I am done with CGC, completely fed up! Major slab holder issue. 7 7

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It's odd really, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage that knocks and bangs can cause to a book that sits in a plastic sleeve that has room for movement and which can pinch the outer cover. When you put a book in a boarded mylar, the convex result keeps the book from moving, including the guts. As the mylar curves to the edges, it keeps the whole comic in place. The CGC inner sleeve has square edges - more like a top loader than a mylar sleeve / bag - so the chances of movement increases accordingly. When you see how postal staff treat packages, it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back to its submitter. 

Look how much movement is possible within the inner sleeve that CGC put BigLeague's book in. ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. Thje book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage. I don't see 'shaken case syndrome' there. I see badly designed case syndrome. Am I being unreasonable? Look at the room for movement around that comic.

You are 100% correct. There should be no room for movement at all. The CGC old holder, and when they actually cared, had this. As you can see how import it is to have the comic secured and prevent movement.

 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 10/22/2023 at 2:54 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

@BigLeagueCHEW

So sorry to see that. Have you contacted CGC about it? Though it's no comfort to you, these things are going to happen as long as CGC continue to operate this way. What are they going to do for you, to make it right? 

I'll PM you

[Dr. Balls]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:32 AM, The Lions Den said:

There's always the possibility that something traumatic can happen, even when a wedge is used. They're designed to keep the book from moving around inside the well, but they're simply not built to withstand severe impacts such as those that can happen during the shipping process. They are, after all, just thin strips of plastic...

Is there really any way to make a comic survive a major drop or impact? I'd have to surmise that the OP's book was dropped/tossed from a significant height. I'm not an engineer, but if you have several materials snugly pressed together and you drop them all as one unit: the weakest of the material is going to give - which would be the outermost layer of paper of the book, and I'd imagine you could even factor in the fact that the cover is a glossy paper stock and offers less resistance when touching against the pulpier, toothier paper stock of the inside of the book.

You have the laws of motion and the laws of impact working here. I don't know if it's something that requires better engineering, or something that happens because of poor handling - or a concentrated effort by both parties to do better at their jobs. While I think a person can blame CGC for the frequency of this happening, but it might need to be looked at that shippers are mishandling packages at an extremely higher rate than they were 5 years ago. It's a huge problem, and really gives people a sour taste - I'm sorry @BigLeagueCHEW - that just sucks.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[BigLeagueCHEW]

Here is a prime example of how the holder should keep the comic intact via a hard impact. As you can see there is no staple tear with this one because it is secured in the holder.

 

Ebay Link

 

Adding photos in case the listing is archived/removed/deleted in the eBay system.

 

Staple and cover are fine:

 

[alexgross.com]

@CGC Mike

[The Lions Den]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Look how much movement is possible within the inner sleeve that CGC put BigLeague's book in. ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage. The tightness will hold the covers in place, with the guts free to move up, down and to the right within the sleeve space.

Exactly.  

[Robot Man]

The cheaper slabs and lack of micro chamber paper are nothing more than cost cutting measures on CGC’s part. As if they aren’t making an insane amount of money from a captive market already.

I am very happy with my books in double Mylar and a heavy Fullback. Very bright, clear and secure. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 4:40 PM, Robot Man said:

The cheaper slabs and lack of micro chamber paper are nothing more than cost cutting measures on CGC’s part. As if they aren’t making an insane amount of money from a captive market already.

I tagged CGC Mike earlier today for an update on the micro chamber position but he didn't respond. He did find time to make a detailed post about moderating Roy though, which no one tagged him about. It's all about priorities, isn't it.

On 10/22/2023 at 4:40 PM, Robot Man said:

I am very happy with my books in double Mylar and a heavy Fullback. Very bright, clear and secure. 

Exactly. There's a reason why the phrase "shaken book in a double mylar and heavy fullback syndrome" never caught on.

[RedRaven]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:56 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Exactly. There's a reason why the phrase "shaken book in a double mylar and heavy fullback syndrome" never caught on.

I feel as if there is a sublime white-boy rap gestating in that phrase.

[namisgr]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:56 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I tagged CGC Mike earlier today for an update on the micro chamber position but he didn't respond.

Not surprising considering that it's the weekend AND he'll need input from his superiors that's considered by them to be acceptable to post.

