Recent Tradd Moore Doc Strange drop 2 2

[Michael Browning]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:39 PM, JC25427N said:

Sometimes I feel like we should split the forum into "Original Comic Art Collecting" and "Original Comic Art Investing" 

If anyone says they buy art and don’t look at it as an investment or say they don’t care if they get their money back when they resell it, they’re lying. Original art costs too much cash to not consider it an investment.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Michael Browning

[Sean I]

I don’t know that’s pretty strong language.  Some of my primary interests are niche within a niche hobby.  I know I likely wouldn’t see much of a return for quite awhile and even then risk a generational shift in interests.  There’s also legions of commission focused collectors who are likely aware they would see a negative return as well in the short and medium terms.  

[Rick2you2]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:39 PM, Michael Browning said:

If anyone says they buy art and don’t look at it as an investment or say they don’t care if they get their money back when they resell it, they’re lying. Original art costs too much cash to not consider it an investment.

Uhh… no. After 40 years, I still haven’t sold anything. But, I also won’t spend much on art; only play money. 

[Yo Kuri]

Hi everyone! Fun convo! This is my first post.
I understand where everyone is coming from based on their perspectives. Here’s my POV.

I love and own Tradd’s art. I was also lucky enough to buy a DS page. It is probably my one and done and is NFS forever. Therefore, take my opinion with a massive grain of salt.

Based on what I observe in the market, I think these prices will hold. As Felix noted in his drop email, Tradd’s Silver Surfer Black pages sell for as much as $30k in private deals. This is true. There are multiple well-funded buyers and the inventory held by collectors who would sell at that price level seems to be drying up. If you are a serious collector of Tradd’s work, the prices in this sale seem reasonable, with many stunning pages sold under $10,000. In my opinion, Tradd leveled up from SSB and the art is better.

So, are these pages tulip bulbs? My best guess in the near to medium term is no. In the long term we’re all dead. I honestly don’t care if the price drops over any time frame. I love my page for the artwork. This is going on my wall. I will only break glass in case of an emergency.

Can we also give the rep and the artist some credit for providing less expensive opportunities for fans of his work? The first page of Dr. Strange was an abstract masterpiece and was sold for only $2,000. There was a beautiful DPS landscape with Doc in it (18x24!) that sold for $8,000. There were sketch covers at $200. All of these could’ve been priced higher.

People don’t seem to have a problem with paying collectors or dealers big money for crudely drawn nostalgia pages by lesser artists than Tradd. Wouldn’t you rather see a great artist get paid really well for superb and innovative work? Tradd or Trimpe? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your call bro…

Many of these are points that have probably been made or considered. Apologies if I am being redundant or annoying. Best wishes and happy collecting!

Yo

 

[cloud cloddie]

On 4/29/2023 at 1:39 PM, Michael Browning said:

If anyone says they buy art and don’t look at it as an investment or say they don’t care if they get their money back when they resell it, they’re lying. Original art costs too much cash to not consider it an investment.

1000 to you may not be 1000 to someone else. I’d imagine the numbers are looked at differently when it’s 50% of your discretionary budget vs .1%. 

On 4/29/2023 at 1:56 PM, Sean- said:

 There’s also legions of commission focused collectors who are likely aware they would see a negative return as well in the short and medium terms.  

Yup. I’m for sure at least mindful of ROI when buying published art. But not on commissions. I’m positive I’d lose money on 99% of the commissions I have, and I’m okay with that. 

[Michael Browning]

On 4/29/2023 at 5:29 PM, cloud cloddie said:

1000 to you may not be 1000 to someone else. I’d imagine the numbers are looked at differently when it’s 50% of your discretionary budget vs .1%. 

Yup. I’m for sure at least mindful of ROI when buying published art. But not on commissions. I’m positive I’d lose money on 99% of the commissions I have, and I’m okay with that. 

Nah, Rich people look at $1000 like I look at my payday. They don't just throw money away with abandon. It's how they stay rich. ;)

Believe me, if something happens and you NEED to sell, you are NOT going to want to sell below what you have in it.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Michael Browning
Fixed a comma.

