A Softening Art Market Has Hit Last Years Auction Stars 1 1

[vodou]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:58 AM, Will_K said:

I'll confess that in the mid 1990's, I went to Bleeker Bob's in NYC for the express purpose of getting the Buckingham Nicks album.  Didn't even know if they had a copy.  There it was on the wall for $100.  Jacket in great shape, plain sleeve (probably a replacement).  I was in and out in less than 5 minutes…

That’s all very nice, but as we’ve recently been made aware, ROI is the only thing that really matters. What’s yours here, inflation-adjusted of course? 😈🤑💩👻🎃

[jimjum12]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, buttock said:

And collectibles don't have an assigned value until they sell.  

... and if lost or damaged you must prove to the Insurance Company that the collectible is not less than worthless. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[delekkerste]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:29 PM, grapeape said:

Any Jim Page birther covers out there?

LOL, Heritage has a rare turquoise lettering copy of Zeppelin's first LP up for auction later today. Current bid is $4,125 including BP. 

#LedZeppelinRookie

Edited September 23, 2023 by delekkerste

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:22 PM, Bronty said:

I suspect we all agree with you there, but that's the point.   Trying to turn it into math is a flawed prospect.

Hence my distinguishing between speculators and collectors/dealers. Yes. Many speculators DO try to make the calculation, contrary to what some here have argued. At least back of the hand, or SWAG. They have to, otherwise they wouldn't pick one investment vehicle over another. It's a lot easier to park cash in a high yield savings account than to guess as to whether a Mike Zeck Punisher page is going to appreciate at a daily compounded rate of 5% apy

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, delekkerste said:

A bunch of third-party grading companies for records popped up almost overnight over the past year or so. DJ Steve Aoki is backing one of them although Heritage seems to have struck up some kind of partnership with a fellow Texas-based grading company. Here's a slabbed, sealed record up for auction at Heritage this week. 

For sealed records, they grade the cover and the shrink wrap to come up with the overall grade.

For opened records, they grade the record, cover, inner sleeve and labels to come up with the overall grade. 

I have actually been collecting mostly sealed records for the past 2-3 years. For me, it's primarily a nostalgia thing, though, after the videogame pump and then the VHS market pump, I became metaphysically certain that it was only a matter of time before they got to records, cassettes and CDs and I was proven correct. 

I'm actually sending in my first batch of records to be graded this weekend! I have audiophile friends who are snobby about not being able to play sealed and/or graded records, but, you could make the same argument for slabbed comics, toys, videogames, VHS, etc. where the original product can no longer be used as intended; it's really only trading cards where there is no meaningful loss of functionality after slabbing.  

Is CGC going to be sponsoring any witnessed signings by Geezer Butler?

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/23/2023 at 7:39 AM, delekkerste said:

LOL, Heritage has a rare turquoise lettering copy of Zeppelin's first LP up for auction later today. Current bid is $4,125 including BP. 

#LedZeppelinRookie

I'm waiting for the "Paranoid" Foil album re-issue, with hologram, and Letter of Authenticity signed by Sharon Osbourne.

Edited September 23, 2023 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, buttock said:

And collectibles don't have an assigned value until they sell.  

They are the Shroedinger's Cat of investment vehicles.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:29 PM, grapeape said:

Any Jim Page birther covers out there?

The soundtrack to "Goldfinger."

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:56 PM, KirbyCollector said:

The value comes from being able to enjoy them regardless of their monetary worth. No 5% yield on a CD is going to make you remember that hot day in July 1980, when you sat on the curb in front of the 7-11 working on a large cherry Slurpee while reading the latest Byrne X-Men you just bought from a spinner rack inside and wondering if you'd ever meet a girl as pretty as Jean Grey. THAT is the true worth of collectibles.

Yes. But speculators don't give a hoot about any of that. That's the difference between a collector and a speculator.

[grapeape]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:52 PM, delekkerste said:

A bunch of third-party grading companies for records popped up almost overnight over the past year or so. DJ Steve Aoki is backing one of them although Heritage seems to have struck up some kind of partnership with a fellow Texas-based grading company. Here's a slabbed, sealed record up for auction at Heritage this week. 

