REALLY NEED OPINIONS! SOMETHING SMELLS ROTTEN 0

[JohnBurke]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:16 PM, Southside Cards said:

VERY INTERESTING...I SENT IT A 500 CARD COLLECTION OF MINT,  UNTOUCHED SLICES OF HEAVEN. CSG me like a $2 dollar whore. I say we come together and revolt. Boycott all the grading organizations, they're still using the same method they used in prehistoric ages. Just because "some guy" is a certified card grader doesnt mean a damn thing other than that guy has a strong resume in the card grading industry. And Im sure this post will cause some to lash out at me for being so inconsiderate but come on guys, y'all are smarter than this. Boycott all Sports Card grading and they will collapse. Its that simpe. 

Not sure if trolling or not, but this is comedy gold lmao thank you 

[northkorea]

On 4/18/2022 at 10:24 AM, I dont have one said:

I’d somewhat agree with your take on why raws are worth more than all CSG grades under 9.5  But nonetheless they’re worth more so it is what it is. And for the most part high print run base cards are pretty much the only ones even worth sending to CSG because the fees are a cheaper. But if they are going to devalue the great majority of them below raw value why even send those? What earthly reason would you have for sending a high value card that you’re almost certain will score a ten to CSG instead of paying the extra to send it to PSA? First of all you subject yourself to their ridiculous surface grades opening yourself up to possibly getting a 8.5 or 9 that makes it worthless and needing regrading elsewhere. If it does get the CSG 9.5 or 10 the PSA ten is still going to get you back a lot more on resale than the CSG 10 will. The greater return will far exceed any extra cost you incur to send it to PSA instead. I’ve yet to hear a solid dollars and cents argument why you’d want to send cards here given the current grade scale / ROI reality. You have to be wishing on a star that sometime in the distant future public sentiment turns against PSA and towards CSG? We’re all entitled to speculate and have an opinion on that but I personally don’t see it happening.  Seems to be some of the fanboys here willing to go down with that ship though. To each his own. 

I can't imagine many scenarios under which it would make sense to get a modern base card that you expect to grade out below 9 sent to *any* TPG.

My guess would be that a good portion (80%+) of modern graded cards are the result of some sort of mass submission deal ($6 per card, perhaps) between PSA/BGS/SGC with distributors prior to CoVID slowing things down.

[northkorea]

On 3/5/2022 at 6:12 AM, Matt Zai said:

I sent in 90 cards and they have already graded them....def disappointed in many of the grades.  The crazy part is I KNOW one card from a 1986 Topps football cards had a bent corner, BUT YET IT IS COMING BACK with the highest grade in the bunch......follow up with upload.  

You should have the cards in hand by now. Could you share the '86 Topps FB card that you speak of?

[Matt Zai]

I did halve them. I actually sent 2 cards, never touched. They were both just the same. My CSG came back an 8 and my SGC came back a 9. Bit diff. 
 

I just did the same. I sent into CSG, SGC and GMA. Let’s see. I also sent the same 3 cards into CSG and they are the same and in same condition. Let’s see. 
 

also got back 4 1987 Mark McGwire’s. All looked centered. And edges all perfect. 8.5, 9, 9 and a 5!!!!!  Where did the 5 come from??  I’ll let you all know what my recent submission came. I sent 6 2022 Topps brand new out of pack I’m. Curious. 

[Shockmaster]

On 2/25/2022 at 4:32 PM, AM Cards said:

Who decided to change the original title of this post?  LOL. nothing rotten here.  I've been happy with CSG and the grades I've gotten.  Great alternative while PSA is expensive right now.

The only thing rotten here is the "expert" grading crybabies not getting the grades they should get.

[Jtp1389]

Frankly, it looks like PSA or GMA should be the way to go. GMA is as good at grading as anyone else and they're cheaper. PSA will give the best value when you sell them. All other graders are about worthless for their fees and ROI vs PSA unfortunately

[northkorea]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:10 AM, Jtp1389 said:

Frankly, it looks like PSA or GMA should be the way to go. GMA is as good at grading as anyone else and they're cheaper. PSA will give the best value when you sell them. All other graders are about worthless for their fees and ROI vs PSA unfortunately

No one, not even the CSG haters, would say people should use GMA. GMA has a reputation for grading cards deemed altered or questionable authenticity by the major grading companies.

[I dont have one]

On 4/24/2022 at 4:00 PM, northkorea said:

No one, not even the CSG haters, would say people should use GMA. GMA has a reputation for grading cards deemed altered or questionable authenticity by the major grading companies.

I agree. This CSG “hater” wouldn't ever use GMA. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by I dont have one

[northkorea]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:03 AM, I dont have one said:

I agree. This CSG “hater” wouldn't ever use GMA. 