[KirbyCollector]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:39 PM, Michael Browning said:

If anyone says they buy art and don’t look at it as an investment or say they don’t care if they get their money back when they resell it, they’re lying

When I started buying, I bought because it seemed like a cooler way to appreciate comics. It felt truly special to be holding THE page from a book read and enjoyed by millions... that was the hook. I had no idea whether I would get my money back, to the point where I *ahem* told white lies to my wife about how much I spent on this page or that page. This was in hindsight REALLLY stupid but the art appreciated and my wife enjoyed the fruits of some sales in the form of a home, so it worked out. So we fools are out there

[JC25427N]

We should all just drop the pretense then and start talking more honestly, starting renaming some threads

"the OFFICIAL 'this week in your ORIGINAL ART investment portfolio' thread"

"new to OA investing,  Advice, tips?"

"how about one little thread for vintage illustration investments?"

"New podcast/video from Felix Art Brokerage (UPDATED 1/3/17!)"

We're all just bored of buying ETFs at the end of the day

 

But yeah jokes aside, I would agree for most people and especially above a certain price point (relative to each person of course) theres some consideration as what ROI the piece could bring, but the extremely strong version of the claim as you put it (or at least how I interpreted it from what you said) that "investing" is the number one intent/priority of every person who buys original art (meaning that no one would ever buy a piece if they thought they would lose money on it) and anyone who says otherwise is lying, I just don't agree.

Edited April 29, 2023 by JC25427N
some clarifications

[cloud cloddie]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:55 PM, Michael Browning said:

Nah, Rich people look at $1000 like I look at my payday. They don't just throw money away with abandon. It's how they stay rich. ;)

Believe me, if something happens and you NEED to sell, you are NOT going to want to sell below what you have in it.

Not being overly concerned with getting a huge (or any) ROI is a far cry from throwing money away, especially if you’ll have no NEED to sell. 
It’s whatever. I just don’t agree with the idea that everyone is going into every purchase looking at investment. 

[alxjhnsn]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:39 PM, Michael Browning said:

If anyone says they buy art and don’t look at it as an investment or say they don’t care if they get their money back when they resell it, they’re lying. Original art costs too much cash to not consider it an investment.

I have to disagree. I have lots of commissions that will be difficult for my heirs to sell for any amount. They are for my pleasure and to support the artist; that's payback enough for me. Even the printed pages that I have are not the ones that most people will want. 

I really don't care what the girls get from selling the collection. I'll be dead and there are other assets of more value to them.

I consider my spend here similar to the spend of my friends on their golf course memberships, lessons, and other expenses. That money is gone and so is what I spent on comic art.

[Michael Browning]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:27 PM, JC25427N said:

We should all just drop the pretense then and start talking more honestly, starting renaming some threads

"the OFFICIAL 'this week in your ORIGINAL ART investment portfolio' thread"

"new to OA investing,  Advice, tips?"

"how about one little thread for vintage illustration investments?"

"New podcast/video from Felix Art Brokerage (UPDATED 1/3/17!)"

We're all just bored of buying ETFs at the end of the day

 

But yeah jokes aside, I would agree for most people and especially above a certain price point (relative to each person of course) theres some consideration as what ROI the piece could bring, but the extremely strong version of the claim as you put it (or at least how I interpreted it from what you said) that "investing" is the number one intent/priority of every person who buys original art (meaning that no one would ever buy a piece if they thought they would lose money on it) and anyone who says otherwise is lying, I just don't agree.

Nope. I'm not saying that is anyone's intent when they buy OA; I'm saying that no matter how much we love this stuff and never intend to ever sell it, we all are aware of how much we spend on it and none of us wants or intends to sell below what we paid. We all know that, like comic books, original art goes up in value and we know that going in. Original art isn't a car that we expect to drop in value the minute we get it. No one wants to lose cash.

Like a lot of collectors, I buy art because I enjoy owning a piece of a comic that I love, but I also know that whatever I spend, whether it be $50 or $5000, one of these days, I or someone in my family will sell my art and I don't want it given away or sold at a loss. I do hope it brings in some sort of profit one of these days for me in retirement -- or for my family after I'm gone.

[Michael Browning]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:57 PM, alxjhnsn said:

I have to disagree. I have lots of commissions that will be difficult for my heirs to sell for any amount. They are for my pleasure and to support the artist; that's payback enough for me. Even the printed pages that I have are not the ones that most people will want. 

I really don't care what the girls get from selling the collection. I'll be dead and there are other assets of more value to them.

I consider my spend here similar to the spend of my friends on their golf course memberships, lessons, and other expenses. That money is gone and so is what I spent on comic art.

