Can someone explain this ComicConnect Auction “coincidence” 5 5

[Senormac]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:35 AM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Not sure about this one. I had this on eBay as well. Very last second a bid comes in right under mine, so 

I clicked BigLeague but only the ebay home page came up. 

Good word Roy.  I don't know if there is any stopping it now.  The stone is rolling downhill.  TV may have been the beginning, but the computer and cell phone have completed the transformation.  Connect to the beast, let your brain be your persona, talk, buy sell everything online.  Reminds me so much of The Mattrix movie.  We like batteries. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Senormac
to many "the" in a row. Can't have that

[VintageComics]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:59 PM, Senormac said:

Good word Roy.  I don't know if there is any stopping it now.  The stone is rolling downhill.  TV may have been the beginning, but the computer and cell phone have completed the transformation.  Connect to the beast, let your brain be your persona, talk, buy sell everything online.  Reminds me so much of The Mattrix movie.  We like batteries. 

Everything always ends eventually. 

Then the pendulum swings the other way and it happens all over again. Repeat for eternity. 

Thus it always was, thus it always will be.

How you manage that pendulum swing is what matters but most seem to be focused on their own agendas and completely ignoring the big picture. 

Things CAN change. Things DO change. But it only happens when EVERYONE starts speaking up.

Until then NOTHING changes. 

[lou_fine]

On 10/18/2023 at 4:50 PM, mikenyc said:

 It’s not like the price slowly moved upward as bidders participated, it went from way under my max  to exactly max bid on the next bid. 

Another serious question here..........was you actually online watching the end of the bids for the books that you won with your max bids?  

Because it's quite possible that you might not understand how the bidding process works on each of these various auction sites, especially since they DO NOT necessarily always go up by just the one bid increment if another bidder has placed a bid that is multiple increments higher than the previous high bid.  It should aso be pointed out that the clock does not necessarily reset for the full 3 minutes as it resets everytime there is an additional bid.  So, it's quite possible that there might be multiple bids which would automatically trigger higher bids within the 3-minute extended bidding time period(s) until it hits your max bid.  

It's probably best for you to provide us with an actual example of one of these max bid books you won and what you think the previous bid was and the time left in the auction before it hit whatever your max bid was.  Otherwise, it probably didn't happened the way you ASSUMED it happened, especially if you was not online watching the actual end of the auction for that book.  

[Mmehdy]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:07 AM, lou_fine said:

Another serious question here..........was you actually online watching the end of the bids for the books that you won with your max bids?  

Because it's quite possible that you might not understand how the bidding process works on each of these various auction sites, especially since they DO NOT necessarily always go up by just the one bid increment if another bidder has placed a bid that is multiple increments higher than the previous high bid.  It should aso be pointed out that the clock does not necessarily reset for the full 3 minutes as it resets everytime there is an additional bid.  So, it's quite possible that there might be multiple bids which would automatically trigger higher bids within the 3-minute extended bidding time period(s) until it hits your max bid.  

It's probably best for you to provide us with an actual example of one of these max bid books you won and what you think the previous bid was and the time left in the auction before it hit whatever your max bid was.  Otherwise, it probably didn't happened the way you ASSUMED it happened, especially if you was not online watching the actual end of the auction for that book.  

I will second that request....give us real data....

[Lightning55]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:35 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Not sure about this one. I had this on eBay as well. Very last second a bid comes in right under mine, so 

Was there supposed to be a link to the item?

[Phicks]

By my count, there are now 3 of us in this thread that have reported we were bidding on CC, and the final price miraculously ended up being EXACTLY our maximum bid.

Connect the dots people.  
 

Commissioner Gordon : “ Detectives aren’t allowed to believe in coincidences.”

Plain, simple, Mr Garak: “Of course I believe in coincidences, coincidences happen every day.  I just don’t trust coincidences.”

[Lightning55]

I bid on about 25 auctions every week on MCS and eBay. Almost never does it end on my maximum bid, maybe 1 or 2 per 100 bids. It ends a few increments below my max, or at least 1 increment above.