What's funny is I don't actually think of you as a CSG hater. You hate that the green labels were tough. Have you tried to sub since CSG loosened their standards last month?

[I dont have one]

On 4/24/2022 at 5:44 PM, northkorea said:

What's funny is I don't actually think of you as a CSG hater. You hate that the green labels were tough. Have you tried to sub since CSG loosened their standards last month?

No. I don’t trust their judgement now. I highly doubt I’ll ever send another batch here again. I’m inclined to sit back and see if the market tanking sinks demand enough to start forcing pricing back down at other graders. If I were to send any bulk orders at all right now it would be SGC first. HGA second choice if I want sub grades on some of them. I may send half a dozen higher value cards to PSA because I prefer PSA first but I’m not paying $50 a card for any large batches. I won a 20 card allotment there last week and couldn’t justify paying $50 a card on enough of what I want graded so I didn’t fill the order. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by I dont have one

[northkorea]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:46 PM, I dont have one said:

No. I don’t trust their judgement now.

This, more or less, is how I feel. I believe the choice to ditch subs was the right move, but I'm not sure loosening grading standards was such a good idea.

[Fredguy11:11]

Ok people, everybody gonna need to sit down. I started this thread. I am an amateur. I would say I am an expert comic and card collector since the mid 70s. I have absolutely, positively no experience in anything to do with grading. I have since learned that I suck at it.  I decided I wanted to start having stuff graded to sell.  So to keep this short. In the name of learning I TOTALLY TOOK ONE FOR THE TEAM. (not sure who is on my team but whatever).  I won a $50 each 20 card submission from PSA. I cracked out 10 CSG graded cards I was disappointed with the grades.  Figure at worst they would at least grade out the same.  Was I fkn wrong!! All were a grade or half grade lower from PSA (just FYI Mantle, Clemente, Koufax, Montana, Mays). I knew they were not 7,8,9,10 but wanted to see how CSG compared to PSA. Thought I would get half to full grade higher.  So i will no longer complain about CSG grades. PSA/CSG equal quality grading results. The unfortunate conclusion is the grading is comparable. Unfortunately the return on investment is not. At least at this time.   PSA is way to expensive for my stuff. So lesson learned. PSA still brings more ROI than CSG. Is the ROI enough to offset the cost. Depends on how good your stuff is.  Mine ain't good enuff. 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Fredguy11:11
swears were edited to incomprehensible

[Matt Zai]

GREAT FEEDBACK.  They seem to be "somewhat" different.  I have had the best grades from PSA, but not worth the cost.  SGC seems to be the fairest with the best customer service.  just sent in a batch of 2021/22 cards, fresh out of the packs......can't see any grading lower than a 9.....will let know.

[Fredguy11:11]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:53 AM, Matt Zai said:

GREAT FEEDBACK.  They seem to be "somewhat" different.  I have had the best grades from PSA, but not worth the cost.  SGC seems to be the fairest with the best customer service.  just sent in a batch of 2021/22 cards, fresh out of the packs......can't see any grading lower than a 9.....will let know.

But same problem. SGC/CSG dont bring anywhere near the PSA ROI. I think that is totally wrong. If the grading quality is all the same, the ROI should also be the same. But it is what it is and I can't do anything about it.  GMA and the other alphabet soup graders have other issues. They, I dont feel they are even close to the same quality grading as PSA/CSG/SGC/BGS. (why does nobody ever ever mention Beckett. Its like the dont exist).  HGA is an enigma. If you can solve the rubicks cube of submitting. They are still just a pubic hair above GMA. Again, just my opinion. Tell me Im wrong and why.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Fredguy11:11

[Yeahiwasder4dat]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:16 AM, Fredguy11:11 said:

But same problem. SGC/CSG dont bring anywhere near the PSA ROI. I think that is totally wrong. If the grading quality is all the same, the ROI should also be the same. But it is what it is and I can't do anything about it.  GMA and the other alphabet soup graders have other issues. They, I dont feel they are even close to the same quality grading as PSA/CSG/SGC/BGS. (why does nobody ever ever mention Beckett. Its like the dont exist).  HGA is an enigma. If you can solve the rubicks cube of submitting. They are still just a pubic hair above GMA. Again, just my opinion. Tell me Im wrong and why.

BGS blew it the biggest in terms of backlog. I can't think of anyone I know that's sent them anything recently and others still have subs there from like a year ago. PSA continues to carry a premium, but from my last few subs I feel like they have a dart board in the office and use it to determine grades. SGC I use for $2-400 cards because the ROI isn't terrible but the turnaround on my last sub there was 16 days that finished up yesterday.

CSG will be my go-to for $20-50 cards to get inventory for the shop. Affordable cards of hot players that will still be affordable after grading. Can't justify spending $50 of a 90 day turnaround time. So for the time being I'll be pushing CSG for base and low end parallels of LaMelo, AE, Mac Jones, Tlaw, etc.