For sealed records, they grade the cover and the shrink wrap to come up with the overall grade.

For opened records, they grade the record, cover, inner sleeve and labels to come up with the overall grade. 

I have actually been collecting mostly sealed records for the past 2-3 years. For me, it's primarily a nostalgia thing, though, after the videogame pump and then the VHS market pump, I became metaphysically certain that it was only a matter of time before they got to records, cassettes and CDs and I was proven correct. 

I'm actually sending in my first batch of records to be graded this weekend! I have audiophile friends who are snobby about not being able to play sealed and/or graded records, but, you could make the same argument for slabbed comics, toys, videogames, VHS, etc. where the original product can no longer be used as intended; it's really only trading cards where there is no meaningful loss of functionality after slabbing.  

What would Barry say?

 

[grapeape]

On 9/23/2023 at 4:39 AM, delekkerste said:

LOL, Heritage has a rare turquoise lettering copy of Zeppelin's first LP up for auction later today. Current bid is $4,125 including BP. 

#LedZeppelinRookie

Before Zeppelin, there was........

[Bronty]

On 9/23/2023 at 7:59 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Hence my distinguishing between speculators and collectors/dealers. Yes. Many speculators DO try to make the calculation, contrary to what some here have argued. At least back of the hand, or SWAG. They have to, otherwise they wouldn't pick one investment vehicle over another. It's a lot easier to park cash in a high yield savings account than to guess as to whether a Mike Zeck Punisher page is going to appreciate at a daily compounded rate of 5% apy

Back of the envelope math by the hardcore speculators, I agree.    I’ve heard some of those discussions because they were everywhere during Covid .  For my part I just can’t buy if I don’t believe in the material. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Bronty

[John E.]

Wow runaway thread

Is anyone keeping up with the live art sales shows, particularly the ones Bill Cox hosts? How are the sales going there?

[Xatari]

Thanks for bringing us back on track! 😂 

I haven’t been keeping up with the shows but did catch an amateur one a little while back and grabbed a piece for my collection. I personally find the non-dealer shows tend to have a greater chance of offering pieces I’m after with prices more in line with my mental market values. 

[Will_K]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:05 PM, John E. said:

Is anyone keeping up with the live art sales shows, particularly the ones Bill Cox hosts? How are the sales going there?

Those live art sales were going gangbusters early on.  In 2023, I think the percentage sold during live show is down.  I don't follow all of them but when Bill sends out the promo e-mails, he teases a few of the pieces and gives a rough idea of how many pieces will be available.  Lately after the sale, Bill has been sending follow-up e-mails showing the art and prices for what is still available.  Depending on the artist, a very, very rough guess is 10 - 30% of the pieces do not sell during the live show, it really depends.  The pieces vary.  Some are original published art, some are pieces done expressly for the live art sales.

And it's not just a function of price.  There aren't hundreds of people watching the live shows but you'll see a large increase in views afterward.  Originally, fulfillment was handled by a third party, great packing for my 1 buy.  Bill handles the fulfillment on his end now, still great packing for my other buy.  After a couple weeks, the unsold art is returned to the artist.  I was present when Dan Brereton sold one of the returned pieces at this year's Baltimore Comic Con.  The buyer was from overseas and very likely didn't watch the live show.  Also, there might be a little fatigue, I think Howard Chaykin has done at least 3 of those live art sales.  I think Denys Cowan has done at least 2 of them (1 of them with Bill Sienkiewicz).  Dan Brereton has done 2 of them.

I'll watch a good portion of every other episode (or so) of Dueling Dealers.  I usually bail out on the recap so no guesses about sell-through rate.  As per the "flip of the day" topic lately, you can see the Mike and/or Anthony do some (direct or indirect) sourcing from ebay or other auctions.  But I don't think there's a lot of that happening.  Anthony will say that he picked up certain pieces from artists that were recently at X-Y-Z Comic Cons.  So there's bound to be some markup there.  I know other people are doing the same thing on ebay.  Hey, if you don't like the markup then you'll just have to go to all the comic shows and get art directly from the artists.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Will_K

[John E.]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:47 PM, Will_K said:

Those live art sales were going gangbusters early on.  In 2023, I think the percentage sold during live show is down.  I don't follow all of them but when Bill sends out the promo e-mails, he teases a few of the pieces and gives a rough idea of how many pieces will be available.  Lately after the sale, Bill has been sending follow-up e-mails showing the art and prices for what is still available.  Depending on the artist, a very, very rough guess is 10 - 30% of the pieces do not sell during the live show, it really depends.  The pieces vary.  Some are original published art, some are pieces done expressly for the live art sales.