So regardless of the bidding pattern, if I had a group of bids all end at my max, like the OP did, I would know I had been shilled.

Not suspect, know.

If I had a bunch of auctions just edge out my max, that, unfortunately, is more common the case. At least, in legit auctions. 

[Asianassassincomics]

I’d also like to see an example of the max bid / winning bid coincidence. Multiple reasons why this coincidence could’ve happened without foul play. 

[Brer247i]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:38 PM, Phicks said:

By my count, there are now 3 of us in this thread that have reported we were bidding on CC, and the final price miraculously ended up being EXACTLY our maximum bid.

Connect the dots people.  
 

Commissioner Gordon : “ Detectives aren’t allowed to believe in coincidences.”

Plain, simple, Mr Garak: “Of course I believe in coincidences, coincidences happen every day.  I just don’t trust coincidences.”

Which comic and final price?

[Brer247i]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:59 PM, Lightning55 said:

I bid on about 25 auctions every week on MCS and eBay. Almost never does it end on my maximum bid, maybe 1 or 2 per 100 bids. It ends a few increments below my max, or at least 1 increment above.

So regardless of the bidding pattern, if I had a group of bids all end at my max, like the OP did, I would know I had been shilled.

Not suspect, know.

If I had a bunch of auctions just edge out my max, that, unfortunately, is more common the case. At least, in legit auctions. 

Will you provide a sample of the books you won, and the amount you paid?

[Phicks]

This one.  I bid $401 and SOMEHOW that came out to be the final price.   The $461.15 shown represents “fees”.

 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/1010444https://www.comicconnect.com/item/1010444?tzf=1

[Phicks]

And the day before I bid $133 for another book.  Fortunately, my final winning bid was only $132:

 

https://https://www.comicconnect.com/item/987408www.comicconnect.com/item/987408

[Lightning55]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:40 PM, Brer247i said:

Will you provide a sample of the books you won, and the amount you paid?

I'm not going to provide specific info, for a number of reasons, especially since it's not an issue that applies to me (yet). I'm just providing data from my own experiences, and I'm sure mine are not so unique. 

A general example would be an item that you have a max bid of $120 sitting at $60. Then right in the last seconds, a single bidder leaves the herd and bids $117, triggering your max bid. You win the auction, and you're glad you were  brave enough to bid $120, or you would have lost.

That scenario can be legit, but it doesn't happen that way very often. Like I said, quite rarely, only 1 or 2 % of the time, by my experience. At least half the time I get outbid, sometimes 90% of the time. The rest that I win are not so tight.

To have the majority of my wins hit the max would be a huge red flag for me. Instead of thinking I was lucky to win a close auction, a bunch of them occurring would give me the opposite feeling. Something's up.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Lightning55

[skypinkblu]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:50 PM, mikenyc said:

I drunkenly put in a bunch of bids on some books a couple weeks ago on ComicConnect’s current auction. Out of the 8 bids, I lost 1, won 1 $5 dollars under my max bid and the other 6 I won, but at exactly my max bid within the last 3 minutes, which would reset another 3 minutes. 
 

Am I missing something or did the other 6 books have bidders that happened to bid at the exact bid increment under my max bid, that would have triggered my max bid. It’s not like the price slowly moved upward as bidders participated, it went from way under my max  to exactly max bid on the next bid. 
 

Seems like a weird coincidence that it happened on almost every book. Have never experienced that ComicLink, Heritage, MCS, etc. 
 

Maybe don't drink and bid;) err...drive?

Nice to see you here, hope you at least loved the books you won!

I've had max bids win just about everywhere, CC is one place I don't always win....that dumb 3 minute thingy gives people time to think about really wanting the book I wanted.

[lou_fine]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:32 PM, Lightning55 said:

A general example would be an item that you have a max bid of $120 sitting at $60. Then right in the last seconds, a single bidder leaves the herd and bids $117, triggering your max bid. You win the auction, and you're glad you were  brave enough to bid $120, or you would have lost.

