything  

Which I totally get.

If I had to pick between the 2 based on my experience #39 is the maj and #40 is the minor, due to just what others collected more before any run up. 1st traditional artist, a legend, used to add a lot more wait, but with your McFarlanes and sometimes Hughes or Jim Lee doing the circuit? We have had buzz for such criteria of collecting. The next generation is left to your: Dell Otto, Momoko, and Artgerm  and I'm not sure how long that niche to collecting will spur that to keep going, but hopefully  

I definitely prefer 39 to 40, though love both. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:17 AM, The lips said:

I definitely prefer 39 to 40, though love both. 

Lol sorry for the long post, I think key is a level headed term, but when it comes to maj or minor and with all the run up? I believe the line is blurred a bit. We used to have reasons laid out in over street so I get the train of thought and could give insight to the old stuff, but with all the apps touting everything it gets kind of blurred.

I agree they're ones I need or don't have, and would want and #39 catches the eye.

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[Robot Man]

On 4/2/2023 at 5:31 AM, Gaard said:

Who has the power to designate which books are keys?

The ones with the biggest wallets? 

[lizards2]

I'm a run collector, so I don't care.

[Lazyboy]

On 4/2/2023 at 4:19 AM, The lips said:

So…due to financial restrictions, I tend to class myself as a minor key collector, which got me thinking on what criteria meets being categorised as a ‘minor key’ and when does it become a major key ??!

I predominantly collect ASM and in my collection I class my minor keys as first Rhino, Prowler, issues 17, 31, 33, 50, 121, 122, 238, 252 etc. 

What about issues such as 39,40 and are these classed as minors or not ? Also is 300 a major key or just a minor ??

To all you fellow minor key collectors, what’s your thoughts and favourites?! 

There's no split between major and minor. It's a scale. The Prowler is not Venom. Venom is not Spider-Man. The death of Gwen Stacy is none of those.

Where an issue sits on the scale is slightly based on personal perspective, but objectivity plays its part.

Also, it has nothing to do with money.  A high-tier key with a million copies will likely be worth less than some random non-key with a popular cover.

[Off Panel]

As many have said, there are no hard and fast rules for distinguishing major and minor keys.

Having said that, here are my opinions:

1) First appearances are often considered keys and the status of the key is directly linked to the status of the character being introduced.*

• The first appearances of A-List heroes (Spider-man, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, etc) and A-list villains (Doctor Octopus, the Green Goblin, Dr Doom, Kang) are usually considered major keys.
• The first appearances of B-List heroes (Daredevil, Star Lord, Captain Marvel, etc) and B-list villains (The Lizard, Electro, Sabretooth, Bullseye) may just be considered keys, without a "major" or "minor' descriptor.
• The first appearances of C-List heroes (Nova, Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, etc) and C-list villains (Molten Man, Shocker, Hammerhead, Gladiator) may be considered minor keys.
• Once you get to the D-List (Mindworm, Stegron, White Rabbit, Will o' the Wisp), it may be debatable as to whether these are keys at all (except on a speculator's YouTube channel).

2) Books famous for their storylines (Amazing Spider-man 96-98, Daredevil 181, X-Men 137, etc) tend to be minor keys, unless the story destroys your world (Amazing Spider-man 121).

3) Peripheral changes to a character (new name, new costume, etc) tend to be minor keys if they are keys at all.

4) Things that have more to do with creators than characters (first Frank Miller Daredevil, first McFarlane Spider-man, etc) tend to be minor keys if they are keys at all.

5) First appearances in cameo (choose your favorite term if you dislike that nomenclature) can be major keys, but usually not as major as the first full appearance.

6) Famous covers tend to be minor keys.

Of course, books may have a confluence of factors. Amazing Spider-man 129 introduces an A-list villain (the Punisher) AND has a famous cover AND introduces a B-list, some would say C-list villain (the Jackal). The more things a book brings to the table, the more it moves toward being a major key. 

Also, things like scarcity and price can elevate a book beyond its humble origins. I would argue (don't hate me) that both Ghost Rider and Moon Knight are B-List heroes, but low census counts in high grade have helped push their books into the realm of major Bronze Age keys.

 

*Note: I'm not throwing shade on any heroes or villains here. I love Daredevil and Nova and Bullseye and I treasure my first appearance of Mindworm in ASM 138, but there is a hierarchy to our heroes. You may disagree with where I slot people and that's okay. I welcome other opinions.

[Off Panel]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:31 AM, Gaard said:

Who has the power to designate which books are keys?

Why, "influencers" of course! Just ask 'em...

Also, first appearance of White Vision: MAJOR KEY! (Because he changed color? Or maybe because he lost his color? Oh wait, I remember: Because I have twelve of them to sell!!)

[ThothAmon]

121, 122 and 50 are all major Spider-Man keys in my book  

 

[The lips]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:12 PM, ThothAmon said:

121, 122 and 50 are all major Spider-Man keys in my book  

 

Good !! I own all 3. 
 

I always had it in my head that 121 and 122 were minors with 50 scraping into the majors !! Only my opinion which is what I sort of based the thread upon, different opinions. 
 

[Off Panel]

On 4/3/2023 at 1:12 PM, ThothAmon said:

121, 122 and 50 are all major Spider-Man keys in my book  

I completely agree.

I listed 121 as the exception to my rule opinion that storyline keys are generally minor keys, and 122 is the second half of the story. 

And 50 hits two big buttons: first appearance of an A-list villain and classic cover.