Heritage Nov 16-19 Signature Auction 5 5

[Phill the Governor]

I'm a younger collector and I maintain that more and more pre-80s content will undeniably slip into cultural irrelevance. Even decent chunks of established properties like the fantastic four.

If comic readers continue (which we will need for them to even know about and want to collect the art) there WILL be more readers of series like Sandman, Preacher, Y the last man, The Walking Dead & Invincible. Series that were made for adults. How many new readers are going to go back and read the original FF run from the 1960s? Or care enough about esoteric comic strips with characters no one remembers. We refined collectors can appreciate it, but without the nostalgia of growing up with it each and every one of those properties competes with newer, fresher content that was produced for mature readers and has a higher liklihood of being picked up by newer generations.

The older the property the harder it will be to remain relevant. Some pieces will cling on and retain historical importance (obviously). But this gap will widen. For every cool Kirby piece I see or an older random Marvel cover that goes for tens of thousands, my mind goes to spreading that out (as much as possible) into the above properties. And yet, already choice pieces (and many pieces at that) from a series like Sandman has it's modern day demand at an all time high. Look at what an early Sandman page brings in compared to some early Marvel art! And being newer but being able to compete with older more established properties bc it was made for mature readers.... 

[batman_fan]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:51 PM, tth2 said:

Charles Schulz Peanuts sucks, it's an old comic strip about old characters that only old fogeys remember, with an old school art style that no one under the age of 60 can appreciate. 

Buying this piece would basically be dead money, especially when there are so many pieces by Liefeld, McFarlane and Lee in this auction that are much more relevant to the demographic that drives the OA hobby.

Look at the piece with properly modern disdain and then just walk away.

Fact check: True

People should avoid losing money by buying Schulz works.

[tth2]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:33 PM, Phill the Governor said:

How many new readers are going to go back and read the original FF run from the 1960s? Or care enough about esoteric comic strips with characters no one remembers.

 

On 11/14/2023 at 9:33 PM, Phill the Governor said:

The older the property the harder it will be to remain relevant.

I like the cut of your jib! 

[KirbyCollector]

On 11/14/2023 at 8:33 AM, Phill the Governor said:

Sandman, Preacher, Y the last man, The Walking Dead & Invincible

Depressing, depressing, depressing, REALLY depressing and a superhero with a genocidal father. But you do you -- just don't forget the Prozac.

[batman_fan]

I find a lot of the new material to be really bad

Sandman = terrible artwork and a pretty goofy story line

Walking Dead = Gilligan’s Island with Zombies with horrendous artwork.  Every episode has the same theme, someone does something stupid and then other people have to save them.  Everyone gets all excited at the latest stupid thing someone does.

I am not familiar with Preacher and Y.

[comix4fun]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:51 AM, batman_fan said:

I find a lot of the new material to be really bad

Sandman = terrible artwork and a pretty goofy story line

Walking Dead = Gilligan’s Island with Zombies with horrendous artwork.  Every episode has the same theme, someone does something stupid and then other people have to save them.  Everyone gets all excited at the latest stupid thing someone does.

I am not familiar with Preacher and Y.

Y: The Last Man is the long form equivalent of Lucy Pulling the Football away from Charlie Brown...with Lucy as the Virus, Charlie Brown as the planet earth, and the Ball as almost every creature with a Y Chromosome.  

[batman_fan]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:56 AM, comix4fun said:

Y: The Last Man is the long form equivalent of Lucy Pulling the Football away from Charlie Brown...with Lucy as the Virus, Charlie Brown as the planet earth, and the Ball as almost every creature with a Y Chromosome.  

Now that I can understand.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:51 AM, batman_fan said:

I find a lot of the new material to be really bad

Sandman = terrible artwork and a pretty goofy story line

Walking Dead = Gilligan’s Island with Zombies with horrendous artwork.  Every episode has the same theme, someone does something stupid and then other people have to save them.  Everyone gets all excited at the latest stupid thing someone does.

I am not familiar with Preacher and Y.

Sandman finished its original run in 1996; Preacher in 2000.

wouldn’t exactly classify them as ‘new material’

[batman_fan]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:59 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Sandman finished its original run in 1996; Preacher in 2000.

wouldn’t exactly classify them as ‘new material’

You young whipper snappers

Now get off my lawn

[mlansdown]

On the opposite side of the cultural relevance scale, I collect Buster Brown and Yellow Kid material. I'm obviously doing this collecting thing wrong.

[Phill the Governor]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:26 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Depressing, depressing, depressing, REALLY depressing and a superhero with a genocidal father. But you do you -- just don't forget the Prozac.

 

On 11/14/2023 at 11:51 AM, batman_fan said:

I find a lot of the new material to be really bad

Sandman = terrible artwork and a pretty goofy story line

Walking Dead = Gilligan’s Island with Zombies with horrendous artwork.  Every episode has the same theme, someone does something stupid and then other people have to save them.  Everyone gets all excited at the latest stupid thing someone does.