Don't you absolutely hate these last second bidders that decide to throw in a Hail Mary bid right at the end hoping that nobody else will do the exact same thing, only to find out that somebody else had already placed an out of the ball park bid way earlier anyways.  Must be a snipe bidder that's used to bidding based upon the CL or eBay model which I would refrain from bidding on because I absolutely hate that bidding model.  

Personally, since CC uses the 3-minute extended bidding model, I would never ever use a max bid or need to throw in a Hail Mary bid at the end and if I really wanted a book, would simply wait and bid online at the end because 3 minutes gives me lots of time to see exactly where the bidding is and then for me to make a well thought out rational decision whether to bump it up to the next increment or not.  

Now, let's see here..................you've got a multi-million dollar auction house who's going to shill your bid up by $60 just so they can make an extra $6 dollars or even less than that if the consignor is using the 15% BP option for his consignment.  Now, if I was an auction house that's partaking in shill bidding, I would certainly much rather do it to a few higher dollar books that's going to give you a much bigger bang for your buck and harder to rasie a red flag on from a consistent pattern POV, as opposed to doing it to hundreds of lower value dollar books to make up for that one bigger book and thereby raise a lot of suspicious red flags along the way.    

[Gaard]

or....

you can do it to both

[blazingbob]

On 10/22/2023 at 3:24 AM, lou_fine said:

Don't you absolutely hate these last second bidders that decide to throw in a Hail Mary bid right at the end hoping that nobody else will do the exact same thing, only to find out that somebody else had already placed an out of the ball park bid way earlier anyways.  Must be a snipe bidder that's used to bidding based upon the CL or eBay model which I would refrain from bidding on because I absolutely hate that bidding model.  

Personally, since CC uses the 3-minute extended bidding model, I would never ever use a max bid or need to throw in a Hail Mary bid at the end and if I really wanted a book, would simply wait and bid online at the end because 3 minutes gives me lots of time to see exactly where the bidding is and then for me to make a well thought out rational decision whether to bump it up to the next increment or not.  

Now, let's see here..................you've got a multi-million dollar auction house who's going to shill your bid up by $60 just so they can make an extra $6 dollars or even less than that if the consignor is using the 15% BP option for his consignment.  Now, if I was an auction house that's partaking in shill bidding, I would certainly much rather do it to a few higher dollar books that's going to give you a much bigger bang for your buck and harder to rasie a red flag on from a consistent pattern POV, as opposed to doing it to hundreds of lower value dollar books to make up for that one bigger book and thereby raise a lot of suspicious red flags along the way.    

Why do you assume that the book is "consigned" and not owned by the auction house?  If owned every shill bid is money in their pocket if owned.  

[NP_Gresham]

Well I for one am going with ‘just a coincidence’ …… unless it’s not …,,,

[shadroch]

 

I had a similar problem with a small auction. There was absolute proof they were bidding stuff up to my max bid.

I reported them to proxybid, but they seemed more concerned that I didn't pay for the items than the auction house ripping people off.  This was two years ago, and the place still does weekly auctions on proxybid.  I no longer use either the auction house or proxybid .  

Edited October 22, 2023 by shadroch

[alexgross.com]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:57 AM, blazingbob said:

Why do you assume that the book is "consigned" and not owned by the auction house?  If owned every shill bid is money in their pocket if owned.  

precisely. as i said yesterday, an auction house owned by a major comic book dealer is a conflict of interest. depending on the structure of the two businesses, it may even be totally kosher for metro to bid on and buy books in cc auctions. although having access to our bids is almost surely not kosher.

perhaps some of you think the former employee on here who alleged that metro shills most or all of cc's stuff was just disgrunled. ok.

i've had this exact scenario on HA so unfortunately if you think this is real, and i do, it does not appear exclusive to cc. and when blazing bob chimes in, i find it well worth listening to.