And it's not just a function of price.  There aren't hundreds of people watching the live shows but you'll see a large increase in views afterward.  Originally, fulfillment was handled by a third party, great packing for my 1 buy.  Bill handles the fulfillment on his end now, still great packing for my other buy.  After a couple weeks, the unsold art is returned to the artist.  I was present when Dan Brereton sold one of the returned pieces at this year's Baltimore Comic Con.  The buyer was from overseas and very likely didn't watch the live show.  Also, there might be a little fatigue, I think Howard Chaykin has done at least 3 of those live art sales.  I think Denys Cowan has done at least 2 of them (1 of them with Bill Sienkiewicz).  Dan Brereton has done 2 of them.

I'll watch a good portion of every other episode (or so) of Dueling Dealers.  I usually bail out on the recap so no guesses about sell-through rate.  As per the "flip of the day" topic lately, you can see the Mike and/or Anthony do some (direct or indirect) sourcing from ebay or other auctions.  But I don't think there's a lot of that happening.  Anthony will say that he picked up certain pieces from artists that were recently at X-Y-Z Comic Cons.  So there's bound to be some markup there.  I know other people are doing the same thing on ebay.  Hey, if you don't like the markup then you'll just have to go to all the comic shows and get art directly from the artists.

Thanks Will_K. A lot of my observations match mine. The only exception is that I don’t tune in for those sales shows—during or after—so I don’t know what the attendance is like, nor do I get to hear Snyder or Burkey say where they get art. 
 

I'm well into my 10th year collecting. In years 9 and 10 I’ve spent my entire year’s budget all at once this year and last on private offerings and this is probably why I don’t eat and breathe comic art like I did years 1-8. That and in a post-vaccine world I have been so busy I just don’t have the kind of time I used to, to waste on scouring the hidden corners of the internet for art. I don’t even bother putting in punishing bids anymore which was a favorite past time of mine. That’s my excuse. Where have all the other small-time collectors gone that used to prop up the low-end 90s art in 2020-2021?

In ‘20-‘21 when prices were going bananas, the attitude was “The tide raises all boats.” What I’m hearing now is “Everything’s fine!” as long as the “tide” is still raising the yachts of high-end premium art. Meanwhile, the sailboats are capsizing.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:54 PM, John E. said:

A lot of my observations match mine.

I would hope so!  I would be worried if they didn’t!

[cstojano]

I'm sure the consignore is happy with this graded record result:

https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/music-memorabilia/recordings/vangelis-china-sealed-lp-vinyl-record-encapsulated-by-tuned-in-grading-polydor-pd-1-6199-rated-75/a/41180-5621.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction

Edited September 24, 2023 by cstojano

[delekkerste]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:13 PM, cstojano said:

I'm sure the consignore is happy with this graded record result:

https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/music-memorabilia/recordings/vangelis-china-sealed-lp-vinyl-record-encapsulated-by-tuned-in-grading-polydor-pd-1-6199-rated-75/a/41180-5621.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction

LOL, yeah, a Pat Benatar graded album sold for $61 ($12 hammer, $49 BP) as well. $50 ($1 hammer, $49 BP) for Vangelis, sheesh. 

[tth2]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:58 PM, Will_K said:

I'll confess that in the mid 1990's, I went to Bleeker Bob's in NYC for the express purpose of getting the Buckingham Nicks album.  Didn't even know if they had a copy.  There it was on the wall for $100.  Jacket in great shape, plain sleeve (probably a replacement).  I was in and out in less than 5 minutes, a very happy camper.  I played it a few times, copied it to a cassette tape.  I still have the album and maybe even the cassette.  But I can't play either of them. 

Here in Japan, they still sell boomboxes with cassette players!