A discussion on Artificial Intelligence and how it's going to affect our industry. 3 3

[Lazyboy]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:25 PM, VintageComics said:

What does this have to do with this discussion?

Nothing and this is just a thinly-veiled attempt to bring a Water Cooler topic to Comics General for... some reason?

[VintageComics]

On 9/3/2023 at 10:34 AM, Old Fashion PB and J said:

That AI comic shared is at best complete trash. The art is horrific, it lacks, well anything. Maybe there is a future for it, but I am certainly not in that market.

So was most GA art in the GA. 

It still sold like wildfire and spawned an entire industry even though much of it was krepe. 

Next. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:27 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

The consensus was that we will have some form or general AI in FIVE YEARS.

Thanks for that post. That validates my own thoughts. 

In my mind the timeline was by the end of the decade at the latest, if not sooner due to the unpredictability of progress. But not later. 

This is what I wrote in the movie forum:

It's implications can't be overstated. Before the end of this decade, life will be entirely different than anything we've known. Mark my words. 

Wonder how I came to the same conclusion as them?

On 9/4/2023 at 11:27 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

There were debates about whether a general AI would/should have First Amendment rights. 

Now THAT is a necessary debate to be had and one I'd never thought of. Great insight. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:31 PM, Lazyboy said:

On 9/3/2023 at 8:25 PM, VintageComics said:

What does this have to do with this discussion?

Nothing and this is just a thinly-veiled attempt to bring a Water Cooler topic to Comics General for... some reason?

This is Comics General. We are GENERALLY DISCUSSING COMICS...comic art to be more specific. 

@CGC Mike

I've pointed out to you many examples of Lazyboy trolling me.

He adds NOTHING to my discussions and only enters to disparage me. 

Why is he still allowed to do it? Do you need 1000 examples to make my point? or should the dozen or so I've made be sufficient? 

[Lazyboy]

I'm sure Mike can see how much of this thread is even tangentially comics-related and who is trolling him.

As related to the alleged topic and as already mentioned by others, the example provided is awful and there's no threat to anybody with talent right now.

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:27 AM, Lazyboy said:

I'm sure Mike can see how much of this thread is even tangentially comics-related and who is trolling him.

As related to the alleged topic and as already mentioned by others, the example provided is awful and there's no threat to anybody with talent right now.

Thank you for your conclusions. I wonder if ALL the people discussing AI are in on the conspiracy or just the ones who disagree with you. 

I'm sure you'll be right at some point. Now please stop trolling me. Thanks. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VintageComics

[namisgr]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:51 PM, VintageComics said:

Is AI learning more or less each day?

Machine learning is used for well defined applications for science and biomedicine.  The learning is restricted to a circumscribed topic that provides functional value for scientific discovery and patient care.  To imply these applications have some kind of continuous learning capability that extends beyond their plug-in use for restoration of lost brain function is wild exaggeration.

Here's an example culled from the General Science thread in the WC.  It describes recent use of brain machine interfaces to enable patients who suffer facial paralysis and so can no longer speak to communicate speech via computer.  Biocompatible microelectrode arrays are placed on the surface of the region of motor cortex that normally for all of us converts speech phonetics into the motor output that moves facial muscles comprising the act of speech.  The machine learning is used to decode neural activity into the phonetics of their speech, allowing the interface to bypass the need for facial movement and enable a computer to output their speech.  These are patients with restored speech communication through this technology who've lost the ability to speak for up to 18 years.

Links to the publications themselves, one from a group at Stanford University School of Medicine and the other at the University of California at San Francisco.

A high-performance speech neuroprosthesis

A high-performance neuroprosthesis for speech decoding and avatar control

There are other advances in brain-machine interfaces that include applications of machine learning to construct devices that restore movement of prosthetic arms or legs, and provide the capacity for self-directed movements in paraplegics, including walking.  In all these cases, the machines doing the 'learning' are translating neural signals that normally control movement and coordination of specific limb muscle groups into output that generates computer control of prosthetics or limbs and bypasses the life-changing loss of neuromuscular system function from injury or disease.

It's clear from your insistence on making general statements about AI far beyond their relevance to the comic book industry that this thread belongs in the WC.  There's already an AI thread there, so perhaps this one can be merged with it.

Edited September 5, 2023 by namisgr

[EastEnd1]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:31 PM, Lazyboy said:

Nothing and this is just a thinly-veiled attempt to bring a Water Cooler topic to Comics General for... some reason?