I stand corrected, then, because you have said that before and I truly believe you mean it. But, you are not the norm in this hobby, that's for sure.

[JC25427N]

 

On 4/29/2023 at 7:08 PM, Michael Browning said:

Nope. I'm not saying that is anyone's intent when they buy OA; I'm saying that no matter how much we love this stuff and never intend to ever sell it, we all are aware of how much we spend on it and none of us wants or intends to sell below what we paid. We all know that, like comic books, original art goes up in value and we know that going in. Original art isn't a car that we expect to drop in value the minute we get it. No one wants to lose cash.

Absolutely, I agree with that. I think where we disagree is that I believe there are people who do not care about or are at least willing to risk not making their money back should they ever be forced to sell (Just to clarify again, for at least some pieces. For me personally, I do have a price point where if I'm spending above a certain amount I wouldn't be comfortable making the purchase unless I was confident in the ROI if I had to sell it. But below that price point there are many pieces I've bought or overspent on that I know I won't be breaking even on if I have to sell them). Although it seems you are willing to believe there is at least one such person based on your recent replies, so I guess we just disagree on how common/uncommon that belief is. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by JC25427N
expanding on one point

[vodou]

This conversation is about as newsworthy as water is wet.

[JC25427N]

On 4/29/2023 at 7:52 PM, vodou said:

This conversation is about as newsworthy as water is wet.

https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/facts-about-water#:~:text=Yes%2C of course the most,least in the liquid state. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by JC25427N

[alxjhnsn]

On 4/29/2023 at 6:12 PM, Michael Browning said:

I stand corrected, then, because you have said that before and I truly believe you mean it. But, you are not the norm in this hobby, that's for sure.

And generally not the norm per my kids!

[Rick2you2]

 

On 4/29/2023 at 7:12 PM, Michael Browning said:

I stand corrected, then, because you have said that before and I truly believe you mean it. But, you are not the norm in this hobby, that's for sure.

He really isn’t the only one, although the bulk of my collection is published art. I buy what I buy because for me, it’s fun, and I really don’t care what they will one day be worth. In many cases, they represent memories I like of meeting an artist or other people. In others, I just like enjoying them for what they are. Let me add that I would not mind if their value dropped, even though I have a few I overpaid for. A price drop means I can buy more. On the other hand, I don’t spend extra funds on some things other people love. No MB’s, BMW’s or other luxury cars, thank you (I got that out of my system when I was young). I consider foodies to be absurd. To me, it’s just nutrients. Travel? Been there, or don’t particularly care (one of my earliest memories of Rome was trying to catch lizards in the Circus Maximus). And the kids will do fine, guaranteed. So no, the money really doesn’t matter at all.

[Dirtcheap31]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:55 PM, Michael Browning said:

Nah, Rich people look at $1000 like I look at my payday. They don't just throw money away with abandon. It's how they stay rich. ;)

Believe me, if something happens and you NEED to sell, you are NOT going to want to sell below what you have in it.

Agree with you but I will say those times when a grail piece for you comes up I am sometimes willing to move things at or below what I paid because I don’t want to put new cash into the “wall” unless it’s it is truly something special to me 

[Lobster Janson]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:01 PM, Rick2you2 said:

Uhh… no. After 40 years, I still haven’t sold anything. But, I also won’t spend much on art; only play money. 

Nearly 20 years of collecting and sold 8 pages and traded 3 out of over 400 pages in the collection. And wish I never sold the 8 pages. The money received does not replace the pleasure of being able to look at the art. If at the end of my life the art has zero value, I'm fine with that as I bought if for myself and to enjoy now and every day. Not one piece was ever bought with investing in the back of my mind. For me it's a hobby and not a business/investment.

[gumbydarnit]

When the dust settles and the final bids are in on the next heritage auction. If you strip nostalgia away and look at art for its aesthetic value put their 12k 8k pieces up against Tradd’s 12k 8k art and I think you’ll find Tradd's work will stand up to those pieces at the same price points and may even surpass them. I think that the lovers of Tradd’s art really do feel that his work is superior to the other options at those price points. “They buy what they love.” The number one rule of comic art.

Of course if you don’t love Tradd artistic style, you’ll think the prices are way too high, which is fine we all have differing tastes. That’s what makes the hobby great.

Disclosure  - I’m a Tradd fan!
 

Edited May 2, 2023 by gumbydarnit