A Softening Art Market Has Hit Last Years Auction Stars 1 1

[Stefanomjr]

Bloomberg article about soft art market and recent drop in auction results compared to 2022 highs.

I'm surprised at how frequently the pieces in the article were being flipped.

Don't think we have the same market dynamics on comic OA, however, we do seem to also be seeing a softening.

 

A Softening Art Market Has Hit Last Year’s Auction Stars https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/soft-art-market-sends-collectors-on-search-for-the-next-big-trend-in-art

Edited September 20, 2023 by Stefanomjr

[Michael Browning]

Are we seeing a softening of the market or is it really a shift? I see some art sell really high, for example the Nick Cardy Brave and the Bold page for $28,000 and the Veronica 28 cover for nearly $16K — and, to a lesser extent, a Zot! page that sold for $811 on eBay this week. I’m seeing 1990s Ghost Rider art sell in the thousands most every time a page comes up for sale.

Some prices have leveled off, but, mainly, that’s art that was purchased at 2020-2021 COVID cash prices and now the owners are selling at losses, which was inevitable in a lot of cases.

But, the original art market is still very strong, overall. I see the recent auction results as proof backing up what I said the last two years - it’s going to take YEARS to break even on art bought in the COVID-era at sky-high prices because people - in their stay-at-home boredom and their excitement over having extra cash to throw at art - paid way too much.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:50 AM, Michael Browning said:

Are we seeing a softening of the market or is it really a shift? I see some art sell really high, for example the Nick Cardy Brave and the Bold page for $28,000 and the Veronica 28 cover for nearly $16K — and, to a lesser extent, a Zot! page that sold for $811 on eBay this week. I’m seeing 1990s Ghost Rider art sell in the thousands most every time a page comes up for sale.

Some prices have leveled off, but, mainly, that’s art that was purchased at 2020-2021 COVID cash prices and now the owners are selling at losses, which was inevitable in a lot of cases.

But, the original art market is still very strong, overall. I see the recent auction results as proof backing up what I said the last two years - it’s going to take YEARS to break even on art bought in the COVID-era at sky-high prices because people - in their stay-at-home boredom and their excitement over having extra cash to throw at art - paid way too much.

Agree with what you’ve said, but counter to it is that a lot of affordable art (under $300) has tanked.  Xmen pages, Spidey pages, captain America, etc by decent artists have lost 50% of their value over the past 4 months.

[tth2]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:04 PM, Stefanomjr said:

Bloomberg article about soft art market and recent drop in auction results compared to 2022 highs.

I'm surprised at how frequently the pieces in the article were being flipped.

Don't think we have the same market dynamics on comic OA, however, we do seem to also be seeing a softening.

 

A Softening Art Market Has Hit Last Year’s Auction Stars https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/soft-art-market-sends-collectors-on-search-for-the-next-big-trend-in-art

The article is about art by new artists with no track record.  It appears to me that prices for their art were ramped up by speculators and then the inevitable collapse took place. 

It'd be more meaningful if the collapse was taking place with the Bacons, Picassos, etc.      

[buttock]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:02 AM, tth2 said:

The article is about art by new artists with no track record.  It appears to me that prices for their art were ramped up by speculators and then the inevitable collapse took place. 

It'd be more meaningful if the collapse was taking place with the Bacons, Picassos, etc.      

Not to mention the fine art market is a completely different animal than comic OA despite people trying to equate the two.  

[batman_fan]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:22 AM, buttock said:

Not to mention the fine art market is a completely different animal than comic OA despite people trying to equate the two.  

Both have the word “art” in them so how can they not be the same 

[buttock]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:29 AM, batman_fan said:

Both have the word “art” in them so how can they not be the same 

My bad.

[Rick2you2]

.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Rick2you2

[comix4fun]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:59 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Agree with what you’ve said, but counter to it is that a lot of affordable art (under $300) has tanked.  Xmen pages, Spidey pages, captain America, etc by decent artists have lost 50% of their value over the past 4 months.

I only wish the items, titles, issues, artists on my wish/want list were softening. 

[Michael Browning]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:59 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Agree with what you’ve said, but counter to it is that a lot of affordable art (under $300) has tanked.  Xmen pages, Spidey pages, captain America, etc by decent artists have lost 50% of their value over the past 4 months.

You might be right. I follow a cross-section in each auction and take notes on the end results and I haven’t seen it to a large extent, but I might be missing those pages.

I think that, for the 2020-2021 period, ALL art was going up and I am seeing that settle down. I see values dropping severely in the main DC titles, but then art from series like Vigilante are soaring. With Marvel, I have noticed common pages have settled a bit, but I attribute the 50% drop to people just paying crazy-high prices for those pages when they were trying to grab everything that seemed even remotely affordable. Those buyers were never going to see a return on investment for several years and a lot are selling now and losing money.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:56 PM, Michael Browning said:

You might be right. I follow a cross-section in each auction and take notes on the end results and I haven’t seen it to a large extent, but I might be missing those pages.

I think that, for the 2020-2021 period, ALL art was going up and I am seeing that settle down. I see values dropping severely in the main DC titles, but then art from series like Vigilante are soaring. With Marvel, I have noticed common pages have settled a bit, but I attribute the 50% drop to people just paying crazy-high prices for those pages when they were trying to grab everything that seemed even remotely affordable. Those buyers were never going to see a return on investment for several years and a lot are selling now and losing money.

There is a massive glut of comic art out there. The stuff that's dropping is the overpriced modern stuff people were speculating on, and the low-end mediocre stuff. 