I am not familiar with Preacher and Y.

 

All good. I think more refined readers & art collectors like series that have a human element to them.  In my opion it's why stories like Infinity Gauntlet/Thanos Quest and titles like Strangers in Paradise were so well received at the time, why underground art like Crumb is so desirable, or why a title like the Walking Dead became the cultural juggernaut that it did. These made you think about humanity and being a person and they resonate today because of reasons beyond youthful nostalgia or historical importance.

For the most part we're all products of our generation. But we don't necessarily see when we're the old guy yelling to get off our lawn, just when other people are doing it. So much so that when pressed for why we dislike something, the answer is usually "I didn't waste my time trying it, I just know what it is- and I don't like it!". It's easiest to play it safe since many of us are afraid to try new things. And so ultimately it's easier to collect one artist or one character and write off the rest. I get it.

[Sideshow Bob]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:24 PM, mlansdown said:

On the opposite side of the cultural relevance scale, I collect Buster Brown and Yellow Kid material. I'm obviously doing this collecting thing wrong.

Does it have to have a color in the name for you to collect it? 

[KirbyCollector]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:29 PM, Phill the Governor said:

But we don't necessarily see when we're the old guy yelling to get off our lawn, just when other people are doing it. So much so that when pressed for why we dislike something, the answer is usually "I didn't waste my time trying it, I just know what it is- and I don't like it!". It's easiest to play it safe since many of us are afraid to try new things. And so ultimately it's easier to collect one artist or one character and write off the rest. I get it.

That's not it at all. I've read all of the material you cited and found the inherent themes of blackness, nihilism and despair without redemption the antithesis of what monthly comics should be. The comics of the 60s were largely created by those who rejected the horrors of WW2 and infused comics with a spirit of optimism -- and this came through most loudly at the hands of Jewish creators such as Stan and Jack. It is no surprise that the steady erosion of that original spirit since the late 80s has coincided with the precipitous decline of comics readership in the US; comics just aren't very "fun" anymore, and you don't have to be over 50 to see it.

Edited November 14, 2023 by KirbyCollector

[mlansdown]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:35 AM, Sideshow Bob said:

Does it have to have a color in the name for you to collect it? 

Hmmm.  I also love Four Color comics.  You might be on to something...

[batman_fan]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:24 AM, mlansdown said:

On the opposite side of the cultural relevance scale, I collect Buster Brown and Yellow Kid material. I'm obviously doing this collecting thing wrong.

Some collectors have outstanding taste and a keen eye for quality. 

[inscrutable]

my dudes, just collect what makes you happy

[Rick2you2]

On 11/14/2023 at 4:37 PM, inscrutable said:

my dudes, just collect what makes you happy

Absolutely.

[Bronty]

While that’s good advice for some I  think there’s more to it for a lot of people.   First of all the wheeling and dealing can help people collect more of what they like if they manage it well, but more to the point… for some people, and to varying degrees, the wheeling and dealing itself is what makes them happy as much or more than the items themselves.

Different people collect in different ways and there’s no one size fits all answer… not even ‘collect what you like.’   I think collect HOW you like is closer to the heart of the matter.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bronty

[inscrutable]

ok fair: my dudes, participate and engage in the original comic art hobby in the manner which brings you personal satisfaction and dw about other people being into stuff that you are not*

 

*unless yelling at those people is the thing that brings you personal satisfaction i guess, you do you 👍 

Edited November 14, 2023 by inscrutable

[Phill the Governor]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:59 PM, KirbyCollector said:

That's not it at all. I've read all of the material you cited and found the inherent themes of blackness, nihilism and despair without redemption the antithesis of what monthly comics should be. The comics of the 60s were largely created by those who rejected the horrors of WW2 and infused comics with a spirit of optimism -- and this came through most loudly at the hands of Jewish creators such as Stan and Jack. It is no surprise that the steady erosion of that original spirit since the late 80s has coincided with the precipitous decline of comics readership in the US; comics just aren't very "fun" anymore, and you don't have to be over 50 to see it.

 

Well thank god 1960's feel-good Marvel (no matter how much I do like it)isn't what the genre, or a monthly comic book for that matter, is defined by.

When the demographic of readers shifted from kids to adults, the writers had to adapt. Mature readers aren't as impressed with a compressed story into one issue as they are with a multiple issue arc with adult themes and character development. I don't care about a spirit of optimism, I'm looking for a groundbreaking story that lets me escape my daily life. The first time I read Preacher and Jesse spit on Gods face my reality was shattered and everything I thought I knew about comic books went out the window. Then when Carl killed Shane, and when Omni-Man's origin reveal happened my jaw was on the floor.

I'm really not sure how you'd get nihilism and despair without redemption from Sandman, Y, TWD, Preacher, Invincible, etc.. but to each their own.