Agreed... the connection to comics seems contrived.  Thread is heavy on "societal impacts" and "end of the world" talk and I'm not sure why this is being discussed here. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by EastEnd1

[jas1vans]

I'm curious if the CGC sponsored grading contests are being used to train an AI grading system. It seems like a great way to speed up the process and eliminate any possible human grade deviations (hungover, currently drinking, been drinking all day, just don't care, etc). AI assigns a grade, humans take a look and make sure that the grade assigned makes sense, book gets slabbed and shipped.

For all I know, it might already be happening with some of the QC issues I've seen on that thread. I really hope that some of those tears and rips would not have been done by human hands, but by a heartless AI grade-bot's conveyer belt and grabber mechanism.

[Jayman]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:55 AM, jas1vans said:

It seems like a great way to speed up the process and eliminate any possible human grade deviations (hungover, currently drinking, been drinking all day, just don't care, etc).

New grading catagory; 9.8D = Drunk! 

[Dr. Balls]

It’s a poor and lame substitute for creativity - it dilutes talent, skill and craftsmanship. But, it will be accepted by the majority of people who never possessed those abilities to begin with and enamor them with the prospect of having those talents not through work and practice, but with a shortcut to the end result. Life will go on - albeit less unique and interesting.

[valiantman]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:12 AM, Dr. Balls said:

It’s a poor and lame substitute for creativity - it dilutes talent, skill and craftsmanship. But, it will be accepted by the majority of people who never possessed those abilities to begin with and enamor them with the prospect of having those talents not through work and practice, but with a shortcut to the end result. Life will go on - albeit less unique and interesting.

AI-Enhanced Dunning-Kruger Effect --- just what the world needs. 

AI will allow the height of that confidence "Peak" on the left to go even higher! 

Edited September 5, 2023 by valiantman

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:54 AM, namisgr said:

Machine learning is used for well defined applications for science and biomedicine.  The learning is restricted to a circumscribed topic that provides functional value for scientific discovery and patient care.  To imply these applications have some kind of continuous learning capability that extends beyond their plug-in use for restoration of lost brain function is wild exaggeration.

You always seem to try to switch the topic from future impact to immediate benefits as though future impact should never be discussed.

The discussion is not about immediate benefits. We're not just talking about the now. I'm specifically talking about the future of the industry. 

The "learning is restricted to a circumscribed topic" right now but we ALL know that is not going to remain the case as AI moves deeper and deeper into society and continues to be more accessible by a larger segment of the population. This precedent has already been replayed a zillion times.

On 9/5/2023 at 5:54 AM, namisgr said:

It's clear from your insistence on making general statements about AI far beyond their relevance to the comic book industry that this thread belongs in the WC.  There's already an AI thread there, so perhaps this one can be merged with it.

Have you ever read my posts? 

Duh. I'm ALWAYS  'making general statements far beyond their relevance to the comic book industry' on a multitude of topics in every forum of these boards since I first came onto this forum 20 years ago.

Should we then move ALL of my posts into the Watercooler? 

Discussions breathe and grow and trying to put training wheels on everyone is ridiculous. You post off topic all the time, so much so that your posts sometimes make no sense to me. 

This is a conversation about the comic industry. I've always posted in broad terms in every thread I'm in as I believe it's immature and naive to focus on one small aspect of a conversation without considering the greater perspective. 

My mind always works in broad terms while yours seems to always focus on minutia. 

Why YOU would bring topics OUT OF THE WATERCOOLER here, and then ask Moderation to move my thread into the Watercooler is beyond me but it's obvious that you're just trolling like Lazyboy because you both have a history with me and your push to steer this thread into the WC is just another attempt at a troll.

Everyone else is having a genuine conversation. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:55 AM, jas1vans said:

I'm curious if the CGC sponsored grading contests are being used to train an AI grading system. It seems like a great way to speed up the process and eliminate any possible human grade deviations (hungover, currently drinking, been drinking all day, just don't care, etc). AI assigns a grade, humans take a look and make sure that the grade assigned makes sense, book gets slabbed and shipped.

This forum has always been a priceless wealth of information for CGC that money couldn't buy if it wanted to. 

Honest opinions are hard to come by and there's no better way to get them than listening to your audience. 

I remember sitting and talking to Borock 20 years ago and asking if he really wanted to have a forum where people could slag CGC and he said he'd rather have it on his front door than in a far corner of the internet. Ingenious. 

--------------------------

Your first line (in bold) is something we've discussed in this forum many times over the years (in Comics General ), and I was the first to say that AI will never be able to grade a comic book accurately....in fact, I specifically remember discussing it publicly with @fantastic_four a few times on here about a decade ago. 

He was insistent that AI could and would likely, eventually learn how to grade comics fairly accurately. 