[the blob]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:50 AM, Michael Browning said:

Are we seeing a softening of the market or is it really a shift? I see some art sell really high, for example the Nick Cardy Brave and the Bold page for $28,000 and the Veronica 28 cover for nearly $16K — and, to a lesser extent, a Zot! page that sold for $811 on eBay this week. I’m seeing 1990s Ghost Rider art sell in the thousands most every time a page comes up for sale.

Some prices have leveled off, but, mainly, that’s art that was purchased at 2020-2021 COVID cash prices and now the owners are selling at losses, which was inevitable in a lot of cases.

But, the original art market is still very strong, overall. I see the recent auction results as proof backing up what I said the last two years - it’s going to take YEARS to break even on art bought in the COVID-era at sky-high prices because people - in their stay-at-home boredom and their excitement over having extra cash to throw at art - paid way too much.

I'm not sure if the art market for $75,000 abstract or pop artists is really running in line with OA. Maybe a few of the same people, but not likely. Yes, a sense of "I have extra money" permeated both groups

 

On 9/20/2023 at 7:50 AM, Michael Browning said:

Are we seeing a softening of the market or is it really a shift? I see some art sell really high, for example the Nick Cardy Brave and the Bold page for $28,000 and the Veronica 28 cover for nearly $16K — and, to a lesser extent, a Zot! page that sold for $811 on eBay this week. I’m seeing 1990s Ghost Rider art sell in the thousands most every time a page comes up for sale.

Some prices have leveled off, but, mainly, that’s art that was purchased at 2020-2021 COVID cash prices and now the owners are selling at losses, which was inevitable in a lot of cases.

But, the original art market is still very strong, overall. I see the recent auction results as proof backing up what I said the last two years - it’s going to take YEARS to break even on art bought in the COVID-era at sky-high prices because people - in their stay-at-home boredom and their excitement over having extra cash to throw at art - paid way too much.

I understand folks like to show off their OA collection on line and stuff, but at the end of the day is it just a lot easier to have "enough" OA? I've bought my fair share but at the end of the day the good stuff should be displayed and how many of us have unlimited wall space? So I have 50, 75 pages of OA and almost nowhere to display it so I stopped looking. I sold my kirby and steranko pages because I needed money, I'll never be able to afford those again. I've always wanted a decent John Buscema Conan page and now the most lame ones are like $800 from his "I don't care anymore" later work. i guess that isn't happening except via trade.

[JC25427N]

I feel like this is the 20th time I've read this thread in some form in the past few months

[barneythecantankerous]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:17 PM, JC25427N said:

I feel like this is the 20th time I've read this thread in some form in the past few months

Agreed, and it's just the same recycled points made over and over again

[Michael Browning]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:17 PM, the blob said:

I'm not sure if the art market for $75,000 abstract or pop artists is really running in line with OA. Maybe a few of the same people, but not likely. Yes, a sense of "I have extra money" permeated both groups

 

I understand folks like to show off their OA collection on line and stuff, but at the end of the day is it just a lot easier to have "enough" OA? I've bought my fair share but at the end of the day the good stuff should be displayed and how many of us have unlimited wall space? So I have 50, 75 pages of OA and almost nowhere to display it so I stopped looking. I sold my kirby and steranko pages because I needed money, I'll never be able to afford those again. I've always wanted a decent John Buscema Conan page and now the most lame ones are like $800 from his "I don't care anymore" later work. i guess that isn't happening except via trade.

To your first point, you directed it to me, but I don’t think you meant to do that. My comments haven’t referenced pop art.

[Michael Browning]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:18 PM, barneythecantankerous said:

Agreed, and it's just the same recycled points made over and over again

I like reading other people’s thoughts and opinions on the market. It’s good to discuss it. I avoid posts I don’t want to read. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[the blob]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:29 PM, Michael Browning said:

To your first point, you directed it to me, but I don’t think you meant to do that. My comments haven’t referenced pop art.

The OP was referencing an article on the general fine art market. While I don't think OA and "fine art" are completely independent and excess money influences both, I am not sure if a softening of demand on six figure work (which can happen independent of easy money) necessarily filters down into $500 OA or even some $15K grail OA art.   On the high end art market, it is a weird balance. If the stock market is doing 25% folks who might be interested in acquiring more big time art have more funds for it, but on the flip side, why tie up $500K in some painting if you're making 25% in the market? Hard for me to grasp as I am so far from that. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by the blob

[Xatari]

For what it's worth, I don't see first appearance art softening.  I am an active buyer, and prices continue to be strong enough to where I am having to be much more selective and try to be patient.

[tth2]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:22 PM, buttock said:

On 9/20/2023 at 10:02 PM, tth2 said:

The article is about art by new artists with no track record.  It appears to me that prices for their art were ramped up by speculators and then the inevitable collapse took place. 

It'd be more meaningful if the collapse was taking place with the Bacons, Picassos, etc.      

Not to mention the fine art market is a completely different animal than comic OA despite people trying to equate the two.

Well, there could be parallels if, for example, prices for new comic artists had ramped up big time over the last few years and then started collapsing. 

Unfortunately, I don't follow the market for new artists at all, so have no clue if this has been happening in the OA market.

[tth2]

On 9/21/2023 at 12:44 AM, comix4fun said:

On 9/20/2023 at 7:59 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Agree with what you’ve said, but counter to it is that a lot of affordable art (under $300) has tanked.  Xmen pages, Spidey pages, captain America, etc by decent artists have lost 50% of their value over the past 4 months.

I only wish the items, titles, issues, artists on my wish/want list were softening. 

Sometimes there's a reason why art was affordable/cheap in the first place.