I've sold a bit of CGC slabs for pokemon in the last year, so I'm hoping CSG eventually catches up to a similar point. Not the highest ROI, but at an affordable time to price. Most people aren't coming in and buying singles over $300 anyways so assuming they move I think CSG will have it's place. Most of what moves is under $100.

I don't think GMA is considered legit by anyone.

[Jtp1389]

PSA, BGS, and HGA (haha) have all graded fake cards too. HGA is a joke, anyone using them lacks good judgement. PSA, BGS, SGC, and GMA have been around the longest, with CSG's parent being around longer than any other grader. These 5 companies I would use, never HGA. They've all had problems and mistakes and have learned how to improve over time. PSA today isn't PSA from 10 years ago

[northkorea]

On 4/29/2022 at 4:06 AM, Jtp1389 said:

PSA, BGS, and HGA (haha) have all graded fake cards too. HGA is a joke, anyone using them lacks good judgement. PSA, BGS, SGC, and GMA have been around the longest, with CSG's parent being around longer than any other grader. These 5 companies I would use, never HGA. They've all had problems and mistakes and have learned how to improve over time. PSA today isn't PSA from 10 years ago

GMA is also a joke...

This is the thing I don't get about these CSG trolls/haters... You guys keep touting ridiculous claims like "GMA is on par with PSA" when clearly they're not. They have fancy looking labels, but they've garnered a reputation for being the go to grader when your cards are deemed altered or otherwise questionable authenticity after being submitted to PSA.

For me, right now, there are 2.5 grading companies that are actually worth using:

PSA, CSG, and 50% SGC.

I excluded BGS due to their wait queue and lack of a guarantee. I gave SGC half-credit, since they only guarantee black label SGC cards, claiming the green label SGC was a different company. Then, they turn around and say they are the original SGC team, so we should trust them for their history. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to claim legacy due to the grading team being the same, honor the guarantee. If not, leave it be. It would be amazing is CSG passes a policy that original CCG owned SGC slabbed cards can be swapped into CSG holders for $10. It won't happen, but it would be amazing.

Now, the other grading services simply don't have the financial backing to support any sort of grade guarantee. If you're unwilling to guarantee your work, I feel you shouldn't be used as a service. I view grading companies the same way I view plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, etc. If you do a bad job, own up to it and make it right. Yes, I'm looking at you Beckett, with you "we never make mistakes, so we guarantee nothing" policy.

 

 

[JonWarren]

Just got our first submission of 150+ cards back in, mostly 1950s-1970s cards. And I just finished reading this entire thread. For the record, am I not a "grading scientist" so I will simply give my impressions. I do know how to grade, but do not claim to be an expert, so my input here may not be particularly useful...but here goes.

That said, my opinion of the overall grading from this first submission is SATISFACTORY. We will continue to use CSG.

There are a handful of cards that surprised to the downside, and some that surprised with the highness of the grade. But 90% or more are as expected.

Now that I understand an 8, 8, 9, 2 will get maybe a 2.5 or 3, I even understand the low grades we received. In a fair world, the 4 grades would get averaged and the final grade would be a MEDIAN rather than a heavily weighted down grade. Alas. Why this is not the methodology baffles me.

I must say, the grading *does* seem inconsistent, but hopefully that will iron out as their graders gain more experience.

Bottom-line, CSG is a great low-cost alternative to the more established services. As long as you understand how they do their grading, you will not be unhappy. We will continue to use CSG for low-value, under $1000 cards.

Edited May 17, 2022 by JonWarren

[northkorea]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:22 AM, JonWarren said:

Now that I understand an 8, 8, 9, 2 will get maybe a 2.5 or 3, I even understand the low grades we received. In a fair world, the 4 grades would get averaged and the final grade would be a MEDIAN rather than a heavily weighted down grade. Alas. Why this is not the methodology baffles me.

Before I consider the main concern, I assume your intention was to say mean, as opposed to median.

The mean above would be 6.75, whereby the median would be 8.

Now, to the point of maximizing the impact of the lowest grade... Think of a perfectly centered, perfect corners, perfect edges card with a huge scratch right in the middle. That would never be considered NrMt+, despite three tens.

[oluckydayo]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:39 AM, northkorea said:

Now, to the point of maximizing the impact of the lowest grade... Think of a perfectly centered, perfect corners, perfect edges card with a huge scratch right in the middle. That would never be considered NrMt+, despite three tens.

Exactly.  The purpose of this method is to prevent a scenario just like this from happening.   I think using the lowest grade as a base value is essential.

Whether .5-1 point maximum from that lowest is appropriate may be up for debate, but you certainly can't average a 10/10/10/6 into a 9 overall grade when that 6 was given for something like a tear, or a corner entirely missing, or a crayon drawn on the card.