For me personally, the jury is still out but just like my example a few days ago about how people will not eventually be able to tell the difference between 'fake and real' out in the real world, AI may be able to be tweaked to get 'most' of the grading correct, so much so that the average person may not be able to tell a difference between a human graded comic and an AI graded one. Only a discerning eye may be able to tell. 

And this aligns with your theory that a finalizer may sign off on the grade after AI has done most of the work. 

But I CAN EASILY see it being used to for quality control - to catch bigger, more OBVIOUS things that the human eye may miss just due to repetition, exhaustion or neglect.

Like a piece of plastic in the well, or a mistake on a lablel, or scuffing on a slab, or an incorrect book in a slab. These likely comprise the majority of complaints and so having a program babysit QC staff is probably going to happen. 

In fact, it may not be a co-incidence that  CGC is now SCANNING EVERY BOOK at the same time as the advent of AI. Both started this year....which is ironic since people have been wanting CGC to scan every book since they opened their doors...and now we it's happening albeit for reasons other than the consumer.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

Did you see this Roy? @VintageComics

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/11945/

Carney has been the instrumental leader in building a proprietary platform that enables CCG to identify a collectible from among millions of possibilities in a near-instant using artificial intelligence (AI), machine learning and advanced computer vision and image processing technologies. 

[namisgr]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:23 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Did you see this Roy? @VintageComics

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/11945/

Carney has been the instrumental leader in building a proprietary platform that enables CCG to identify a collectible from among millions of possibilities in a near-instant using artificial intelligence (AI), machine learning and advanced computer vision and image processing technologies. 

You'd think the application of transformative new technologies wouldn't have left the company with mind-numbing quality control problems at multiple levels of the comic book grading process, or the need for another price hike.

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:23 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Did you see this Roy? @VintageComics

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/11945/

Carney has been the instrumental leader in building a proprietary platform that enables CCG to identify a collectible from among millions of possibilities in a near-instant using artificial intelligence (AI), machine learning and advanced computer vision and image processing technologies. 

So you're saying I was right again. 

No, I hadn't seen it. Interesting stuff. 

So it seems that ALL of the changes we've seen with CGC including the scanning of books and the speeding up of processing times can all be attributed to their implementation of AI. 

I had an extensive conversation with Matt at SDCC about shipping times. Walk Through books used to be opened, graded and shipped out within a couple of days. 

Lately it's been taking 2-3 days (latest invoice sitting at 4 business days unopened) just to open the packages and a week or longer to get them out. Matt assured me that this was going to change. Hopefully they get back on track.

This is obviously going to put CGC at a huge advantage over any competition and this was basically the premise of the general conversation on AI, that whoever implements it first will be the runaway winner...in almost every industry. 

Thanks for sharing. 

The future has arrived. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:42 PM, namisgr said:

You'd think the application of transformative new technologies wouldn't have left the company with mind-numbing quality control problems at multiple levels of the comic book grading process, or the need for another price hike.

Patience young Padawn. Patience. 

These things take time. 

[fantastic_four]

Only saw this thread because Roy tagged me in it, but I definitely have thoughts.  Most of them will come later after I've read the thread later today or tomorrow.

Responding to the general idea--the writers aren't going to win on their proposed AI moratorium, and they need to drop the AI provisions and focus on the others.  I'm not sure it's the death knell Roy is projecting, but I won't be surprised if it eventually is and how far out that will be remains to be seen.  AI is here, it ain't going away, it will at minimum reduce the number of writers required in the entertainment industry, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.  The writers can try, but they will fail.

My guess is that it just reduces the number of screenwriters for the foreseeable future.  It won't eliminate them for at least a decade or three, but I won't be shocked if that job is gone entirely by the mid-21st century.

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:47 PM, fantastic_four said:

Only saw this thread because Roy tagged me in it, but I definitely have thoughts.  Most of them will come later after I've read the thread later today or tomorrow.

Responding to the general idea--the writers aren't going to win on their proposed AI moratorium, and they need to drop the AI provisions and focus on the others.  I'm not sure it's the death knell Roy is projecting, but I won't be surprised if it eventually is and how far out that will be remains to be seen.  AI is here, it ain't going away, it will at minimum reduce the number of writers required in the entertainment industry, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.  The writers can try, but they will fail.

My guess is that it just reduces the number of screenwriters for the foreseeable future.  It won't eliminate them for at least a decade or three, but I won't be shocked if that job is gone entirely by the mid-21st century.

Hey man. 

The writer's strike thread in the Movie forums, which I rarely frequent. 

This discussion thread is really about the effect it's going to have on comic book creators. 

But I'm actually excited to hear what you have to say as you and I always have great convos.