Holder design issues have been troublesome since the advent of the company.  When a book is too loose, it can move around and its edges and corners can bang against edges and corners of the inner well, risking damage.  When a book is too tight, a sharp acceleration-deceleration that would normally make the entire book move instead can cause the interior to pull away from the cover, risking damage.  On top of those concerns is the Newton ring problem, which is worsened when the pressure is too tight between the inner well and outer case.

I'm with Bob/Robot-Man in preferring mylar and acid free and buffering backing board for archival preservation.

Edited October 22, 2023 by namisgr

[MAR1979]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It's odd really, isn't it. The overwhelming majority of slabbed books will undergo a shipping event at some point, and yet we're always shocked and appalled at the damage that knocks and bangs can cause to a book that sits in a plastic sleeve that has room for movement and which can pinch the outer cover. When you put a book in a boarded mylar, the convex result keeps the book from moving, including the guts. As the mylar curves to the edges, it keeps the whole comic in place. The CGC inner sleeve has square edges - more like a top loader than a mylar sleeve / bag - so the chances of movement increases accordingly. When you see how postal staff treat packages, it's a wonder that any slabbed comic survives the journey from CGC back to its submitter. 

Look how much movement is possible within the inner sleeve that CGC put BigLeague's book in. ASM #300 is a double sized comic, so there was likely some pinching of the covers. The book was likely tight in the sleeve. It's a near certainty therefore that any knock will result in that damage. The tightness will hold the covers in place, with the guts free to move up, down and to the right within the sleeve space. I don't see 'shaken case syndrome' there. I see badly designed case syndrome. Am I being unreasonable? Look at the room for movement around that comic.

Almost like a Mylar w/proper Board should be inside the encapsulation.

As long as there is no viable competition it sadly won't get better folks. The sole way to show CGC you truly mean business is to purchase only raw books or CB*S slabs and only submit to C*CS.  Which ain't ever going to happen - right?

Edited October 22, 2023 by MAR1979

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:09 PM, namisgr said:

Not surprising considering that it's the weekend AND he'll need input from his superiors that's considered by them to be worthy of posting.

Good for you for sticking up for him, but he's a paid employee and is either working today by design or not. He sent the micro-chamber request to his superiors last Wednesday. If he's going to log on on a Sunday and post about his moderation of Roy, when no one online has invited him to do so, then he opens himself up to the comment I made which was actually 75% tongue in cheek. No one is interested in Roy apart from Roy and Mike as far as I can see, unless you can think of anyone else off the top of your head? I'd prefer he dealt with matters that CGC members are interested in, if he's going to log on on a Sunday. And of course, there's nothing to stop him quickly posting "not yet Steve", is there? 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:15 PM, MAR1979 said:

Almost like a Mylar w/proper Board should be inside the encapsulation.

[namisgr]

I feel your dismay.  But I'm not sticking up for anyone in pointing out the reality that Mike will require input from those whose schedules he doesn't control to answer the question posed here.  I would expect a response by Monday or Tuesday, though, and would certainly share your consternation if one weren't posted by then.

The same can be said for the matter of microchamber paper, and which current submissions are or are not getting it in their encapsulations.

If I were still submitting a bunch of books to CGC for grading and slabbing, there are a whole host of issues that would concern me, and likely limit my business.  Slab damage is certainly a main concern. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by namisgr

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:21 PM, namisgr said:

I feel your dismay.  But I'm not sticking up for anyone in pointing out the reality that Mike will require input from those whose schedules he doesn't control to answer the question posed here.  I would expect a response by Monday or Tuesday, though, and would certainly share your consternation if one weren't posted by then.

Prepare to be consternated!

[Galen130]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:22 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Prepare to be consternated!

Ooooohhhhhh….consternated!!  I thought you said something else. 

[namisgr]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:24 PM, Galen130 said:

Ooooohhhhhh….consternated!!  I thought you said something else. 

More fiber can help that, I hear.  

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:25 PM, namisgr said:

More fiber can help that, I hear.  

 

I was just about to respond "well, he is full of it sometimes" 

[Galen130]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:26 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

 

I was just about to respond "well, he is full of it sometimes" 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:34 PM, Galen130 said:

 

Not you, him! God Almighty.