Revisiting NEW GODS 0

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:19 PM, Prince Namor said:

Kirby really started to kick things into gear with #5, but now, we're about to get two of the best issues back to back of the whole series...

#6 has been a favorite of mine for years!

[Zonker]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:48 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

#6 has been a favorite of mine for years!

It's in my personal Top Five for the entire Fourth World series.  "The Pact," then "Himon," then a few are neck & neck vying for the next spot, including "The Glory Boat." 

[aardvark88]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:44 PM, Zonker said:

It's in my personal Top Five for the entire Fourth World series.  "The Pact," then ....

+1. First used comic I bought with my own money was Mr. Miracle #2 from a used comic and porno shop in Canada.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1971

New Gods #7 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Mike Royer)

Kirby followed up one of his greatest stories with yet another home run in 'The Pact', the origin of Orion and Scott Free... it just boggles my mind how shortsighted DC Comics was to not see what they had on their hands. To NOT understand how the price increase was playing a part in the entire LINE slipping in sales. It's understandable they weren't aware of the affidavit fraud going on - the greed of the aftermarket (speculators) wasn't a concept most anyone was aware of in 1971 - but still doesn't explain their inability to see what they had here.

Kirby was just too far ahead of everyone else...

Again, I'd LIKE to credit Stan Lee for having the foresight to keep the Fantastic Four going, even though the numbers weren't comparable to any of the best sellers of other publishers - but of course, he had incentive... he was being paid for writing that he wasn't doing. 

The sad history of comics...

Part ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1971

New Gods #7 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

In Issue #9, we can see the reaction to Issue #7...

[Zonker]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:02 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

 

Quote

it just boggles my mind how shortsighted DC Comics was to not see what they had on their hands.

It's a very small thing, but it has always bothered me that DC let this story go out with the top of young Orion's head completely un-colored.  Maybe it wasn't clear whether Jack intended Orion to be bald on top, or instead to have a full head of red hair.  But make a choice people, rather than passively-aggressively leaving it unfinished white for multiple panels over the final two pages.  Something similar happened on the cover of Mister Miracle #3, where for no known reason the main character's costume is left completely white.  You almost wonder if some folks at DC wanted Jack to fail.  He's the Marvel guy, right?  And he gets to mail his work in from the West Coast, at a time when remote work was unheard of, and New York was the publishing center of the universe. So, they couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone and work out whatever questions they may have had about the coloring? 

 

 

[Dr. Haydn]

Orion looks like he was supposed to be bald (previous page, second to last panel--see below). But then the following panel (and the three on the final page), it seems that the colorist wasn't sure what to do.

[Zonker]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:50 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

Orion looks like he was supposed to be bald (previous page, second to last panel--see below). But then the following panel (and the three on the final page), it seems that the colorist wasn't sure what to do.

Yes, they fixed it subsequently in reprints.  Orion really couldn't have been anything but bald given the lines that Kirby drew. Maybe the bushy eyebrows in the last panel of pg 23 could have been turned into a full head of red hair.  But I think the panels on pg 24 would have looked ridiculous if the colorist had gone with a redhaired scalp. 

[shadroch]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:39 PM, Zonker said:

It's a very small thing, but it has always bothered me that DC let this story go out with the top of young Orion's head completely un-colored.  Maybe it wasn't clear whether Jack intended Orion to be bald on top, or instead to have a full head of red hair.  But make a choice people, rather than passively-aggressively leaving it unfinished white for multiple panels over the final two pages.  Something similar happened on the cover of Mister Miracle #3, where for no known reason the main character's costume is left completely white.  You almost wonder if some folks at DC wanted Jack to fail.  He's the Marvel guy, right?  And he gets to mail his work in from the West Coast, at a time when remote work was unheard of, and New York was the publishing center of the universe. So, they couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone and work out whatever questions they may have had about the coloring? 

 

 

Wasn't DC hiring a bunch of Filipino artists at this time? Weren't they all working remotely?

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:41 AM, shadroch said:

Wasn't DC hiring a bunch of Filipino artists at this time? Weren't they all working remotely?

DeZuniga, Redondo, and Talaoc were the first wave in 1971 (per Wikipedia). I believe Carmine Infantino convinced them to relocate to the US, once he realized there was a motherlode of untapped talent over there.

[Zonker]

I'm pretty sure DeZuniga was living in New York City when he started working for DC, and he was largely responsible for opening the doors to the talent available back home in the Philippines. No doubt those artists were also resented by the States-side talent, as reportedly they were used to working for about 1/10th of what USA artists were being paid.  But because of the economics, I'd bet the folks running DC went out of their way to make it work.  So maybe Jack should have had a DC editor to advocate for him and run interference for him back in New York.  I know he wanted complete control of his work, but in the end, he didn't get it, having to accommodate publisher Carmine Infantino's ideas (generally not for the better!) Perhaps things would have turned out better if he had a New York editor like Joe Orlando as his sponsor back at headquarters.  

[shadroch]

Tony's Ds wiki pages are confusing.  It says he moved to NY in the late 60s, but then it says he moved back to NY in 1975. I remember a DC letter page discussing that the artist lived in the Philippines, which made communication difficult. 

I don't think anyone disputes Kirby's work would have been better with an editor who "got" him" and maybe tweaked some of his wilder ideas.

[Prince Namor]

On 10/17/2023 at 10:58 AM, Zonker said:

I'm pretty sure DeZuniga was living in New York City when he started working for DC, and he was largely responsible for opening the doors to the talent available back home in the Philippines. No doubt those artists were also resented by the States-side talent, as reportedly they were used to working for about 1/10th of what USA artists were being paid.  But because of the economics, I'd bet the folks running DC went out of their way to make it work.  So maybe Jack should have had a DC editor to advocate for him and run interference for him back in New York.  I know he wanted complete control of his work, but in the end, he didn't get it, having to accommodate publisher Carmine Infantino's ideas (generally not for the better!) Perhaps things would have turned out better if he had a New York editor like Joe Orlando as his sponsor back at headquarters.  

Kirby probably had to give Editor kick backs to DC in the 50's as others did and then of course Schiff tried to abuse it and he Kirby got hammered in court - setting the stage for letting Stan Lee take credit and pay for his writing during the 60's.

Jack probably felt he'd earned a place above it by 1970 and his return to DC, but in actuality it left him unprotected.

Of course editors wanted to give him work for kick backs in the 50's and of course Stan would keep books in print that Kirby worked on in the 60's, because as editor Lee got paid extra for the work Kirby did. 

No such luck in 1970.

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:57 AM, Zonker said:

Yes, they fixed it subsequently in reprints.  Orion really couldn't have been anything but bald given the lines that Kirby drew. Maybe the bushy eyebrows in the last panel of pg 23 could have been turned into a full head of red hair.  But I think the panels on pg 24 would have looked ridiculous if the colorist had gone with a redhaired scalp. 

That was pretty good dialogue. Jack didn`t need Stan for dialogue. It`s becoming clearer and clearer that Stan needed Jack more.  

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:01 PM, Prince Namor said:

 

ON NEWSSTANDS DECEMBER 1971

New Gods #7 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Mike Royer)

Kirby followed up one of his greatest stories with yet another home run in 'The Pact', the origin of Orion and Scott Free... it just boggles my mind how shortsighted DC Comics was to not see what they had on their hands. To NOT understand how the price increase was playing a part in the entire LINE slipping in sales. It's understandable they weren't aware of the affidavit fraud going on - the greed of the aftermarket (speculators) wasn't a concept most anyone was aware of in 1971 - but still doesn't explain their inability to see what they had here.

Kirby was just too far ahead of everyone else...

Again, I'd LIKE to credit Stan Lee for having the foresight to keep the Fantastic Four going, even though the numbers weren't comparable to any of the best sellers of other publishers - but of course, he had incentive... he was being paid for writing that he wasn't doing. 

The sad history of comics...

Part ONE:

Powerful art by Kirby. It explodes off the pages! 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:01 PM, Prince Namor said:

it just boggles my mind how shortsighted DC Comics was to not see what they had on their hands.

I love Carmine Infantino`s art and what he contributed to the comic book industry, but yeah he fell asleep at the wheel when it came to pulling the plug early on Kirby`s New Gods books.

Edited October 17, 2023 by The humble Watcher lurking

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1972

New Gods #8 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Mike Royer)

Kirby jumps right back into real time with immediate action - this is an issue that somehow evaded the Comics Code, as the action is pretty brutal for a comic book in 1972..

Part ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1972

New Gods #8 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]